Recording Pogroms Against Religious Minorities in India

[scrumpy]

imam bhukhri is not pakistani.....false flag!!!

Is it anti-Pakistani to point out the hypocrisy?

There is an old saying about people in glass houses throwing stones at others.

 

[gamma]

Now, I am beginning to wonder if Pakistani establishment pays these people for writing this articles.
Anyway, I have come across a few sites where the sole purpose of sites is to radicalise Muslims against the Majority on religious lines, whoever in their respective countries like say Hindus in India, Buddhists in Thailand, Christians in Nigeria, in some cases against the minorities like Hindus in Bali and Bangladesh, Buddhists in Malaysia so on..
The Propaganda is subtle and incremental with time after establishing and reinforcing the Muslim Identity. They use Gujrat riots, Babri Masjid and Kashmir in India, denial of religious rights (Shariah) and claim persecution by Monarchy in Thailand, elaborate Conspiracies Theories in Nigeria so on.. They omit details like Gujrat Riots had a vast number of non Muslim Victims and were triggered by a Muslim Youth killing non Muslim Pilgrims which is against Islamic law, which they don't mention.

As one can observe, the idea is to create a victim Psyche among Muslims and make them self segregate in the society and possibly get a few recruits for further conspiracies which in turn (insha'allah) trigger further communal riots and tensions. And keep the cycle go on until, one fully radicalises the Muslim Population cutting across the sectarian divide against the non-Muslim Majority.

Apparently, many Muslim Propagandists do this consciously and cite the story of Mohammed in Mushrik controlled Mekkah, a supposed 13 year persecution by Arab Pagans. Even Quran refers to Mecca as "mother of all settlements". Notice the word settlement, as in the settlement of the believers or Muslims. Quran, if read in that perspective, is a best Political Geography resettlement Book. Propagandists claim that Its a standard template as willed by Allah that:
Islam enters> Muslims shall be minority> persecution by non-muslims> later raise against "injustice">subdue the non-muslims>Feel merciful

As per the Islamists, its important that they have a conflict between Muslims and non-muslims going on, when they are in Minority. In fact, only conflict strengthens the Islamic Brotherhood , understandably so. Hence, the title "religion of Conflict" as opposed to Religion of Peace.

we will never see any reconciliation attempts by Politically active observant Muslims. Such people mostly look to capitalise on the conflict and gain political mileage. That's why Muslim Political leaders always appear divisive in politics wherever they are and establish. "We Muslims and You Non-Muslims are 'treating' us bad" routine. if one looks back at partition, Ideally, after being Politically strong for about 6 centuries in India before British, Muslims should not feel that they were "persecuted"(or will be) by Hindus in India especially the elite. But the Muslim elite was the most active force in Partition barring a few. One can clearly spot the operating lingo of Muslim leaders like "Protecting the interests of Muslims" and Muslims can never live with Hindus, different history etc., as if they are special group among Indians. Today, we see articles by them about Indus valley being in Pakistan, having Hindu/Buddhist past etc., after failing as a state and realising that while Muslim Population of India is increasing from 8 to 15 in 60 years, Hindu Population decreases from 10 to 1 in the country that's supposed to the Minority heaven. And we still get immigrants from Bangladesh and Pakistan even Muslims.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

If Hindu-India was horrifically oppressing Sikhs in 1984, why were their PM Indira's personal bodyguards Sikh?

IB,

Let's be honest here!

Are you denying the oppression of Sikhs during 1970s followed by Indian military attack on Sikhs' holiest shrine of Golden Temple in Amritsar? Isn't that what angered Indira's Sikh guards to seek revenge?

I absolutely condemn the attacks on Ahmadiya minority in Pakistan. Regardless of whether anyone thinks they are Muslim or otherwise, they are Pakistanis and their lives and property must be protected.

But let me ask you this?

Have you seen or heard of Pak military or security forces attacking any minority religious shrines in Pakistan?

 

[gamma]

IB,

Let's be honest here!

Are you denying the oppression of Sikhs during 1970s followed by Indian military attack on Sikhs' holiest shrine of Golden Temple in Amritsar? Isn't that what angered Indira's Sikh guards to seek revenge?

I absolutely condemn the attacks on Ahmadiya minority in Pakistan. Regardless of whether anyone thinks they are Muslim or otherwise, they are Pakistanis and their lives and property must be protected.

But let me ask you this?

Have you seen or heard of Pak military or security forces attacking any minority religious shrines in Pakistan?

I take it that you don't understand the word "Oppressed"

 

[Riyadh Haque]

If Hindu-India was horrifically oppressing Muslims in 2002, why did they elect Abdul Kalam, a Muslim, as their President that same year?

IB,

Have you ever heard the word "token"? Abdul Kalam fits that description more than any other Muslim official who has helped maintained the facade of secularism in India.

India uses these "tokens" to cover-up the horrific oppression of minorities!

 

[Bhairava]

Have you seen or heard of Pak military or security forces attacking any minority religious shrines in Pakistan?

No..I have not heard. Because no minority community has raised arms against the state of Pakistan.

The militants in Lal Masjid did and we all saw the response.

IB,

Have you ever heard the word "token"? Abdul Kalam fits that description more than any other Muslim official who has helped maintained the facade of secularism in India.

India uses these "tokens" to cover-up the horrific oppression of minorities!

In essence you will say minorities are summarily oppressed and when given examples of minority empowerment, will casually dismiss it as tokenism i.e., you will take things that fit the 'oppression' template and will discard others that do no fit the frame.#intellectualdishonesty.

 

[Imam Bukhari]

IB,

Let's be honest here!

Are you denying the oppression of Sikhs during 1970s followed by Indian military attack on Sikhs' holiest shrine of Golden Temple in Amritsar? Isn't that what angered Indira's Sikh guards to seek revenge? .........let me ask you this? Have you seen or heard of Pak military or security forces attacking any minority religious shrines in Pakistan?

Riyadh Bhai,

Bad things do happen everywhere. I am sure they happen in India, just as they do in our country. But I think you are carry things too far with all these "hyperventilating" posts of "Oppression in X Country".

As far as the Sikhs in India are concerned, an interesting fact to note amidst all of this "oppression" is that Sikhs continue to form 20% of the Army Officers in their country despite the fact that they constitute just 2% of the population. In fact, the Indian Army Officers who led the attack on the GT were themselves Sikhs; and one of them still lives under protective guard:
Operation Blue Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kuldip Singh Brar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In addition, I believe 1/3 of their President's Personal Horse-Mounted Guards were Sikhs at that time; and this general proportion still continues to this day.

To get to the subject of Honesty and to answer your question, I have to say that our Brave Army is, in general, very tolerant and never attacks innocent ethnic minorities like the Muhajirs in Karachi or the Baloch in Dera Bugti or the Pathans in Waziristan. So I was a little concerned and surprised when our Army attacked the place of worship of the minority Deobandi/Wahhabi religion and brutally killed their top spiritual leader:
Siege of Lal Masjid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Abdul Rashid Ghazi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even though the Deobandis/Wahhabis have reacted violently to this desecration of their holy place by carrying out assassinations (Musharraf is now under guard) and a campaign of violence against the government, I don’t think this is an equivalent. This is because, although the Deobandis/Wahhabis may be a minority (12%), I realize that we are all Deobandi/Wahhabis inside and these sects are not really all that distinct. In fact, I am told that the Deobandi/Wahhabis are also very tolerant and accept the majority grave-worshipping Barelvis (55%), Song-and-Dance Sufis (15%) and Mahdi-serving Shias (15%) as equally Muslim. So I suppose we could say that we are all equally just Muslim (97%) and the 3% non-Muslim minorities are generally safe in their scattered Zimmi-status houses of worship.

Dr. Akhtar from India has a different answer to your question on why our Army has never attacked violent separatist factions amongst our Christian/Hindu minorities even when they have been stockpiling arms, ammunitions & explosives in their Churches/Temples. Even though I don't agree with him, I still found his answer very interesting. You can hear what he has to say (Starts at 5:46 and 45 seconds long):

J Akhtar: Pakistan & Two-Nation Theory -1 - YouTube

And finally, here is what the majority Wahhabi/Deobandis did in 1979 when the radical Shia-inspired minority Mahdiists took over a Holy Place and used it to stock-pile arms in a violent confrontation with the State:
Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gamma]

IB,

Have you ever heard the word "token"? Abdul Kalam fits that description more than any other Muslim official who has helped maintained the facade of secularism in India.

India uses these "tokens" to cover-up the horrific oppression of minorities!

I would like to know the "oppression of Minorities" really. It's almost nauseating to read this crap over and over again. we are working our ***** so that minorities get in to the main stream and seize the opportunities by setting up special girls schools, giving away free bicycles and sending teachers to literally go to house holds beg Muslim parents to send their girl child to school so that there won't be any lagging behind and claims of oppression. And you morons accuse us of Oppression of minorities and using tokens and insult our sincere efforts. What excatly do you want from India, change it's name to DINIA and abolish constitution and bring in Shariah? what will make you feel that Hindus don't have any agenda to oppress or suppress?

 

[Imam Bukhari]

IB,

Have you ever heard the word "token"? Abdul Kalam fits that description more than any other Muslim official who has helped maintained the facade of secularism in India.

India uses these "tokens" to cover-up the horrific oppression of minorities!

Riyadh Bhai,

Up to a point, I agree with you that "tokenism" is a central feature of Indian policy on part of the Left (Congress) as well as the Right (BJP).

This is a common political strategy in many other countries, and if look closely you will see this sort of tokenism in our country also in the form of Christian Minister of Minorities (assasinated) and Hindu Chief Justice from Sindh and so on.

But there are some points that still continue to confuse me on this issue:

(1) Given the statistically under-privileged status of Indian Muslims, it is surprising that there are a very large number of these "tokens" all over the place. I sometimes wonder why Dr. Shahabuddin Yaqoob Quraishi, Ph.D., did not just declare the BJP as an unconstitutional party (as he had the power to do) and then just ban it from participating in Indian Elections.
S. Y. Quraishi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(2) Wouldn't Dr. Abdul-Kalam have known that he was merely a token window-dressing being used to maintain the hypocritical façade of Indian Secularism? Wouldn't he then have just refused the BJP nomination for President? Why do Dr. Abdul-Kalam and Dr. Najma Heptullah continue to hold these hateful right-wing bigots in such high esteem? I mean if you can see through all this façade, then why can't all these highly-educated Muslims not see that India is run by hateful bigots who want to find a "Final Solution" to the question of Indian Muslims?
Najma Heptulla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(3) Given that Dr. Abdul-Kalam must know about the horrific treatment of Muslims in India’s pseudo-secular fake-democracy, why did he turn down a chance to immigrate (like you) to the US in his younger days and choose, instead, to return to India and work for the unjust Indian Government? Why did he work so hard to become the Father of their Missile Program, when he must have known that the Hindutva fanatics could well use his missiles to kill other Muslims in neighboring countries? Where do his loyalties lie? To the Ummah Islamia or to the pseudo-secular fake democracy in India? Why can't he see through the web of Indian lies like you can?
A. P. J. Abdul Kalam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here a token. There a token. Everywhere a token.
And at the end of the day, all those tokens add up to nothing.
In both directions.'

Final Thought> It would be good if you would take a deep breadth and ask: "Could I be wrong?"

 

[Riyadh Haque]

btw i have doubt on u and ur flag why u always criticize on pakistanis only .....r u really pakistani ??from ur first post im noticing u ........

MB,

I have also noticed IB. He sometimes follows me around on this forum.

I used to think that he was a False-flagging Indian Troll. But now I am not so sure.

Some of his articles on Chowk are very patriotic. I just think that he has some kind of serious issue (almost a mental problem) about the fact that many of us Pakistanis spend too much thinking about what happens in India and not enough about what is happening in our own country.

I don't agree with him. But that is his view-- and I couldn't care less if that is what he wants to believe.

As far as I am concerned: "kauway to kaa-kaa karengay hi".

 

[Imam Bukhari]

imam bhukhri is not pakistani.....false flag!!!

Balochi Bhai,

I have been over this point before. You can look it up on my "Posts List"--
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...rs-write-iok-their-address-3.html#post3192616

 

[pk_baloch]

There is an old saying about people in glass houses throwing stones at others.

THIS STATEMENT IS APPROPRIATE FOR INDIANS ONLY .....

 

[pk_baloch]

Balochi Bhai,

I have been over this point before. You can look it up on my "Posts List"--
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...rs-write-iok-their-address-3.html#post3192616

BAHEE IB OR WHO EVER U ARE..
I HAVE SEEN MANY PEOPLE LIKE U WHO WORKS FOR INDIA IN MEDIA ,YOUTUBE, FACEBOOKS AND ONLINE NEWS ETC SO DONOT TEACH US WAT IS GOOD AND BAD FOR US .......
THANKS

 

[Imam Bukhari]

BAHEE IM OR WHO EVER U ARE..
I HAVE SEEN MANY PEOPLE LIKE U WHO WORKS FOR INDIA IN MEDIA ,YOUTUBE, FACEBOOKS AND ONLINE NEWS ETC SO DONOT TEACH US WAT IS GOOD AND BAD FOR US .......
THANKS

MastBalochi Bhai,

Baloch Person, Balochi Language. Spaniard Person, Spanish Language. No? At least that is what I learnt as a child.

In any case, I apologize if I offended you by appearing to try to "teach you what is good and bad for you". Please continue to do as you were doing before.

Although I have one small request: Would you please hit the "Caps Lock" button on the left-side of your keyboard so that the indicator light goes off before you type your posts. Badee Meherbani.

 

[baajey]

off topic : this IM guy is my hero.....not because he put some excellent points countering the some childish propaganda here, but his outlook and his rational way of thinking. He does his prep b4 posting and his mind is free of clutter from some gutter.