Rebirth of Catapult artillery system with Arjun Chassis

[gslv mk3]

The thumbs up sign is an injustice....

Eh?.............

 

[SPFG]

Don't you guys fu%king understand. BHIM is back. We had reports in January. Every sign meets -

1. Arjun Chassis
2. 2 prototypes rotting with DRDO.
3. 155/52 design lying around as denel failed JV.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Arjun chassis-

Work towards new SPGs for the IA-


Antiquated M46 system to be used-

@Abingdonboy; do not knock the venerable M-46 Field Gun/Howitzer. It has been an awesome piece of Artillery over the years. But for the fact that Gun design (not the gun itself) got out-dated. It has packed a huge punch with a range of abt 27 km which outranged the American M109 155mm at abt 15 km!
The M-46 has had some upsides apart from that: rugged design, simple and robust in operation and most of all cheap. But the downsides were: slow and cumbersome to deploy and re-deploy, lack of any power assisted systems leading to slower rates of fire and lower accuracy of ballistic computers compared to say the FH-77 Bofors.

This upgrade though a "stop-gap" will again add a lethal punch to the M-46 because of new ordnance and increased mobility. Plus improvements in fire-control because of targeting information feeds from the new Fire-Control radars/sensors in use now.

Though IMO; this upgrade should have been designed around the T-72 chassis instead. Simpler and more cost effective to execute. While the OFB designed FH-77 Bofors upgrade should be married to the Arjun Chassis. The Bofors designs incorporates far more use of Hydraulic sub-systems whose power needs could have been met adequately from the more powerful Arjun chassis.

Do not write off the M-46 yet. Generations of Topchis from the IA's Regt of Artillery still swear by its lethal punch!

 

[sancho]

I guess(guess not sure) that DRDO ATAGS will be based on M-46

I know M-46 is old but OFB is producing it for decades and it is easier for them to base ATAGS on M-46 while adding several new features to bring it on par with modern howitzers

@sancho @Capt.Popeye

We can base the truck mounted 155MM/45 cal system on M-46 too

The whole news looks more like a basic stopgap measure based on the lack of howitzers and the delays in procurments and developments. A long term solution should either be based on on OFBs modernised Bofors guns, or on those that were selected in the SPH competitions, since most of the offeres for the wheeled version, also offer the gund for the Arjun Chassis, like this example:

One could ask though, if the Arjun Chassis is still a good option, when IA at the same time says it's size and weight would restrict the MBT to a few locations of India only. Similarly, when you think about mobility, or even air transportability, there are better solutions and alternatives.

 

[IND151]

^^ truck mounted gun is better option

 

[SPFG]

This is coming to life.

Check with image you posted.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The whole news looks more like a basic stopgap measure based on the lack of howitzers and the delays in procurments and developments. A long term solution should either be based on on OFBs modernised Bofors guns, or on those that were selected in the SPH competitions, since most of the offeres for the wheeled version, also offer the gund for the Arjun Chassis, like this example:

One could ask though, if the Arjun Chassis is still a good option, when IA at the same time says it's size and weight would restrict the MBT to a few locations of India only. Similarly, when you think about mobility, or even air transportability, there are better solutions and alternatives.

@sancho it is now incredibly hard to keep track of all these different arty programs/procurements for the IA there's at least 4-6 different ones running in parrellel!


Let's just keep our fingers crossed- if all goes as planned then by 2020 the Indian artillery regiment will be amongst the most potent on the planet.

Let's pray!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

^^ truck mounted gun is better option

In all kinds of terrain? Why do you draw that conclusion?

 

[Abingdonboy]

In all kinds of terrain? Why do you draw that conclusion?

In a FEW ways ie air-mobility and weight. In some cases you just can't do without a tracked SPG.

 

[AirDefence]

bet you , nothing will happen....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

In a FEW ways ie air-mobility and weight. In some cases you just can't do without a tracked SPG.

Air-Mobility; eg is an attribute that is rarely relevant. There has to be some reason why SPGs are still 'track-mounted'?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Air-Mobility; eg is an attribute that is rarely relevant. There has to be some reason why SPGs are still 'track-mounted'?

Sir, in this day and age air-mobility is highly relevant- especially for India. Nut naturally there are things tracked SPGs can do that truck-mounted guns are just unable to do.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Sir, in this day and age air-mobility is highly relevant- especially for India. Nut naturally there are things tracked SPGs can do that truck-mounted guns are just unable to do.

Like?Truck mounted have more cross country mobility,road speed,less weight....can go to more difficult terrain.Only limitation is more vulnerable to counter battery fire than track and not NBC proof.Reason IA gave 814 motorized and only 100 mechanized howitzers tender.Track mounted will only be truly effective in open thar desert area.

 

[sancho]

@sancho it is now incredibly hard to keep track of all these different arty programs/procurements for the IA there's at least 4-6 different ones running in parrellel!


Let's just keep our fingers crossed- if all goes as planned then by 2020 the Indian artillery regiment will be amongst the most potent on the planet.

Let's pray!!

Keeping track or hoping that the selected once will be capable is one thing, what concerns me more is "when" IA finally will make some selections at all. IA's procurements are always too slow and too effected by bribery issues.

Air-Mobility; eg is an attribute that is rarely relevant. There has to be some reason why SPGs are still 'track-mounted'?

Air mobility is highly important for India for many reasons, but is not limited to wheeled or tracked base vehicles. Infact in most cases, wheeled SPHs would be transported the same way as tracked would be, the difference is only the number of them, since tracked vehicles often have bigger size and weight limitations.
On the other hand, if a good road infrastructure is available, wheeled SPHs offer many advantages, be it range, speed, more roads and bridges are useable, not to mention that they are more cot-effective to operate. The trend btw is going against tracked howitzers, at least against heavy tracked chassis like the Arjun or similar MBT chassis.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Sir, in this day and age air-mobility is highly relevant- especially for India. Nut naturally there are things tracked SPGs can do that truck-mounted guns are just unable to do.

Air-mobility is important but only upto a certain extent. It is not paramount; simply since its use is limited and the economics are also a factor. That applies primarily to Armor and Artillery. Of course, there are some things that tracked SPGs can do better than wheeled ones, That would be a more appropriate characterisation than: tracked SPGs doing what wheeled ones are unable to do.
That is is visible in the designs of the tracked SPGs themselves. They are simpler to stabilise in the firing position and obviate the need for having extendable trails or out-riggers or ground-pad stabilisation. That makes them swifter to mobilise and deploy and re-deploy vis-a-vis wheeled artillery. Other than that, the IA does not incorporate air-mobility for heavy equipment viz Armor and Heavy caliber Arty as much as the American Army does. In any case; with that parameter in mind the F-777 Arty pieces apart from 105 mm IFG/MFG are earmarked.