What's new

Ready for Chinese Checkers?

CONNAN

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
3,381
Reaction score
0
Country
India
Location
United States
Ready for Chinese Checkers? | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-09-04

Sino-Indian relations are back in public debate after the New York Times report on Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers in Gilgit-Baltistan, visa denial to Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal, General Officer Commanding in Chief (GOC-in-C), Northern Command, and on top of earlier Chinese transgressions like separate paper visas for Jammu and Kashmir residents. Were not the bilateral relations on the upswing since the handshake between Rajiv Gandhi and Deng Xiaoping in 1988?
Three successive foreign secretaries have been China experts, S.S. Menon also being the current national security adviser. Addressing the Heads of Indian Missions, Mr Menon felt that despite the pinpricks the Chinese will not opt for confrontation as they are focused on economic growth. Anticipating human or national behaviour is tricky business. On December 19, 1979, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) advised the US President that “the pace of Soviet deployments does not suggest an urgent contingency”. A week later the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Tim Weiner, in his masterly book on CIA Legacy of Ashes, comments that it was not a lack of intelligence; it was a lack of imagination.
China, since Mao Zedong’s demise in 1976, has been in a pragmatic and regenerative phase axiomatically prescribed by Deng Xiaoping for China to “disguise its ambition and hide its claws”. In 1978 China’s per capita was on par with India; by 1999 it was double. Therefore while the rise of China has been anticipated, its sudden prominence is due to the US and its European allies being militarily exhausted and financially challenged. The Chinese panda is now overnight a bear; Deng’s advice supplanted by Middle Kingdom syndrome.
The rise of China poses questions for Asia. The Economist ran a cover dubbing Sino-Indian relations as “the contest of the century”. They noted that recent Chinese behaviour has left the Sino-Indian relationship “bruised”. Martin Jacques in his book When China Rules the World, surmises that it is inevitable that China as it rises will revert to behaviour that its history and culture dictates, i.e. treating countries on its periphery in terms of a tributary-state. The countries bordering the South China Sea are already experiencing this. India, he feels, is a case apart as it too is rising. India could either concede China a permanent role in South Asia or assert itself as a regional hegemony. This is the challenge confronting India today, as China is well entrenched in Pakistan and an emerging player in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal.
The game is not new. China was determined to reclaim its historical position and thus set out from 1949 to contain rivals in Asia. The focus on India increased 1959 onwards, when India gave refuge to the Dalai Lama. A rising Japan spurned, in November 1924, the advice of provisional Chinese President Sun Yat-Sen, imparted in a speech at Kobe, that pan-Asian relations must be governed by the “rule of Right” and not by the European “rule of Might”. In November 1962, while the two superpowers were distracted by their face-off over the Cuban missile crisis, China too decided to ignore Sun Yat-Sen’s vision and attack India. It broke Jawaharlal Nehru, demoralised India and sucked the US into the South Asian affairs. President John F. Kennedy rushed military assistance to India. The price was talks with Pakistan to settle the Kashmir issue. However when Swaran Singh, minister for railways, landed in Rawalpindi for the inaugural round on December 29, 1962, he heard over the radio that China had settled its boundary in the ***************** northern areas of Kashmir, with Pakistan. A shocked US berated President Ayub Khan. While the talks had five more rounds, they basically were dead on arrival, thanks to China.
Chinese skulduggery has been a constant refrain since then, whether the clandestine assistance to Pakistan for their nuclear weaponisation or their delivery systems, or to develop the Gwadar port as a long-term asset. The second phase of the port will have 10 berths, three for special cargo and two for 200,000 tonne oil tankers. Chinese have a major interest in restoring the Karakoram highway, destroyed by landslides and perhaps upgrade it to create an integrated transport and energy corridor. Chinese foreign ministry while denying the presence of PLA in Gilgit and Baltistan refer to it as Northern Pakistan. This is an endorsement of the Pakistani construct that their Northern areas were never a part of Jammu and Kashmir. These are Shia-dominated regions, ethnically and culturally akin to Ladakh. It is regrettable that India has allowed Pakistan’s myth to go uncontested, as indeed never made an issue of the human rights abuses there. The Chinese endorsement may be a good point to commence a debate on this, as they are in breach of United Nations Security Council resolutions despite being a permanent member.
The Indian response has to be firm and multi-pronged, while recognising that for the first time China has two competing power centres, one the Populist faction led by President Hu Jintao and the other an Elitist faction led by vice-president Xi Jinping, who is to be President in 2012. How much of the hardline posturing is due to this jostling is difficult to say. India needs to fortify its defences, use the trade leverage (largely in China’s favour), reach out with calibrated deliberation to Vietnam and other association of Southeast Asian Nations members who are objects of Chinese assertiveness around the South China Sea and blacklist all Chinese companies doing business in Gilgit-Baltistan and ***************** Kashmir.
- The author is a former secretary in the external affairs ministry
 
.
I pity India which is going to loose all its accomplishment in a nonsense game of influence.
 
.
Ready for Chinese Checkers? | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-09-04

Sino-Indian relations are back in public debate after the New York Times report on Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers in Gilgit-Baltistan, visa denial to Lt. Gen. B.S. Jaswal, General Officer Commanding in Chief (GOC-in-C), Northern Command, and on top of earlier Chinese transgressions like separate paper visas for Jammu and Kashmir residents. Were not the bilateral relations on the upswing since the handshake between Rajiv Gandhi and Deng Xiaoping in 1988?
Three successive foreign secretaries have been China experts, S.S. Menon also being the current national security adviser. Addressing the Heads of Indian Missions, Mr Menon felt that despite the pinpricks the Chinese will not opt for confrontation as they are focused on economic growth. Anticipating human or national behaviour is tricky business. On December 19, 1979, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) advised the US President that “the pace of Soviet deployments does not suggest an urgent contingency”. A week later the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Tim Weiner, in his masterly book on CIA Legacy of Ashes, comments that it was not a lack of intelligence; it was a lack of imagination.
China, since Mao Zedong’s demise in 1976, has been in a pragmatic and regenerative phase axiomatically prescribed by Deng Xiaoping for China to “disguise its ambition and hide its claws”. In 1978 China’s per capita was on par with India; by 1999 it was double. Therefore while the rise of China has been anticipated, its sudden prominence is due to the US and its European allies being militarily exhausted and financially challenged. The Chinese panda is now overnight a bear; Deng’s advice supplanted by Middle Kingdom syndrome.
The rise of China poses questions for Asia. The Economist ran a cover dubbing Sino-Indian relations as “the contest of the century”. They noted that recent Chinese behaviour has left the Sino-Indian relationship “bruised”. Martin Jacques in his book When China Rules the World, surmises that it is inevitable that China as it rises will revert to behaviour that its history and culture dictates, i.e. treating countries on its periphery in terms of a tributary-state. The countries bordering the South China Sea are already experiencing this. India, he feels, is a case apart as it too is rising. India could either concede China a permanent role in South Asia or assert itself as a regional hegemony. This is the challenge confronting India today, as China is well entrenched in Pakistan and an emerging player in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal.
The game is not new. China was determined to reclaim its historical position and thus set out from 1949 to contain rivals in Asia. The focus on India increased 1959 onwards, when India gave refuge to the Dalai Lama. A rising Japan spurned, in November 1924, the advice of provisional Chinese President Sun Yat-Sen, imparted in a speech at Kobe, that pan-Asian relations must be governed by the “rule of Right” and not by the European “rule of Might”. In November 1962, while the two superpowers were distracted by their face-off over the Cuban missile crisis, China too decided to ignore Sun Yat-Sen’s vision and attack India. It broke Jawaharlal Nehru, demoralised India and sucked the US into the South Asian affairs. President John F. Kennedy rushed military assistance to India. The price was talks with Pakistan to settle the Kashmir issue. However when Swaran Singh, minister for railways, landed in Rawalpindi for the inaugural round on December 29, 1962, he heard over the radio that China had settled its boundary in the ***************** northern areas of Kashmir, with Pakistan. A shocked US berated President Ayub Khan. While the talks had five more rounds, they basically were dead on arrival, thanks to China.
Chinese skulduggery has been a constant refrain since then, whether the clandestine assistance to Pakistan for their nuclear weaponisation or their delivery systems, or to develop the Gwadar port as a long-term asset. The second phase of the port will have 10 berths, three for special cargo and two for 200,000 tonne oil tankers. Chinese have a major interest in restoring the Karakoram highway, destroyed by landslides and perhaps upgrade it to create an integrated transport and energy corridor. Chinese foreign ministry while denying the presence of PLA in Gilgit and Baltistan refer to it as Northern Pakistan. This is an endorsement of the Pakistani construct that their Northern areas were never a part of Jammu and Kashmir. These are Shia-dominated regions, ethnically and culturally akin to Ladakh. It is regrettable that India has allowed Pakistan’s myth to go uncontested, as indeed never made an issue of the human rights abuses there. The Chinese endorsement may be a good point to commence a debate on this, as they are in breach of United Nations Security Council resolutions despite being a permanent member.
The Indian response has to be firm and multi-pronged, while recognising that for the first time China has two competing power centres, one the Populist faction led by President Hu Jintao and the other an Elitist faction led by vice-president Xi Jinping, who is to be President in 2012. How much of the hardline posturing is due to this jostling is difficult to say. India needs to fortify its defences, use the trade leverage (largely in China’s favour), reach out with calibrated deliberation to Vietnam and other association of Southeast Asian Nations members who are objects of Chinese assertiveness around the South China Sea and blacklist all Chinese companies doing business in Gilgit-Baltistan and ***************** Kashmir.
- The author is a former secretary in the external affairs ministry


A very interesting column by K.C Singh, a similar column was written by Shashi Tharoor titled " Keep Your Powder Dry". They both seem to come to the same conclusion that engagement is the way forward but one should be militarily prepared.

Another interesting point that comes to attention is the competition of power between the Hu Jintao faction and Xi Jinping also known as the Princeling faction in the communist party. Xi Jinping is going to take over as the next president in 2012 when Hu steps down, all this while Jiang Zemin still remains a very powerful man in the communist party . This clearly brings to light the internal jostling for power in Beijing and could have wider ramifications for Chinese policy, as rival power centers tend to take hardline positions to convey a strong man image to increase appeal to nationalists. With multiple power centers and no clear direction things are only likely to get murky.
 
.
A very interesting column by K.C Singh, a similar column was written by Shashi Tharoor titled " Keep Your Powder Dry". They both seem to come to the same conclusion that engagement is the way forward but one should be militarily prepared.

Another interesting point that comes to attention is the competition of power between the Hu Jintao faction and Xi Jinping also known as the Princeling faction in the communist party. Xi Jinping is going to take over as the next president in 2012 when Hu steps down, all this while Jiang Zemin still remains a very powerful man in the communist party . This clearly brings to light the internal jostling for power in Beijing and could have wider ramifications for Chinese policy, as rival power centers tend to take hardline positions to convey a strong man image to increase appeal to nationalists. With multiple power centers and no clear direction things are only likely to get murky.

Actually, Xi was passed over as the vice -chairmen of the military commission. There could be trouble in the internal chinese politics. The leaders after Deng was all hand picked by Deng and the current Chinese government is an extension of the Deng regime. What will happen after his last hand pick successor retired will be interesting. It will determine how Chinese reform continue.
 
.
A very interesting column by K.C Singh, a similar column was written by Shashi Tharoor titled " Keep Your Powder Dry".

They both seem to come to the same conclusion that engagement is the way forward but one should be militarily prepared.

That sounds fair to me. :tup:

About Xi Jinping, nobody really knows if he will be the next leader of the Chinese Government or not. It's not easy to predict such things in China.
 
.
Actually, Xi was passed over as the vice -chairmen of the military commission. There could be trouble in the internal chinese politics. The leaders after Deng was all hand picked by Deng and the current Chinese government is an extension of the Deng regime. What will happen after his last hand pick successor retired will be interesting. It will determine how Chinese reform continue.

Xi was passed over as the Vice Chairman of the CMC!? So who is the Vice Chairman of the CMC now? Had read that both Jiang Zemin & Hu Jintao were trying to push their own nominees for the top job. If i am not wrong Xi is linked with Jiang Zemin right? Then who was Hu's nominee for the top job?

Could you please throw some more light over these developments. Would appreciate the information.Thanks.
 
.
That sounds fair to me. :tup:

About Xi Jinping, nobody really knows if he will be the next leader of the Chinese Government or not. It's not easy to predict such things in China.

No one wants confrontation buddy. It would be rather bad for both our respective people. It is our century now lets not fight and spoil it. Just hope that Beijing is a little more sensitive to our concerns.


BTW, which faction does Xi Jinping belong to? and can you throw some more light on these developments?
 
.
No one wants confrontation buddy. It would be rather bad for both our respective people. It is our century now lets not fight and spoil it. Just hope that Beijing is a little more sensitive to our concerns.


BTW, which faction does Xi Jinping belong to? and can you throw some more light on these developments?

india always wants confrontation. In fact an all out war is the only solution. If US stays neutral, there will be no problem in the war between China and india. india wants to invade Tibet and annex it with india.




To China's south, a senior Indian Air Force official recently disclosed that his government is upgrading another air base near the Chinese border to accommodate warplanes. According to the U.S. Defense News website, "The moves are part of the effort to strengthen India's defenses against China."

In June India approved a $3.3 billion deal to purchase 42 more Su-30 air-to-air and air-to-surface jet fighters, bringing the planned total to 272 by 2018.

Regarding a joint Russian-Indian long-range multirole jet fighter/strike fighter adaptation of the Su-30, the same Indian official said "a nuclear-armed Su-30MKI could fly deep inside China with midair refueling."

U.S.-China Conflict: From War Of Words To Talk Of War
 
.
"india always wants confrontation. In fact an all out war is the only solution. If US stays neutral, there will be no problem in the war between China and india. india wants to invade Tibet and annex it with india"?????????

Are you all right? What have you been smoking?
 
.
india always wants confrontation. In fact an all out war is the only solution. If US stays neutral, there will be no problem in the war between China and india. india wants to invade Tibet and annex it with india.
as if India cares whether u attack or not...:no:

seriously you seem to lost your mind, with all the provocations coming from China, you say it is India wanting confrontation rather China wanting it.!!
 
.
"india always wants confrontation. In fact an all out war is the only solution. If US stays neutral, there will be no problem in the war between China and india. india wants to invade Tibet and annex it with india"?????????

Are you all right? What have you been smoking?


This guy is a habitual troll, just ignore him. Lets not help him in derailing the thread.
 
.
Addressing the Heads of Indian Missions, Mr Menon felt that despite the pinpricks the Chinese will not opt for confrontation as they are focused on economic growth.

It reminds us of what Nehru and his parliament members believed in later 1950s. They dangerously believed that China was in such difficulties, politically and economically, the Chinese couldn’t afford to lose a big friend: India. Based on this assessment, Nehru executed his relentless forwarding policy, resulted in a humiliating defeat that many Indians remember today.

What a tragedy! Hope the tragedy won’t happen again.

This article is full of malicious implies urging India to pitch against China, falsely hinting that the world is so small that India and China can’t coexist, in an attempt to resurrect western rule of mighty.

India today is less hostile to China than it was 40 years ago, but it still needs to remember the history and not to be played as a western pawn, or trouble-maker.

…reach out with calibrated deliberation to Vietnam and other association of Southeast Asian Nations members who are objects of Chinese assertiveness around the South China Sea and blacklist all Chinese companies doing business in Gilgit-Baltistan and ***************** Kashmir

This is doomed to fail just as India’s “democratic alliance”.
 
.
india always wants confrontation. In fact an all out war is the only solution. If US stays neutral, there will be no problem in the war between China and india. india wants to invade Tibet and annex it with india.




To China's south, a senior Indian Air Force official recently disclosed that his government is upgrading another air base near the Chinese border to accommodate warplanes. According to the U.S. Defense News website, "The moves are part of the effort to strengthen India's defenses against China."

In June India approved a $3.3 billion deal to purchase 42 more Su-30 air-to-air and air-to-surface jet fighters, bringing the planned total to 272 by 2018.

Regarding a joint Russian-Indian long-range multirole jet fighter/strike fighter adaptation of the Su-30, the same Indian official said "a nuclear-armed Su-30MKI could fly deep inside China with midair refueling."

U.S.-China Conflict: From War Of Words To Talk Of War

I think it is little more than annexing or invading Tiben and Arunachal Perdesh.
Chinese officials need to worry more about their trade routes and their security, independently.
India alone cannot win a single skirmish with China... so India moving forward its airforce northward could be different ball game all together.
 
.
Ready for Chinese Checkers? | Deccan Chronicle | 2010-09-04

The Indian response has to be firm and multi-pronged, while recognising that for the first time China has two competing power centres, one the Populist faction led by President Hu Jintao and the other an Elitist faction led by vice-president Xi Jinping, who is to be President in 2012. How much of the hardline posturing is due to this jostling is difficult to say. India needs to fortify its defences, use the trade leverage (largely in China’s favour), reach out with calibrated deliberation to Vietnam and other association of Southeast Asian Nations members who are objects of Chinese assertiveness around the South China Sea and blacklist all Chinese companies doing business in Gilgit-Baltistan and ***************** Kashmir.
- The author is a former secretary in the external affairs ministry

This is not going to be the first time China has more than one power centers. The whole Tiananmen problem in 1989 was because the Politburo couldn't decide how to respond to the protest. After power transition from Jiang to Hu, Jiang's faction (the Shanghai Clique) was hugely influential for a long time until Hu stroke and removed Shanghai party chief Chen Liangyu. One can say Chinese leadership has never been monolithic after Mao.

I also came to the opinion the populist vs elitist analysis is too simplistic. For example, is Bo Xilai a populist or an elitist? He's one of the most prominent Princelings in Chinese politics today so that may make him elitist, but his policies in Chongqing are 100% populist.

Anyway I don't think India should be too worried about factional politics in China. Sino-Indian relation is not an emotionally-charged issue in China like Sino-U.S and Sino-Japanese relations are. As a result there's less opportunities for competing factions to play up the issue against each other.

The next ten years China is going to focus on the greatest urbanization process in human history and the Chinese leadership will have their hands full on the domestic front. There may be talks, gestures and all that stuff on geopolitical level but I doubt anything altering the status quo will happen, at least not from the Chinese side.
 
.
I think it is little more than annexing or invading Tiben and Arunachal Perdesh.
Chinese officials need to worry more about their trade routes and their security, independently.
India alone cannot win a single skirmish with China... so India moving forward its airforce northward could be different ball game all together.

India can NEVER do any harm to China other than writing anti-China bashing articles all across the internet. If India has the guts then she should declare war on China.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom