RD-93 Engine: Strength or Weakness?

[Tempest II]

So it is still at 8300 K which means 18,300 Lbs with AB... But that poster of PAF says it is more than 19,000 Lbs with AB. So what is going on??

I understand the same too. The first batch of Thunders will have the lower thrust engine. ... The next batch will have higher thrust. Two years is reasonable to get the Russian producing and PAF and China modify and test the planes controls for the higher thrust engine.

I AM JUST GLAD TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE ADDRESSING THE POWER ISSUE!

 

[IND151]

JF-17 needs 10,000 to 10,500 kg thrust engine, 8,400 kg is not enough

 

[Viper 94]

why cant we put Pratt & Whitney F100 engine in jf-17

 

[BATMAN]

JF-17 needs 10,000 to 10,500 kg thrust engine, 8,400 kg is not enough

JF-17 thrust to weight ratio is more than 1
To carry more weight it needs structural reinforcement, there are no such plans as of now!

 

[Ping]

PakShaheen79 said: ↑
So it is still at 8300 K which means 18,300 Lbs with AB... But that poster of PAF says it is more than 19,000 Lbs with AB. So what is going on??

The Afterburner Thrust is 8300kgf or 18300lbf. The 19000lbf figure is the Emergency Thrust, used for quick take-off and climbing fast. Klimov doesnt state it can be used for Dogfighting. The Ideal Emergency Thrust figure is between 19200lbf to 19400lbf, but you will get that only under workshop or factory conditions. And do note that, the 19000lbf emergency and the 18300lbf afterburner figure is the thrust of the unmated engine. Except for fighters like the MiG-29, Su-27/30/35, F-15 and fighters whose engines are exposed to direct air flow where the installed and unmated thrust are more or less the same, for all other fighters whose engines are not exposed to direct flow(JF-17 for instance) and hidden deep inside the fuselage, the installed thrust is always lesser than the unmated thrust. Its advisable not to take that 18300lbf figure as the real mated ground level thrust. 

JF-17 thrust to weight ratio is more than 1
To carry more weight it needs structural reinforcement, there are no such plans as of now!

Thrust to weigth ratio can also be 1.2. It all depends on the amount of fuel you are carrying and the weight of the ordinance.

 

[BATMAN]

 

Thrust to weigth ratio can also be 1.2. It all depends on the amount of fuel you are carrying and the weight of the ordinance.

[/QUOTE]
So what are you telling me? did you get your inquiry answered or not?
I'm talking about specs. obviously its a nominal value.

 

[Storm Force]

TWS of thunder is well blow 1 its actually 0.9

As for Russian engines though good power thry are HIGH IN MAINTENANCE & low service life compared to western engines BUT THEY ARE CHEAPER..

PUTTING AWESTERN ENGINE WOULD HAVEC ADDED $4M to each thunder unit price

 

[Basel]

TWS of thunder is well blow 1 its actually 0.9

As for Russian engines though good power thry are HIGH IN MAINTENANCE & low service life compared to western engines BUT THEY ARE CHEAPER..

PUTTING AWESTERN ENGINE WOULD HAVEC ADDED $4M to each thunder unit price

Mostly you are right but if Pakistan somehow get western engine which are well known for long service life less maintenance and better performance than their life cycle cost could be lower then Russian ones if you include all costs.

 

[Viper 94]

Mostly you are right but if Pakistan somehow get western engine which are well known for long service life less maintenance and better performance than their life cycle cost could be lower then Russian ones if you include all costs.

yeah and paf's moto has been quality over quantity
in recent year paf has been lookin for cheap solutions which compromises the quality of the air force
rd-93 is a terrible engine it is generates a lot of smoke which in a dog fight is not something you want
it is also under powered either we need to use more composites in the construction or get a more powerful engine preferably prat and Witney f-100 the same one used of f-16s that way we can reduce the maintenance training required for paf personnels

 

[Chak Bamu]

Seeing the latest Thunder video from Dubai with more maneuvers in the display routine should put to rest any concerns about Thunder being underpowered.

 

[victor07]

InAF went for a third party because of low quality of Russian engines while comparing with Western engines.

In manufacturing quality is a measure of excellence or a state of being free from defects, deficiencies and significant variations. It is brought about by strict and consistent commitment to certain standards that achieve uniformity of a product in order to satisfy specific customer or user requirements. ISO 8402-1986 standard defines quality as "the totality of features and characteristics of a product or service that bears its ability to satisfy stated or implied needs."
What is your understanding of quality and what characteristics on your opinion indicate low quality of russian engines?

 

[Viper 94]

Seeing the latest Thunder video from Dubai with more maneuvers in the display routine should put to rest any concerns about Thunder being underpowered.

did you also noticed excessive smoke coming out of the engine
thats the problem with rd-93

 

[victor07]

did you also noticed excessive smoke coming out of the engine
thats the problem with rd-93

¨A problem¨ arises when a technical system or service does not meet requirements of a customer. For example when unexpected faults lead to malfunction of a system, or some key characteristics are worse then stated in requirements. If a smoke does not indicate to one of these cases, it is NOT a problem.
But what about jf-17/rd-93 performance at for example Dubai 2011?
OMG I can not see any excessive smoke!

F-22, ef-2000, rafale, su-35 are the same smoky. For example, notice the same ¨smoke problem¨ with ef-2000 at Farnborough airshow 2012.

May be you have another evidences about the latest modification of rd-93 (sea wasp)?

 

[victor07]

TWS of thunder is well blow 1 its actually 0.9

As for Russian engines though good power thry are HIGH IN MAINTENANCE & low service life compared to western engines BUT THEY ARE CHEAPER..

PUTTING AWESTERN ENGINE WOULD HAVEC ADDED $4M to each thunder unit price

What do you mean under "low service life"?
According to JSC Klimov (developer and manufacturer) declaration, an rd-33mk modification of rd-33 engine (rd-93 is its modification for export) has the service life equal to 4,000 hours. And this modification is in production since 2001.
JSC "Klimov" - RD-33MK
And what about GE F404/F414 engines (A/F-18, Gripen, HAL Tejas)? I have not found any official information. But inofficially it is declared that high pressure turbine of this engine has service life equal to 1,850 hours, compressors and combustion chamber have service life equal to 4,000 hours.
Турбовентиляторный двигатель с форсированной тягой General
Electric F414
May be you mean reduction of a quality for probable unlicensed copies of rd-93 engines, manufactured somewhere outside Klimov's plant?

 

[trident2010]

While its true that RD-93 requires more maintenance and have less service life compared to its western counter parts but this is only a stop gap measure until the Chinese enginegets operational for JF. Engines can be changed later but having the experience of flying the bird is what it matters.