RD-93 Engine: Strength or Weakness?

[Tempest II]

It's a redesigned RD-33 engine fitted into MiG-29s. Or rather, upgraded to meet new requirements would be a better way to describe it. Either way, it takes time for technology of this complexity to mature, and the RD-33 has been around since the mid '80s. Most of its original issues should have been resolved by now. However, there is no guarantee newer ones won't appear with the RD-93. Further fine tuning of engine requirements by the PAF will certainly follow once we have experience with these engines, and so later blocks of the JF-17 will benefit from that experience. But, until then, it's difficult to speculate what problems may or may not appear.

Would you care to speculate on the difference between the RD-33 and the RD-93? ... ... I suspect there would be a difference in thrust as well considering the data we have available is for the original RD-33 and is over 20 years old.

 

[TsAr]

Good explaination given about the RD_93 engine.....I am sure when PAF decided to go with them they would have thoroughly discussed the pros and cons of the engine.....

 

[PAFAce]

Would you care to speculate on the difference between the RD-33 and the RD-93? ... ... I suspect there would be a difference in thrust as well considering the data we have available is for the original RD-33 and is over 20 years old.

Well, most likely you are correct about the thrust difference. As for the rest of it, I am in no position to comment or speculate. My guesses will be as good as anyone else. Though, if we consider the differences in the MiG-29 and the JF-17 Thunder, we might get a good idea. One thing that we know right off the bat is that the MiG-29 is twin-engined, whereas the JF-17 isn't. That tells me that the survivability requirements for the RD-93 would be greater, i.e., it will be required to be more dependable and reliable in peace and war-time operations than an individual RD-33, as there is no backup engine to pick up the slack. Twin-engined aircraft are more survivable than single-engined aircraft, because if one goes down, the other remains to get the aircraft out of harm's way and back to base. Engines which are designed to operate singularly, therefore, have to be more survivable than twins. Other changes would probably include a more modern engine control computer, more sophisticated software and electronics, and certainly a more reliable control system overall. And finally, if we consider the problems the RD-33s have had in the past, changes would have been made to rectify as many of these issues as possible.

Again, this is all speculation, and I have no proof of any of this. But, these look like plausible differences between the RD-93 and the RD-33. What do you think?

 

[ironman]

FC-20, you omitted to put a main feature in spec ie the engine life. These Russian engine has a low life (max 1500 hrs) whilst compared to the new gen Western counterparts (6000 hrs).

 

[ironman]

I hope the following article will satisfy most of the questions.

RD-33 upgrades
01/05/07

St Petersburg-based Klimov is focusing efforts on developing and upgrading the MiG-29's RD-33 turbofan and its offspring, the RD-93 for China's FC-1 single-engined fighter. A Chinese order for 100 RD-93s worth $270 million, with options for a further 400 engines, was signed in 2005. Klimov continues to work on extending the RD-93's TBO beyond the current figure of 600h.

In January Klimov signed a $250 million deal with India to set up licence production of 120 RD-33 Series 3 engines at HAL, for both new and refurbished MiG-29s. The upgraded RD-33s are scheduled to replace 18,000lb-thrust Series 1 and 2 engines.

The current production-standard RD-33MK selected for Indian navy MiG-29K/KUBs develops 20,000lb of thrust and has a 1,000h TBO. The engine has a wider-chord fan for 6% greater airflow, full-authority digital control, a new "multi-section" no-smoke combustor and three-dimensional aerodynamics in the turbine. In 2006, RSK MiG's Chernyshev plant assembled four RD-33MKs to support flight testing of the first twin-seat MiG-29KUB, which made its maiden flight in January.

Another application for the RD-33MK powerplant is the MiG-35 that MiG plans to offer for India's multi-role combat aircraft requirement. A further option is the RD-33MKV (for vectoring), which has the same thrust rating, but which is fitted with a Klimov swivelling nozzle. This is currently being tested on a MiG-29OVT technology demonstrator.

In April last year Klimov announced that it had begun design of a new engine for the LFI next-generation lightweight fighter being developed by MiG. Although MiG has yet to define all of its requirements for the engine, Klimov has said it will be an upgrade of the RD-33 with 25,300lb thrust, vectoring nozzle and modular design.

Salyut, meanwhile, plans to co-operate with Ukraine's Motor-Sich to launch production of the Ivchenko-Progress AI-222-25 turbofan to equip Yakovlev Yak-130 combat trainers.

The Russian defence ministry has selected the baseline 5,500lb-thrust AI-222-25 to power 12 initial production trainers. Algeria has ordered 16 Yak-130s powered by the engine, which is to be assembled by Salyut in Moscow.

 

[hj786]

According to Pakistan News Service - PakTribune the RD-93 has Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC), I doubt the original RD-33 would have had such a feature.

From an Alan Warnes article published in the July 2004 issue of AFM:

Air Vice Marshal Shahid Lateef, JF-17 Chief Project Director
The aircraft's powerplant will be the Klimov RD-93, a RD-33 engine with modifications to overcome some problems with the original engine.

 

[ironman]

^^^I actually mailed to Klimov officials about the spec difference but they did not respond.

 

[Tempest II]

I hope the following article will satisfy most of the questions.

RD-33 upgrades
01/05/07

St Petersburg-based Klimov is focusing efforts on developing and upgrading the MiG-29's RD-33 turbofan and its offspring, the RD-93 for China's FC-1 single-engined fighter. A Chinese order for 100 RD-93s worth $270 million, with options for a further 400 engines, was signed in 2005. Klimov continues to work on extending the RD-93's TBO beyond the current figure of 600h.

In January Klimov signed a $250 million deal with India to set up licence production of 120 RD-33 Series 3 engines at HAL, for both new and refurbished MiG-29s. The upgraded RD-33s are scheduled to replace 18,000lb-thrust Series 1 and 2 engines.

.

I believe the RD-93 has improvements along the RD-33MK. I however think it has more changes (i would not like to use the word improvements) hence they no longer call it the "33" but "93".

OK, here is the first hint that is very specific to the RD-93 concerning its thrust : http://www.kommersant.com/p717480/r_529/Russia_China_India_military/ .

China is additionally suggesting that that RD-93 be modernized and its thrust increased from 8.3 to 9 tons in order to pump up the tactical-technical specifications of the FC-1. Rosoboronexport has yet to make a decision, since the modified RD-93 has not been completely developed yet in Russia.

Now, we have already been told by Muradk that the RD-33 thrust figure we are using is lower than what the RD-93 is outputting.

 

[Hunter911]

RD-93 ,I predict that it must be gradually replaced in 5 years.
Pakistan's military leadership must be considered "independent" products,rather than worry about other countries 'blockade of the key technologies .

 

[ironman]

OK, here is the first hint that is very specific to the RD-93 concerning its thrust : Russia Chooses Between $1.5 Billion and $2 Billion - Kommersant Moscow .

Powerplant: one 49.4 kN (11,103 lb st) dry or 84.4 kN (18,969 lb st) with afterburner Klimov RD-93 turbofan
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

 

[Kamakazi 69]

The engine on later MiG-29 variants is called the RD-43.

 

[Tempest II]

Powerplant: one 49.4 kN (11,103 lb st) dry or 84.4 kN (18,969 lb st) with afterburner Klimov RD-93 turbofan
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

I saw that one but Muradk, with a bit of inside knowledge and not telling much is saying that value is wrong.

The engine on later MiG-29 variants is called the RD-43.

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmig29.html

Although much has been loaded onto the MiG-29SMT's airframe compared to the original 9-12 MiG-29, the new variant's performance has not suffered and in fact appears to be improved, thanks to new, more powerful Klimov RD-43 engines with over 10,000 kilograms (22,000 pounds) afterburning thrust.

I would be surprised if China and PAF stayed with the original engine performance.

 

[sancho]

As I mentioned earlier the RD 93 might be only a renamed SMR 95, a later modernised version of the RD33 family specially for single engine fighters.

The SMR-95 is a modified RD-33 twin-shaft turbojet engine with afterburner for MiG-29 that was developed in mid-90s to upgrade foreign-made 2nd and 3rd generation jet fighters.

PRODUCT QUALITY

In contrast to the parent model, the SMR-95’s accessory gearbox is located below the engine; it also has a greater length determined by the dimensions of the aircraft body. The engine passed bench tests and flight tests on the Super Mirage F-1 and Super Cheetah D-2 aircraft of the South African Air Force. The flight performance and combat efficiency of these fighter equipped with the new engine improved by a factor ranging from 1.2 to 3.0.

Owing to the SMR-95 excellent gas flow stability against ambient disturbances, including the use of onboard weapons, there are no restrictions on aircraft control. These engines also have a high rate of thrust increase and, consequently, flight acceleration, which is especially critical for front-line fighters.

Klimov :: Production :: Aircraft Program :: SMR-95

RD-93

A variant used to power the JF-17 / FC-1. According to JF-17.com "The most significant difference being the repositioning of the gearbox along the bottom of the engine casing."

[edit] SMR-95
SMR-95

A model for upgrading international 2nd and 3rd generation jet fighters. The accessory gearbox is repositioned below the engine, length can be varied depending on the adopted aircraft fuselage. The engine passed bench tests and flight tests on the Super Mirage F-1 and Super Cheetah D-2 aircraft of the South African Air Force and had achieved an improvement in flight performance and combat efficiency by a factor ranging from 1.2 to 3.0.[2]

Klimov RD-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early RD33 in Mig 29 should have an afterburner thrust of 81kN, SMR 95 and RD 93 83kN, the RD33 MK of Mig 29K and Mig 35 offers 90kN thrust.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Can PAF use single engine versions of "Snecma M88" (used in Rafeal) or "Eurojet EJ200" (Used in Eurofighter) for JF-17.

 

[BATMAN]

Aviapedia Klimov fighter engines video. RD-33
Article in above link says that it is possible to tune RD-33 for no smoke bu than the life of engine is lowered and the experts at kilmov don't see smoke as a deficiency of any significance.