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ajmal kasab ho sakta hai
Raymond Davis Case: Quest for his real name?
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ajmal kasab ho sakta hai
S.U.R.B.
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Doesn't matter what his real name is or was.....people working with such organizations are smart enough to conceal his identity and scrap any data available as an authentic evidence.....and the court is not gonna give the ruling on the hearsay either.
RabzonKhan
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Raymond Davistan
By Khurram Husain
Published: February 23, 2011
So now were told that Raymond Davis is the man behind all the terrorist incidents in Pakistan. Now we have to believe that because 33 phone numbers in the call register of his cell phone are from Waziristan, it must mean that he is not only in touch with militant TTP elements there, but has been raising his own private corps of Taliban to do his bidding, especially if a report published in this paper on February 22 is to be believed.
The report quotes a senior official in the Punjab police as saying: The Lahore killings were a blessing in disguise for our security agencies who suspected that Davis was masterminding terrorist activities in Lahore and other parts of Punjab.
And why would Raymond Davis, a CIA agent whose cover has been blown, want to raise his own private Taliban corps and carry out terrorist attacks around Pakistan? Hold on to your seats! Because, the report goes on to tell us: Davis was also said to be working on a plan to give credence to the American notion that Pakistans nuclear weapons are not safe.
Excuse me? Was said? By whom? Welcome to Shireen Mazaristan, or Hameed Gulistan if you prefer. This line, that all terrorism in Pakistan is being masterminded by America to destabilise the country and pave the way for the violent seizure of Pakistans nuclear weapons, keeps coming up in all sorts of contexts, but the dangerous thing about it now is that those who propagate the line can claim they have found their smoking gun, their blessing in disguise, and its name is Raymond Davis.
The first indication, that the Davis story was about to be hijacked by the far right, came on the first weekend of February. A number of channels ran a story on the night of February 5, saying that 33 numbers in the call register of Daviss cell phone belonged to people in Waziristan. The next day, in newspapers from the Daily Express to the Daily Ummat, stories appeared in nearly identical language giving the same three pieces of information, all sourced to sensitive intelligence agencies.
The three data points were these: Raymond Davis was in contact with people in Waziristan. He had entered the country along with 75 other team members, whom he was leading. He was making contact with madrassas and militant groups in southern Punjab, the stories went, introducing himself as a British convert to Islam.
The question naturally arose: What business did this guy have calling people in Waziristan, or making contact with madrassas and militant groups in southern Punjab? From here the road forked. One path to take was the shortest distance between the three data points: Raymond Davis, it could be assumed, must be orchestrating the terror attacks around the country. The shortcut to Shireen Mazaristan.
But there was another route which also explained all these data points. Dawn carried a story on Friday, February 18, saying that a GPS chip recovered from Daviss possession was used for targeting drones. Its also common knowledge by now that the US government is using its own people, under diplomatic cover, to keep tabs on militant groups in southern Punjab and their links to Waziristan-based militants. Its also common knowledge that the US government has been cultivating its own network of contacts and informants in Waziristan for purposes such as tracking the movement of militant leaders and illuminating targets for drones.
So if there are calls being made from Daviss cell phone to numbers in Waziristan, and he has made contact with militant groups in southern Punjab, why necessarily conclude that it is because he is masterminding the attacks inside Pakistan? The story carried by this paper does not say. In fact, does the report add any further information beyond the phone numbers found in Daviss cell phone, something that was reported weeks ago? The answer is no. The only thing the report adds is an interpretation, proffered by an anonymous police official, and other sources.
Its important to not fall for the line that Daviss capture in any way proves that terrorism in Pakistan is being masterminded by the Americans.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 24th, 2011.
By Khurram Husain
Published: February 23, 2011
So now were told that Raymond Davis is the man behind all the terrorist incidents in Pakistan. Now we have to believe that because 33 phone numbers in the call register of his cell phone are from Waziristan, it must mean that he is not only in touch with militant TTP elements there, but has been raising his own private corps of Taliban to do his bidding, especially if a report published in this paper on February 22 is to be believed.
The report quotes a senior official in the Punjab police as saying: The Lahore killings were a blessing in disguise for our security agencies who suspected that Davis was masterminding terrorist activities in Lahore and other parts of Punjab.
And why would Raymond Davis, a CIA agent whose cover has been blown, want to raise his own private Taliban corps and carry out terrorist attacks around Pakistan? Hold on to your seats! Because, the report goes on to tell us: Davis was also said to be working on a plan to give credence to the American notion that Pakistans nuclear weapons are not safe.
Excuse me? Was said? By whom? Welcome to Shireen Mazaristan, or Hameed Gulistan if you prefer. This line, that all terrorism in Pakistan is being masterminded by America to destabilise the country and pave the way for the violent seizure of Pakistans nuclear weapons, keeps coming up in all sorts of contexts, but the dangerous thing about it now is that those who propagate the line can claim they have found their smoking gun, their blessing in disguise, and its name is Raymond Davis.
The first indication, that the Davis story was about to be hijacked by the far right, came on the first weekend of February. A number of channels ran a story on the night of February 5, saying that 33 numbers in the call register of Daviss cell phone belonged to people in Waziristan. The next day, in newspapers from the Daily Express to the Daily Ummat, stories appeared in nearly identical language giving the same three pieces of information, all sourced to sensitive intelligence agencies.
The three data points were these: Raymond Davis was in contact with people in Waziristan. He had entered the country along with 75 other team members, whom he was leading. He was making contact with madrassas and militant groups in southern Punjab, the stories went, introducing himself as a British convert to Islam.
The question naturally arose: What business did this guy have calling people in Waziristan, or making contact with madrassas and militant groups in southern Punjab? From here the road forked. One path to take was the shortest distance between the three data points: Raymond Davis, it could be assumed, must be orchestrating the terror attacks around the country. The shortcut to Shireen Mazaristan.
But there was another route which also explained all these data points. Dawn carried a story on Friday, February 18, saying that a GPS chip recovered from Daviss possession was used for targeting drones. Its also common knowledge by now that the US government is using its own people, under diplomatic cover, to keep tabs on militant groups in southern Punjab and their links to Waziristan-based militants. Its also common knowledge that the US government has been cultivating its own network of contacts and informants in Waziristan for purposes such as tracking the movement of militant leaders and illuminating targets for drones.
So if there are calls being made from Daviss cell phone to numbers in Waziristan, and he has made contact with militant groups in southern Punjab, why necessarily conclude that it is because he is masterminding the attacks inside Pakistan? The story carried by this paper does not say. In fact, does the report add any further information beyond the phone numbers found in Daviss cell phone, something that was reported weeks ago? The answer is no. The only thing the report adds is an interpretation, proffered by an anonymous police official, and other sources.
Its important to not fall for the line that Daviss capture in any way proves that terrorism in Pakistan is being masterminded by the Americans.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 24th, 2011.
VCheng
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The court will go by the evidence before it. Here is important news in that regard:
from: In consultation with Intl experts on Davis: FO - GEO.tv
In consultation with Int’l experts on Davis: FO
Updated at: 0134 PST, Thursday, February 24, 2011
ISLAMABAD: Foreign Office spokesperson Tehmina Janjua has said Pakistani government is in serious consultation with international legal experts on Raymond Davis matter, clarifying that the Lahore High Court (LHC) will pronounce the ultimate ruling, Geo News reported Wednesday.
Talking to Geo News in Tokyo, she said that the government of Pakistan was consulting with international legal experts in relating to immunity for US double murder suspect, Raymond Davis, who is currently being tried in Pakistan.
She said the government of Pakistan would be provided a report pertaining to diplomatic immunity for Raymond Davis as late as March 14.
The ultimate decision on the fate of Raymond Davis would be made by LHC and the government would respect court’s judgment.
VCheng
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International treaties and their implementation take precedence over local laws:
from: Davis case may end up in ICJ | Newspaper | DAWN.COM
ISLAMABAD: The lingering dispute over immunity for jailed US official Raymond Davis, accused of double murder, may end up at the International Court of Justice if efforts to resolve the matter diplomatically and bilaterally fail.
Although the US has been insisting that it is focused on bilaterally settling the row, sources suggest that the dispute could be referred to the ICJ.
“There is a dispute resolution mechanism. There is an optional protocol to Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (VCDR)… under which there is a provision for the dispute to be notified to the International Court of Justice,” a diplomatic source said on Tuesday.
Both Pakistan and the US are signatories to the ‘optional protocol’ to the VCDR.
Another route for ending the controversy could be arbitration.
Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told the National Assembly on Monday that the two countries continued to differ on the interpretation and applicability of international and national laws in the case.
The government last week requested the Lahore High Court, hearing petitions challenging Davis’s immunity, for more time to certify his status.
Indecision on part of the government has added to confusion in the case, but it is widely speculated that delaying tactics are being employed to provide the US embassy and the victims’ families an opportunity to reach a compromise.
A reference to the ICJ in a dispute over immunity is rare and the only precedent is that of the 1979 Iranian hostage crisis.
“States realise that they have to work it out together,” the diplomatic source said.
The VCDR’s optional protocol had mandatory jurisdiction and the ICJ “decision will be binding on the states”, said the sources, who is an expert in international law.
“It will be the responsibility of the state concerned to bring its actions in conformity with international law,” the expert stressed.
Meanwhile, a US embassy official questioned the jurisdiction of Pakistani courts to criminally prosecute Davis.
“Since he enjoys immunity the matter shouldn’t have been in the court in the first place,” the official said, adding that Pakistani courts didn’t have jurisdiction to hear his case.
from: Davis case may end up in ICJ | Newspaper | DAWN.COM
ISLAMABAD: The lingering dispute over immunity for jailed US official Raymond Davis, accused of double murder, may end up at the International Court of Justice if efforts to resolve the matter diplomatically and bilaterally fail.
Although the US has been insisting that it is focused on bilaterally settling the row, sources suggest that the dispute could be referred to the ICJ.
“There is a dispute resolution mechanism. There is an optional protocol to Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (VCDR)… under which there is a provision for the dispute to be notified to the International Court of Justice,” a diplomatic source said on Tuesday.
Both Pakistan and the US are signatories to the ‘optional protocol’ to the VCDR.
Another route for ending the controversy could be arbitration.
Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told the National Assembly on Monday that the two countries continued to differ on the interpretation and applicability of international and national laws in the case.
The government last week requested the Lahore High Court, hearing petitions challenging Davis’s immunity, for more time to certify his status.
Indecision on part of the government has added to confusion in the case, but it is widely speculated that delaying tactics are being employed to provide the US embassy and the victims’ families an opportunity to reach a compromise.
A reference to the ICJ in a dispute over immunity is rare and the only precedent is that of the 1979 Iranian hostage crisis.
“States realise that they have to work it out together,” the diplomatic source said.
The VCDR’s optional protocol had mandatory jurisdiction and the ICJ “decision will be binding on the states”, said the sources, who is an expert in international law.
“It will be the responsibility of the state concerned to bring its actions in conformity with international law,” the expert stressed.
Meanwhile, a US embassy official questioned the jurisdiction of Pakistani courts to criminally prosecute Davis.
“Since he enjoys immunity the matter shouldn’t have been in the court in the first place,” the official said, adding that Pakistani courts didn’t have jurisdiction to hear his case.
S.U.R.B.
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That's good to see ,but that's all about considering him as Raymond Davis,rather than trying to disclose his real identity if it exist(which is doubtful).
As the thread starter mentioned.
All these efforts will require some documentary /solid evidence to disclose the identity ,based upon which they can enforce their argument that's he's infact not the diplomat in question.
VCheng
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I have no doubt that legal proceedings, once completed in a rational manner independent of petty inflammatory rhetoric, will uphold all applicable local and international laws in this matter.
Awesome
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I don't expect any foul play from the courts, only the federal government. But it seems highly unlikely they'll dig their own proverbial graves by lying to the court. Courts in their own right will grill the federal government even if they try to lie on the issue.
There is an army of lawyers with various cases filed against Davis
Developereo
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If anybody else had all these calls on their cell phone, they would be enjoying state hospitality for a long, long time. So should Davis until he can provide a reasonable explanation for these calls.
Whatever the international treaties, I doubt that they would provide exemption for 'suspicion of terrorism' charges.
American Eagle
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You are looking into a mirrow to call me a liar.
The fact is Raymond Davis is the victum of a failed armed robbery attempt on his person. He has 100% diplomatic immunity. Some people on this good PDF site don't understand that all the Pakistani court has done is Order the GOP/FO to provide it's ruling o Davis's diplomatic immunity. Nothing more except wild statements, false doctored allegations and pure bunkum has transpired.
Meanwhile more God fearing innocent Paksitani Muslim citizens have been murdered nationwide in Pakistan by the terrorist version of the Taliban and al Qaida.
There are so many recently murdered by suicide terrorist bombers deaths yet this site in terms of your individual inputs is pathetically shy of talking about the real problem, terrorism.
Let me note that in the beginning of the original very long Thread on Mr. Davis I mentioned that the Taliban and al Qaida have had to turn to robberies of individuals and bank stick ups in the FATA,SWAT. NWFP areas. It now seems that some major cities, including Lahore, is a hideout for Taliban rogue terrorists. Thus we may well eventually see, separate and apart from Davis being repatriated under full Diplomatic Immunity, that the robbers were fund raisers in Lahore for the terrorist Taliban who now are hiding out there to avoid being caught and tried in the hot war on terrorism in the Pakistan/Afghan border areas.
Check back to my first few days of posts...then watch the facts develop after Mr. Davis is sent back to the US, and you may will find the purpose of the robbers several stick ups was to raise money for the terroists!
Stay tuned!!!
The fact is Raymond Davis is the victum of a failed armed robbery attempt on his person. He has 100% diplomatic immunity. Some people on this good PDF site don't understand that all the Pakistani court has done is Order the GOP/FO to provide it's ruling o Davis's diplomatic immunity. Nothing more except wild statements, false doctored allegations and pure bunkum has transpired.
Meanwhile more God fearing innocent Paksitani Muslim citizens have been murdered nationwide in Pakistan by the terrorist version of the Taliban and al Qaida.
There are so many recently murdered by suicide terrorist bombers deaths yet this site in terms of your individual inputs is pathetically shy of talking about the real problem, terrorism.
Let me note that in the beginning of the original very long Thread on Mr. Davis I mentioned that the Taliban and al Qaida have had to turn to robberies of individuals and bank stick ups in the FATA,SWAT. NWFP areas. It now seems that some major cities, including Lahore, is a hideout for Taliban rogue terrorists. Thus we may well eventually see, separate and apart from Davis being repatriated under full Diplomatic Immunity, that the robbers were fund raisers in Lahore for the terrorist Taliban who now are hiding out there to avoid being caught and tried in the hot war on terrorism in the Pakistan/Afghan border areas.
Check back to my first few days of posts...then watch the facts develop after Mr. Davis is sent back to the US, and you may will find the purpose of the robbers several stick ups was to raise money for the terroists!
Stay tuned!!!
BoseDK
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It was the false bravado of the two Pakistani agents to threaten an ex-SF CIA guy with guns, that killed them. They are themselves to be blamed.
Had the two guys approached RD with a bouquet of flowers or say chocolates, I dont think RD would have retaliated.
As far as immunity is concerned, If he is a diplomat on paper, then there is no question that pakistan can keep him for long.
In case RD is "Qadrified", then all hells will break loose.
Had the two guys approached RD with a bouquet of flowers or say chocolates, I dont think RD would have retaliated.
As far as immunity is concerned, If he is a diplomat on paper, then there is no question that pakistan can keep him for long.
In case RD is "Qadrified", then all hells will break loose.
Roby
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Raymond Davis saga: US warns of moving International Court
ISLAMABAD: US officials have indirectly warned that their country could approach the International Court of Justice (ICJ), if the spat over their ‘consular employee’ Raymond Davis, is not resolved in accordance with the Vienna Convention.
In a related development, Western newspapers have revealed that they knew that Davis, who is facing double murder charges, was employed by the American spy agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, but the information had been withheld on the request of the US administration. However, US diplomatic officials on Wednesday continued to insist that Davis was a member of the ‘technical and administrative staff’ of their mission in Pakistan and hence immune from criminal prosecution.
Davis, who is currently on judicial remand in Kot Lakhpat Jail, was arrested after he allegedly shot dead two Pakistanis at a busy bus stop in Lahore on January 27. US officials claim that the killings resulted from a ‘botched robbery’ attempt.
US diplomatic officials told The Express Tribune on condition of anonymity that if Pakistan did not honour the Vienna conventions, the US could move the ICJ. They added that the ICJ rulings are mandatory for all signatories to the Vienna Convention.
The US officials said that the Pakistan government could declare any diplomat persona non grata and ask him to ‘pack up and go’, but it could not try any diplomat in any case.
They ruled out the criminal prosecution of Davis who, according to them, enjoys ‘blanket immunity.’ They hinted that Davis’s CIA links had no bearing on his diplomatic immunity because, according to them, anybody could be appointed as a diplomat by a country.
The US officials also claimed that it was not necessary for a diplomat to acquire his/her diplomatic card from the host country.
However, a top foreign ministry official contradicted the claim and termed it bizarre. “It’s mandatory for diplomats to get their diplomatic cards and other necessary documents from the foreign ministry after landing in a host country,” the official told The Express Tribune.
US officials claimed that the US Embassy in Islamabad had declared Davis’s diplomatic status on January 20. But senior officials in the Foreign Office say that they had not received any intimation from the US mission in this regard before the Lahore shooting.
The US Embassy has allegedly been pressuring the Foreign Office to forge the records and backdate Davis’ diplomatic status.
Former foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi had also corroborated these allegations on the floor of the National Assembly on Tuesday. He told lawmakers that he had refused the foreign ministry because he feared the government would force him to forge documents to prove Davis’s diplomatic status.
On Wednesday, the US official renewed the demand for the ‘unconditional and early’ release of Davis. US Senator John Kerry, on a recent trip to Pakistan, had promised a thorough investigation by the US Justice Department if Davis was released by Pakistani authorities.
Qureshi advised the US not to publicly demand diplomatic immunity for Davis. Qureshi recalled that he had refused diplomatic immunity to Davis despite US pressure and had instead made it clear to the Americans that the matter was ‘sensitive’ which could have far-reaching repercussions.
“If asked, I will appear before the Lahore High Court to share my views on the issue which is that Davis does not have blanket immunity,” Qureshi told a gathering at the Rawalpindi district bar on Wednesday.
ISLAMABAD: US officials have indirectly warned that their country could approach the International Court of Justice (ICJ), if the spat over their ‘consular employee’ Raymond Davis, is not resolved in accordance with the Vienna Convention.
In a related development, Western newspapers have revealed that they knew that Davis, who is facing double murder charges, was employed by the American spy agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, but the information had been withheld on the request of the US administration. However, US diplomatic officials on Wednesday continued to insist that Davis was a member of the ‘technical and administrative staff’ of their mission in Pakistan and hence immune from criminal prosecution.
Davis, who is currently on judicial remand in Kot Lakhpat Jail, was arrested after he allegedly shot dead two Pakistanis at a busy bus stop in Lahore on January 27. US officials claim that the killings resulted from a ‘botched robbery’ attempt.
US diplomatic officials told The Express Tribune on condition of anonymity that if Pakistan did not honour the Vienna conventions, the US could move the ICJ. They added that the ICJ rulings are mandatory for all signatories to the Vienna Convention.
The US officials said that the Pakistan government could declare any diplomat persona non grata and ask him to ‘pack up and go’, but it could not try any diplomat in any case.
They ruled out the criminal prosecution of Davis who, according to them, enjoys ‘blanket immunity.’ They hinted that Davis’s CIA links had no bearing on his diplomatic immunity because, according to them, anybody could be appointed as a diplomat by a country.
The US officials also claimed that it was not necessary for a diplomat to acquire his/her diplomatic card from the host country.
However, a top foreign ministry official contradicted the claim and termed it bizarre. “It’s mandatory for diplomats to get their diplomatic cards and other necessary documents from the foreign ministry after landing in a host country,” the official told The Express Tribune.
US officials claimed that the US Embassy in Islamabad had declared Davis’s diplomatic status on January 20. But senior officials in the Foreign Office say that they had not received any intimation from the US mission in this regard before the Lahore shooting.
The US Embassy has allegedly been pressuring the Foreign Office to forge the records and backdate Davis’ diplomatic status.
Former foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi had also corroborated these allegations on the floor of the National Assembly on Tuesday. He told lawmakers that he had refused the foreign ministry because he feared the government would force him to forge documents to prove Davis’s diplomatic status.
On Wednesday, the US official renewed the demand for the ‘unconditional and early’ release of Davis. US Senator John Kerry, on a recent trip to Pakistan, had promised a thorough investigation by the US Justice Department if Davis was released by Pakistani authorities.
Qureshi advised the US not to publicly demand diplomatic immunity for Davis. Qureshi recalled that he had refused diplomatic immunity to Davis despite US pressure and had instead made it clear to the Americans that the matter was ‘sensitive’ which could have far-reaching repercussions.
“If asked, I will appear before the Lahore High Court to share my views on the issue which is that Davis does not have blanket immunity,” Qureshi told a gathering at the Rawalpindi district bar on Wednesday.
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