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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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One point that American loyalists and Americans themselves on this forum are not letting go off is that Davis killed in self-defence and the police did not find any evidence on the scene which would accuse Davis of a grave crime. The links below speak the opposite, the police in its investigation has found Davis guilty of cold blooded murder. Those journalist who have got a copy of the 25 page challan tell that it includes the fact that after RD had shot dead the passanger on the bike he then went after the driver who at that point was running away from the scene (on foot) Davis got out of his car and shot him on his back twice to kill him. 47 witnesses include 2 traffic counstables as well. watch NEWS NIGHT WITH TALAT HUSSAIN 18-2-2011. I have posted the link to the last part of the show where the reasons for why the police believe this to be cold blooded murder are given.

Challan of Davis submitted in court

Police files

Challan of Raymond Davis has been given to the court

Justin.tv - ZemTv.Com - News Night with Talat 2/18/11 - P4
 
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One point that American loyalists and Americans themselves on this forum are not letting go off is that Davis killed in self-defence and the police did not find any evidence on the scene which would accuse Davis of a grave crime. The links below speak the opposite, the police in its investigation has found Davis guilty of cold blooded murder. Those journalist who have got a copy of the 25 page challan tell that it includes the fact that after RD had shot dead the passanger on the bike he then went after the driver who at that point was running away from the scene (on foot) Davis got out of his car and shot him on his back twice to kill him. 47 witnesses include 2 traffic counstables as well. watch NEWS NIGHT WITH TALAT HUSSAIN 18-2-2011.

Challan of Davis submitted in court

Police files

Challan of Raymond Davis has been given to the court


the americans are playing two positions.

firstly he is a diplomat and should be taken back to the US.

second is even if he is not a diplomat he was acting in self defence so its ok if he murdered those two people.

there is no consistency, if the first one is true and you are certain of it then why mention the second aspect.


its disinformaton.
 
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I find it very easy to ignore personal attacks. :D

I am secure in my love for both Pakistan and USA, plain and simple! :D

Further, I do take positions with a fairly good though not perfect understanding of all aspects of an issue. I am not blinded by my own prejudices ever for I have worked hard to have none.

I dont doubt ur love for my country as I have acknowledged earliar. But just painting the situation with dooms day scenerios alone, to me, dont sound like a 'fairly good' understanding
 
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As I mentioned earlier, VCheng is R.Davis' lawyer and he had been paid by US to promote this disinformations. I assure you, US and Pakistan always normal relations in a tough times. :enjoy:

any beer?
 
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Americans who are demanding immunity for davis,, they should answer first about pakistani diplomat who was kidnapped by fbi in 2005
Ummat Publications
 
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I dont doubt ur love for my country as I have acknowledged earliar. But just painting the situation with dooms day scenerios alone, to me, dont sound like a 'fairly good' understanding

Fair enough, I can accept your contention that my understanding does not appear robust to you, but please consider the possibility at least that I may be taking a much broader and longer view of things than others may be at this point in time. I am painting no doomsday scenarios, merely the most likely and plausible outcomes, based on the evidence before me. I also do not expect all to agree with my positions since a diversity of opinions is the mark of a good debate, as the one in this thread in particular and on PDF in general.

And thank you for not doubting my feelings for Pakistan, as well as USA. I am blessed enough that I could feel insulated from the direct effects of what happens in Pakistan, but my loyalty to the land of my birth compels me to speak. Mujhe hukum he kalma-e-bar-haq kehney ka.

As I mentioned earlier, VCheng is R.Davis' lawyer and he had been paid by US to promote this disinformations. I assure you, US and Pakistan always normal relations in a tough times. :enjoy:

any beer?

And as I mentioned earlier, my positions are as fair as I can make them based on my resources. If you do not agree with them, then that is your right and I will always respect that too.

Would you like me to send you some beer? :D
 
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In fact Raymond Davis himself was one of the people stopped with weapons, he was kicked out of Peshawar for this purpose because his activities were suspicious:

A time to re-evaluate our ties with America – The Express Tribune


He was already suspected of being supportive of terrorists or at least of being a spy and this is a matter of record and now that we know he has made calls to Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - which is stated by the police after reviewing his phone records, it just assures the US - TTP link that has been speculated.

Of course there may be some big misunderstanding and you all will get your time in court

Without looking at Israel/Indian aspect, I think that (if) there is any support for TTP by the U.S, it could be justified in a way.
The U.S. wants Pakistan to take action against Haqqani group which is causing trouble for Americans in Afghanistan but Pakistan refused to do it, considering several reasons. In retaliation, the U.S. started to support TTP thugs--A) Maybe to pressurize Pakistan to take action against all groups of Talibans as TTP is famous to kill innocent people or B) To create a wave of terror to further disintegrate the social thread of the society.

I can be wrong in my analysis.
 
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One point that American loyalists and Americans themselves on this forum are not letting go off is that Davis killed in self-defence and the police did not find any evidence on the scene which would accuse Davis of a grave crime. The links below speak the opposite, the police in its investigation has found Davis guilty of cold blooded murder. Those journalist who have got a copy of the 25 page challan tell that it includes the fact that after RD had shot dead the passanger on the bike he then went after the driver who at that point was running away from the scene (on foot) Davis got out of his car and shot him on his back twice to kill him. 47 witnesses include 2 traffic counstables as well. watch NEWS NIGHT WITH TALAT HUSSAIN 18-2-2011. I have posted the link to the last part of the show where the reasons for why the police believe this to be cold blooded murder are given.

Challan of Davis submitted in court

Police files

Challan of Raymond Davis has been given to the court

Justin.tv - ZemTv.Com - News Night with Talat 2/18/11 - P4

If US would have come out even neutral in the start by saying: please hand over our man and we give you grantee that if we find him guilt he will be punished and discharge and we say sorry to the victims family with compensation. I can bet things would have been different by now.

But they came out as bulls by saying hand out our men else we will do this to you. they played bad cop first in place of playing good cop.

few months ago I watch a western movie in which Sheriff catches a brother of powerful guy and puts him in the jail and he challenges him to hand over his brother or else his town will get it.
 
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On a side note, I just want to share this quote with intelligence operatives of all countries!

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
 
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Posted by me:
"-A) Maybe to pressurize Pakistan to take action against all groups of Talibans as TTP is famous to kill innocent people"

NEW YORK: As a diplomatic standoff between Pakistan and the United States festers, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton warned on Friday that Pakistan risked major instability at home and a hampered war effort in next-door Afghanistan if it didn’t implement reforms and stop fomenting anti-American sentiment.

In a speech at the Asia Society, Ms Clinton said Pakistani cooperation was critical to the success of the fight against Taliban and Al Qaeda extremists in neighbouring Afghanistan. She also said it was “no secret that we have not always seen eye to eye with Pakistan”.

“Pressure from the Pakistani side will help push the Taliban towards the negotiating table and away from Al Qaeda,” she said.

In an intense hour long speech, Ms Clinton urged India and Pakistan to continue their talks which began in Thimphu (Bhutan) which she said augured well for peace in the region.

“Distrust lingers on both sides,” she said. “We need to work together carefully to prevent misunderstandings and disagreements from derailing the progress we have made in the past two years.”

Relations with Pakistan have plummeted to their lowest point in recent years since the arrest of an American citizen in Lahore. The employee, Raymond Davis, shot and killed two Pakistani men he says were trying to rob him on Jan 27.

While reviewing President Barack Obama’s policy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Ms Clinton stressed that the transition from US to Afghan-led security in Afghanistan would “be formally launched next month, with troop reductions starting in July and continuing based on conditions on the ground. It will be completed by the end of 2014”.

Special representative

She also formally named Marc Grossman, a former US ambassador to Turkey who served in Pakistan early in his career, as the new Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, replacing Richard Holbrooke who died last December.

Ms Clinton warned Taliban fighters in Afghanistan that they faced a stark choice between war and peace, as US military pressure on them mounted. “They cannot defeat us. And they cannot escape this choice.”

She reiterated America’s three-track strategy in Afghanistan: a military offensive against Al Qaeda and the Taliban; a civilian-led effort to strengthen the Afghan and Pakistani governments, economies and civil societies; and a diplomatic effort to end the Afghan war.

She said the US aimed to bolster an Afghan-led effort to split the Taliban from its Al Qaeda allies and reconcile those willing to renounce violence with the Kabul government.

“In 2001, after 9/11, the Taliban chose to defy the international community and protect Al Qaeda,” she said.

“That was the wrong choice, and they have paid a heavy price. Today, the escalating pressure of our military campaign is sharpening a similar decision for the Taliban: break ties with Al Qaeda, give up your arms and abide by the Afghan constitution and you can rejoin Afghan society; refuse and you will continue to face the consequences of being tied to Al Qaeda as an enemy of the international community.”

US forces are expecting heavy fighting to resume this spring after the annual winter lull.

But Ms Clinton said that the security situation had improved and begun to stabilise, with gains made “at the village level”.

“The momentum of the Taliban insurgents has been blunted and in some places even reversed,” she said.

She said Al Qaeda remained a “serious threat”, but added that the US had given the group’s allies and sympathisers reason to question the value of the alliance.

Stop fomenting anti-Americanism, Hillary urges Pakistan | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

Edit: I just read this news.

I think that the U.S. government wanted to pressurize Pakistan by different means as they got a ' no action against Haqqani' at the beginning. Maybe they failed to convince Pakistan and that is why they used offensive tactics.
 
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what has this quote to do with this thread ????????? please explain

It means that no one should cause trouble in foreign land so everyone can live in peace.
Generally speaking, patriotism kills people.

The great Russians, the innovative British, the French, the German, the Ottoman, the American, the Japanese etc etc
When you expand, you feel proud about it and nations expand because there are patriotic people. Yes, patriotism is good for your country but not so good for your enemy. So, those 'great' nations should try to live inside their border.
 
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Hi,

In one of the clips from DUNYA NEWS that one of our colleagues posted here----the tv anchor states and points to the hand gun in the hand of the dead person lying on the road----.


The other issue in the police reoprt is how pakistani police looks and interprets 'SELF DEFENCE'----now I can understand the stupidity of my police force----police claims that there was lethal force used---indeed there was----police officer claims that the aggressor could have shot the culprit in the legs as the aggressor was a trained shooter.

This statement is the height of incompetence of understanding the significance of self defence---what do pakistanis think----when you point a gun at someone--nothing is going to happen to you----. This thing about shooting someone in the legs to disable him---only happens in the movies----a special forces type is not going to shoot that way---his training is to take the threat down and out----there are no cutesies as the pakistani police inspector mentioned and wanted.

I want to laugh at that joke----but rather I want to cry at the irony of it as well.

Now setting things aside-----any pakistanis have been in the U S for a long time-----truthseeker----solomon2 and american eagle would remember the case of the new york SUBWAY SHOOTER-----guess what happened to him----. Maybe solomon2 can throw some light on it or maybe our friend american eagle can.


If not here is the gist of it-----the subway shooter was a young american man who travelled the subway at the night time after work to get to his home---he had previously been robbed----so this time he packed a gun---when he got jumped by a couple of blacks with guns----he pulled out his gun and shot them both down---tragically both lived----now you might be thinking of a happy ending-----I will let solomon2 finish it off---.



The U S asking to try Davis in america----let us see how that happens----this american soldiers on recce mission sees this 14 years old girl in a street in iraq---he plans with his buddies----they come one days----create a fake encounter---then in front of her eyes---shoot her father---her brothers----her uncles----her little bros and sisters and mom and all the women in the house----then that girl is gang raped by the american soldiers----and then she is shot as well after being raped by the good cross carrying soldiers around their necks ---the soldiers of christ----one of the soldiers who has some consicence left reports the incidence----there is a case and trial----there were thousand of iraqi women girls raped and boys sodomized by the american soldiers----how many have been punished by the american law and given a punishment befitting the crime----none---not a single soldier.


That is not the end------

Was that in the late 80's or 90's----it is italy-------italian skiers are going to the top of the mountain in a gondola---when the wire that is carrying the gondola is cut---the gondola falls down killing around 200 italin skiers-----you know what happened----an american pilot decided to fly through that canyon at an extremely low altitude---that low altitude was restricted as a matter of fact the american pilots were not authorized to fly through that canyon at all-----well guess what happened----the plane flew under the cable-----the tail of the plane struck the cable and cut it cleanly and the pilot never knew that he had become the murderer of 200 people that day.

Against the protests of the italians the pilot was whisked to the U S----there was a court hearing where he was declared innocent.

So---the bottomlinbe is that there are one too many spins in the U S law----it is beyond the comprehension of an ordinary citizen---so pak must do what it wants to-----charge Mr Davis---prosecute him---sentence him and then declare him persona non grata and kick him out to spend the rest of his jail time in the U S and let them decide what to do with him.


Now----another funny thing----the drone strikes have stopped now-----was that Davis who was guiding the strikes from the ground in waziristan---I mean to say that his electronic foot print has been there as well------.
 
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