Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Abu Basit]

For God's sake... Let him go!!! Why ruin all this trust, all this good...

I want stronger relations between Pakistan and the USA. I wan't this to grow and flourish and i want us to sit back a bit, tone down the passion and hear both sides.

Things were handled badly on both sides... Lets move on beyond this.

you wouldn't have said this had your brother/father/child (Allah forbid) been killed by an american terrorist.

listen to the voice of the majority, this terrorist should be hanged.

and there's nothing good in the so called 'good' relationships with america.

 

[JonAsad]

LHC to hear Davis case via video-link


LAHORE: Lahore High Court (LHC) though video-link will open a hearing on Thursday to decide if a US official accused of killing two Pakistanis has diplomatic immunity, in a case that has frayed ties between the wary allies.

LHC had given the foreign ministry 15 days to answer on whether full diplomatic status was held by Raymond Davis, who has been remanded in custody since his arrest following the incident on January 27.

Foreign ministry and US legal counsel are expected to make representations to the chief justice at 9am (0400GMT) before legal challenges are made by lawyers who have filed private petitions questioning Davis' status and aimed at stopping him from leaving the country.

"The actions of Raymond Davis are not covered by blanket immunity because he has committed a heinous crime," one of the lawyers, Mohammad Azhar Siddique, told AFP.

"According to the process of investigation he has been charged with murder... Let the American face trial."

The judge can confirm or reject the US claim of diplomatic immunity, or can adjourn the case to give himself more time to decide.

Davis insists he acted in self-defence when he shot dead the two men in a busy street in the eastern city of Lahore. A third Pakistani died when struck by a US diplomatic vehicle that came to Davis' assistance.

The Pakistan government has largely remained quiet in public since the incident that triggered a major diplomatic row, but American officials have insisted Davis must be immediately released under international law.

Former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi has said Davis does not have full diplomatic status, while the ministry in a statement on Wednesday dismissed media speculation that it had already confirmed the US man's right to immunity.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that the courts must decide Davis' fate.

But the prime minister has also suggested that relatives of the two Pakistani men shot dead might pardon the American, following a high-profile visit to the country by US Senator John Kerry aimed at resolving the row.

Kerry, who heads the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and arrived in Lahore on Tuesday, voiced deep regret over the killings.

Many Pakistanis remain suspicious about Davis, who was arrested with loaded weapons and a GPS satellite-tracking device, and who police have said is guilty of murder. US authorities have been vague as to his role in Pakistan.

Hundreds of Pakistanis have taken to the streets demanding that Davis be hanged over the killings, and domestic media has been rife with allegations of a spy conspiracy. The widow of one of the men shot dead has committed suicide.

The United States has postponed a round of high-level talks with Afghanistan and Pakistan following failed attempts to get Davis out, and US lawmakers have threatened to cut payments to Pakistan unless he is freed.

A court last Friday remanded Davis in custody until February 25. (Online).

Source: GeoTv

 

[Awesome]

Post-poned to 14th March... The FO didn't present any letter, the US embassy personnel weren't even there, they buckled under pressure when the reports leaked out that they will be presenting fake documents on thursday.

They asked for three more weeks to present their case, hopefully even three years won't be enough to falsify these documents.

 

[Awesome]

For God's sake... Let him go!!! Why ruin all this trust, all this good...

I want stronger relations between Pakistan and the USA. I wan't this to grow and flourish and i want us to sit back a bit, tone down the passion and hear both sides.

Things were handled badly on both sides... Lets move on beyond this.

If the US is now in the business of killing Pakistanis and evading trial for it, they are already an enemy state. From Pakistan's side things weren't handled badly... Especially when you consider there are two Pakistan's, America's Pakistan and Pakistanis' Pakistan. The Pakistani side has done things by the book, but the American side has now resorted to using our corrupt elements and falsifying documents, firing people from the position of power who supported the Pakistani side.

 

[Awesome]

Pak Foreign Ministry denies 'reported statement' on Davis' diplomatic immunity


Pakistan's Foreign Ministry has denied any reported statements regarding the diplomatic immunity issue of double murder-accused US official Raymond Davis, dismissing them as 'rumours'.

It had been reported by Pakistani media that the Foreign Office had declared Davis "a diplomat" in a letter written to the Law Ministry.

According to that letter, Davis was designated in Pakistan at the US Consulate in Lahore as "a diplomat" and enjoys 'diplomatic immunity' according to the Vienna Convention.

However, refuting these reports, the Foreign Office spokesman said in his statement that whether the US consulate employee had diplomatic immunity or not was up to the court to decide, and denied any reported statements regarding the issue.

The Foreign Office said that all the reports regarding the issue were based on 'assumptions' and did not have anything to do with the facts, the Dawn reported.

It is noteworthy that the Foreign Office issued this statement in the backdrop of the news circulating in the media regarding the handover of Davis to the US authorities. (ANI)

 

[Awesome]

Senator John Kerry leaves Pakistan

ISLAMABAD, Feb 16 (APP): Senator John Kerry who arrived in Pakistan on Tuesday night, left on Wednesday after having meetings with the senior leadership of the country.During his stay in Pakistan, he met with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani and Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani.He also held special meetings with chief of Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz (PML-N) Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif and former Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.Senator Kerry was seen off at Chaklala Air Base by US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron P. Munter and other officials of the US Embassy.

Talking to media before his departure, John Kerry termed his visit and meetings satisfactory adding that he had held detailed discussions over the issue of Davis.

“I am hopeful that the Lahore incident will be resolved in the coming days,” he added.

Senator Kerry remarked that he would brief President Obama on his meetings in Pakistan.

He expressed his profound grief and sorrow over the tragic incident.

Obama should come down himself too, once he gets to talk to the hand too... Things in Pakistan will change for the good. The momentum is perfect to break free of the shackles America has tied us in.

 

[charlietophits]

I repeat what I wrote earlier today. I respect and believe what our US President, our US Secretary of State, and our US Ambassasdor have said that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity. This fact is borne out as in agreed to by the Pakistani Foreign Officer letter to the Pakistani Interior Minister who in turn one presumes will share this information with Mr. Davis and with the Pakistani court involved.

It may be fun for some to fantasize about evil scenarios but there are crimes attempted all over the world where the robbers sometimes end up being killed by the person put upon resisting their robbery attempt. This is a clear cut case of such an example, if anyone will focus on the findings on the first Paksitani Police Report.

The definition of a robber is to be found with stolen goods on your person or in your possession. This is and was the case of both failed robbers who took on Mr. Davis.

It serves no useful purpose to get into more details, some of which are very suspect to try to railroad Mr. Davis, so I will go no further.

The only thing that matters now, initially, is the fact that the FO now admits in writing that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity, 100% immunity, as do all overseas US State Dept. employees of all sorts and types.

I don't think that raymond is a diplomat . And so what if he is?
He was caught carrying weapons , a GPS satellite tracking device, pictures of Pakistani army sensitive installations, and other sensitive material? Why was he making phone calls to Waziristan on the Pak-Afghan border when he was in the most eastern city of Pakistan near the Pakistan-India border (as Lahore police discovered from his cell phone).

The above mentioned fact prove without a shadow of doubt that R. davis was actually a spy. Hence he should be tried as such too.
No spy of any country can be allowed diplomatic immunity in any way at all.

Spies are usually executed, which should not be a problem in Raymond's case because he has already killed 2 persons and also used excessive force.
One report says that he got out of the car and shot one of the men again too.

On the minimum raymond should get exactly what he dishes out.

 

[charlietophits]

Hi, I agree with Mr. MK. Pakistan is in no position financially to hold Mr. Davis, even in the situation where he does not have diplomatic immunity. The IMF has refused further loans to Pakistan, the US is stalling on reimbursing Pakistan via the Coalition Support Fund, no new taxes, no decrease in subsidies in the Pakistani budget, and other funding has dried up.

I recently read the Pakistani finance minister was literally begging President's Obama's financial advisor for cash. Currently, the State Bank of Pakistan is printing billions of rupees to keep the government afloat. This will not last for long, as the rupee will simply keep losing its value, which will further increase foreign debt obligations. This current governments economic team is worse than Zimbabwe, printing notes. The bottom line is the current government does not care, other than enriching itself personally, and is completely dependent on the US for its financial charity. As such, it is inevitable that Mr. Davis will be released, immunity or no-immunity.

Liabilities, debt service rise to Rs1 trillion | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

I have got news for you, So is America! America is continuously printing billions of dollars without so much as an ounce of gold to back it up. It was widely feared in the Financial sector of America that there would be chaos and anarchy in the streets when the people come to realize that the banks and all financial institutions are basically bankrupt.
But this did not happen. Now Obama is printing more dollars and pumping this in its already "empty" economy.
Why do you think that Ahmedinajad or chavez are bad guys? They have basically started selling oil or trading in Euro. If this trend catches on, suddenly the demand for the dollar will fall and america will find the dollar being equal to the japanese yen.

That is the whole story in short

 

[Sulfur]

RD is a typical ‘Trigger Happy American Soldier’ with inbuilt arrogance, and who has the required security assurance provided by the both American and Pakistan foreign offices. Although, this background is not sufficient to describe reason for the act of killing but lack of ability to retaliate (any kind) is always anticipated by attack. A very faint motive (two guys following on bicke) how became the reason for so powerful reaction; could not be analyzed without going into the details of history/media/Paranoia/ /type-A personality/alcohol/STDs/ and abuses etc.

This person could have different attitude in Somalia (where an American soldier was dragged through Moghadeshu) because history sets the deterrence. Analyzing Pakistan or America in a general way (within the context of this event) will be totally misleading and create much more smoke than fire.

It is always fruitful to be specific and quantitative, and regarding this event, the only solution could be; estimate losses (and losses to come) for both the countries, compensation for the effected families, bilateral transfer of detainee, and proper use of media to inform people of both countries about this incident and future preventive action. This seems idealistic, but there must be a frame of reference to start with otherwise noises will override the advices.

 

[Leviza]

RD is a typical ‘Trigger Happy American Soldier’ with inbuilt arrogance, and who has the required security assurance provided by the both American and Pakistan foreign offices. Although, this background is not sufficient to describe reason for the act of killing but lack of ability to retaliate (any kind) is always anticipated by attack. A very faint motive (two guys following on bicke) how became the reason for so powerful reaction; could not be analyzed without going into the details of history/media/Paranoia/ /type-A personality/alcohol/STDs/ and abuses etc.

This person could have different attitude in Somalia (where an American soldier was dragged through Moghadeshu) because history sets the deterrence. Analyzing Pakistan or America in a general way (within the context of this event) will be totally misleading and create much more smoke than fire.

It is always fruitful to be specific and quantitative, and regarding this event, the only solution could be; estimate losses (and losses to come) for both the countries, compensation for the effected families, bilateral transfer of detainee, and proper use of media to inform people of both countries about this incident and future preventive action. This seems idealistic, but there must be a frame of reference to start with otherwise noises will override the advices.

you seems to be a very simple person my friend .... there are lots of double faces friends of Pakistan these days...
USA is playing a double games in Pakistan.... they are so simple like you said then they dont need such CIA elements on Pakistan ground.
Also they wont allow india in Afghanistan to back stab Pakistan

so simple solution is
Jahan per itnay false encounter hotay hian police main wahan aek ye bhee ho jana chiya (jitna jaldi hota utna easy rehta) ..... coz gov is failed in protecting its citizens

USA is not only looking to protect this one guy actual issue is if this guy is properly investigated then lots of other CIA elements will be exposed to ISI and general public which USA dont want :0 i hope you got the picture now...

 

[r3alist]

Senator John Kerry leaves Pakistan



Obama should come down himself too, once he gets to talk to the hand too... Things in Pakistan will change for the good. The momentum is perfect to break free of the shackles America has tied us in.

I don't think that raymond is a diplomat . And so what if he is?
He was caught carrying weapons , a GPS satellite tracking device, pictures of Pakistani army sensitive installations, and other sensitive material? Why was he making phone calls to Waziristan on the Pak-Afghan border when he was in the most eastern city of Pakistan near the Pakistan-India border (as Lahore police discovered from his cell phone).

The above mentioned fact prove without a shadow of doubt that R. davis was actually a spy. Hence he should be tried as such too.
No spy of any country can be allowed diplomatic immunity in any way at all.

Spies are usually executed, which should not be a problem in Raymond's case because he has already killed 2 persons and also used excessive force.
One report says that he got out of the car and shot one of the men again too.

On the minimum raymond should get exactly what he dishes out.

Well said guys.

Atleast some are thinking straight.

 

[rohailmalhi]

Question for American Eagle :
What will your gov do if they get a consular arrested for killing 2 americans in so called self defence. and the person is has illegal ammo and spying device . What will u do if u get from that consular ,the pictures of american sensitive installations and the call record linking him to terrorist groups which are trying to kill more Americans .

What will u would u let it go without anything .I dont think so .

Justice should be served .RD should be punished for what he has done to Pakistanis. May his soul rest in hell .

 

[Awesome]

Gentlemen,


Mr Davis is going home---what we need to worry is how much of the extra aid money is going to the pocket of Mr Zardari and Mr Gilani---our prime minister---

Mastaan sahab, it is really confusing, if such statements are being given by a selective type of Pakistanis to alert the Pakistani public to stand up to this injustice or is it being done to infuse some sort of conciliatory thought in the Pakistani mindset that "that things are so bad so there is no use fighting for the right things".

I can't help but realize that this selective group, be it Sami Shah's I Spy article, be it the loyalists of the PPP, be it the doomsday warnings on the forums - its certainly starting to look like a concientious effort to some how degalvanize the Pakistani populace that is right now fighting the most important battle for its sovereignty.

 

[Awesome]

To add to the point that this is not just about one case, but its about ridding us from the royal Fing job we're getting at the hands of numerous agents

CIA Army’s murder teams invade Pakistan: Bob Woodward|Today's Views

The CIA calls it its elite Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams. Pakistanis face it as the TTP. The CIA calls it Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams. Pakistan see them as bombs blowing up in mosques and hospitals. The CIA sees its army killing “terrorists”. Pakistanis face an unending killing of its civilians.

The CIA created, controls and pays for a clandestine 3,000-man paramilitary army of local Afghans, known as Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams. Woodward describes these teams as elite, well-trained units that conduct highly sensitive covert operations into Pakistan as part of a stepped-up campaign against al-Qaeda and Afghan Taliban havens there. (Excerpt from Boob Woodward’s book published in the Washington Post).

 

[Abu Basit]

In streets of Lahore, anger at U.S. shooter runs deep

By Chris Allbritton
LAHORE | Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:13am EST

LAHORE (Reuters) - A day before a Pakistani court considers the question of diplomatic immunity for a U.S. national accused of two murders, the relatives of one of the slain men demanded "blood for blood" and threatened revenge.

U.S. consulate employee Raymond Davis shot dead two Pakistanis last month in what he said was self-defense during an armed robbery.

Washington has insisted Davis, whose role at the U.S. consulate in Lahore is unclear, should be released immediately. Pakistan says his status should be determined by the courts.
"We will only accept blood for blood," said Imran Haider, the eldest brother of Faizan Haider, one of the slain men. "He should be tried in Pakistan and sentenced to death here."
The Lahore High Court will hold another hearing in the case on Thursday, during which the United States is expected to present a petition to certify that Davis has diplomatic immunity and should be released.

Obama has sent Senator John Kerry to Pakistan to help secure Davis's release. Kerry has issued a statement of regret over the loss of life and pledged that the U.S. Department of Justice would open a criminal investigation against Davis.

As Pakistan celebrated the birthday of Islam's Prophet Mohammad, the Ravi Road area of Lahore, where the Haider family lives, was bedecked with tinsel streamers. Religious hymns blared from a boombox propped up on a couple of cinderblocks.

Inside the modest receiving room of the Haider household, where photos of prize goats previously sacrificed for Muslim holidays dot the walls, Imran was in no mood to compromise.

"He has killed our innocent brother and we will seek his death in return for this crime," Haider said while a relative sat nearby dabbing watery eyes.
"Immunity doesn't mean he should kill people on the street," he said. "And if he is sent to the United States, we will fight to the last drop of our blood."


He added: "We will come to the streets and muster support from the people of Pakistan and surround the homes and residences of the rulers.

"If they play any role in the release of Raymond Davis, I believe the people will oust the two governments" at the federal and provincial level.

Many in Lahore, Pakistan's lively cultural capital, agreed.
"Raymond Davis should be hanged in public. He should not be handed over to the Americans," said Tanvir Ahmed, a student at the University of Engineering and Technology in Lahore.

"If our rulers hand him over to the U.S., we will kick them out of the power corridor."