Raymond Davis Case: American Government officials confirm CIA status - New York Times

[VCheng]

Why? I say keep digging, exposing, and beating the drums! Only people in the wrong want to hush things up. We simpletons have earned our day to be loud mouthed blunt jerks

Pakistan, toh sabke dil main hai, lekin kabhi Shor macha, Awaz Utha.

I hear you Asim, but my fears come mainly from economic concerns. Maybe I am wrong, but I have seen civil society collapse under sustained economic pressures before, and trust me, it is not pretty. I fear for that. And right now, the deck is stacked against Pakistan's economy.


"No man can be a patriot on an empty stomach." William Cowper

 

[Hammy007]

The thing is, giving the raymond davis case much too hype than it deserves is highly detrmental to pakistani foreign relations. I am not going to talk about the ethics or morality behind it without waiting for the whole story to come out. Pakistan as a nation cannot afford to be isolated at this particular juncture. You "really" need the few precious allies you can get.

so pakistan will be isolated because a terrorist CIA element went rogue and killed two innocent pakistanis, then his country declared those pakistanis robbers and terrorists, this dude planted fake guns to bad name pakistan...

you bhartis must realize, pakistanis are proud people, literally US isolating pakistanis goes in pakistan's favour, we dont need such favours who plant bombs in our cities who kill our people through drones, and arm our enemies with nuclear deals...

as ayub khan said, US must behave as our friend and not our master

i must say that that faisal shahzad thing must be thoroughly investigated by pakistanis, so that we must know who he really was and ensure that he too was not just another CIA implanted bug intended to pressurize and insult pakistan

get your tin head some where else plzz now..

 

[Awesome]

From what i hear, the americans are no way going to let go of davies. This is it. Even my speculation is that he would be freed, discreetly or otherwise. There is simply too much at stake here.

So what're you saying Pakistanis have to back off? Moot point. Non-starter. American pressure, their aid, and all that, its irrelevant now. People in Pakistan view the Americans government ducking, buckling and panicking, the threat perception is just not there.

Yeah the bribe factor is always there, given Pakistan's own screw ups. But a person has to be really dumb to think they can get away with it.

 

[Awesome]

I hear you Asim, but my fears come mainly from economic concerns. Maybe I am wrong, but I have seen civil society collapse under sustained economic pressures before, and trust me, it is not pretty. I fear for that. And right now, the deck is stacked against Pakistan's economy.


"No man can be a patriot on an empty stomach." William Cowper

We're working this hard for freedom... Not to be patriots. Who says the fight will be over, it will be another American attack right? No drones, but in the form of sanctions? The path to freedom is not the proverbial road to perdition. What'll they do? Take away our food? We can collect food and send to Pakistan. Take away our oil? We can work hard in building that damn Wind Power project finally, we can do things, karne ke ki niyat aur himmat honi chahiye. Fear is no policy.

 

[VCheng]

We're working this hard for freedom... Not to be patriots. Who says the fight will be over, it will be another American attack right? No drones, but in the form of sanctions? The path to freedom is not the proverbial road to perdition. What'll they do? Take away our food? We can collect food and send to Pakistan. Take away our oil? We can work hard in building that damn Wind Power project finally, we can do things, karne ke ki niyat aur himmat honi chahiye. Fear is no policy.

I pray for your dreams to come true, I really do.

However, maybe I am too much of a realist (pessimist?) I will admit, but we shall soon see. The drone attacks have already resumed, oil prices are about to take a real hike, and other things are also coming. I may not have family there anymore, but I do have real and dear friends there still.

Rest assured I will be trying my level best anywhere I can to help in whatever way I can, including on this forum. We may not always agree, but you can be sure my heart is in the same place as yours.

 

[American Eagle]

Ifran Baloch posted on a just closed out thread dealing with Raymond Davis and his alleged CIA mission as a certified US Diplomat with 100% Diplomatic Immunity.

Ifran's posting is civil and asks a fair question about the innocent Paksitani killed in the auto incident the same day that Raymond Davis faced attempted robbery at gun point.

IF what I have read in the international media over the weekend, if these stories are essentially correct, then the GOP acknowledges that the two US Embassy diplomats who might have been in the car in question were repatriated PDQ back to the US.

If this is correct in terms of my assumptions here, the of course the family of the man innocently killed in the accident deserves an absolute and humble apology and reparations if not yet paid must promtly be paid to the deceased Pakistani's family or next of kin.

I would go one step further. If he was old enough himself to have children who are school age then I would like to see the US Embassy undertake the cost of a proper grammer and high school, in US terms, education for these childlren, and if they then in years to come would be up to trying a college or technical college education, the US should likewise pay for that, soup to nuts.

This will not replace the if this made up by me scenario were true the loss of a parent but would at least compensate the widow if such exists, and the children, if they exist.

Otherwise whoever his natural next of kind is or would be should be paid adequate reparations and sincere apologies and condolences.

 

[Tin Man]

Its easy to make long winded patriotic speeches. But its an entrely different thing when as a nation you are faced with embargoes and sanctions and that, not restricted to defence alone. Pakistan has very few options in front of it.

If it succumbs to the religious right wing extremists, it can slip into becoming the next best banana republic in the world.

If it defies all other potential international allies and focuses only on a few, it can become the next north korea.

But....if it somehow miraculously manages to get rid of its faulty leadership and replace it with a more peace oriented and honest leadership (not military); the path forward is pretty good, even amazing. You need allies in this world my friend. It really is a dog eat dog world.

 

[Hammy007]

Ifran Baloch posted on a just closed out thread dealing with Raymond Davis and his alleged CIA mission as a certified US Diplomat with 100% Diplomatic Immunity.

Ifran's posting is civil and asks a fair question about the innocent Paksitani killed in the auto incident the same day that Raymond Davis faced attempted robbery at gun point.

IF what I have read in the international media over the weekend, if these stories are essentially correct, then the GOP acknowledges that the two US Embassy diplomats who might have been in the car in question were repatriated PDQ back to the US.

If this is correct in terms of my assumptions here, the of course the family of the man innocently killed in the accident deserves an absolute and humble apology and reparations if not yet paid must promtly be paid to the deceased Pakistani's family or next of kin.

I would go one step further. If he was old enough himself to have children who are school age then I would like to see the US Embassy undertake the cost of a proper grammer and high school, in US terms, education for these childlren, and if they then in years to come would be up to trying a college or technical college education, the US should likewise pay for that, soup to nuts.

This will not replace the if this made up by me scenario were true the loss of a parent but would at least compensate the widow if such exists, and the children, if they exist.

Otherwise whoever his natural next of kind is or would be should be paid adequate reparations and sincere apologies and condolences.

its unpayable, the only justice that can be done is the unconditional arrest of that american terrorist and give a oil massage belt beating on open public and then execute him..

for davis, he is a CIA terrorist, his activities must be exposed in the whole world, how he terrorised pakistan(isnt it what US is playing drama by implanting faisal shahzad), give him a public oil massage beating and then execute him in the full international media presence just like saddam hussain so that every human must know the naked truth of sinking ship of USA...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

It is because we made allies with snakes that we are in this mess...

No thank you...

 

[American Eagle]

Your thinking is cool headed and very logical.

My wife and I were on vacation in Europe a few years ago, in Germany, France, Belgium and Luxembourg. Everywhere we went power generating huge windmills were being put up. Trucks towing open trailers with the huge blades for new additional windmills were clogging the highways.

I took the trouble at that time at our hotel to use the Internet and found several European nations had set near term power generation goals via windmills, solar power, and particularly in the cases of France and Holland in terms of tidal power generation. The US and Pakistan are both laggards in getting to alternative power sources. True Pakistan has major water resources that can be tapped via more dams and hydro power but Pakistan could benefit both from tidal power and from solar and windmills.

It baffles me that we have these cheaper fuel and energy sources but are so darn slow to do anything with them.

Today I think France gets more than 25% of it's gross electrical power from windmills, and about 15% more electrical power from tidal hydro plants.

Germany has set a goal to be at 80% alternative fuel/power capability in just a few more years.

Holland is far ahead in using wind and tydal hudro power.

Russia runs around selling it's huge gas and oil supply to the free world, but could also build fields of windmills and solar generators and sell that excess power to the world, too.

What is wrong perhaps is the conventional developed power sources lobbiests world wide buy out or work hard in politics to defeat the elected national leadership required to bite the bullet and move into alternative power sources in a big way. What a shame!!!!

 

[WAQAS119]

No concessions to Davis: PTI | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

No concessions to Davis: PTI


LAHORE - Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf (PTI) Punjab President Ahsan Rashid has announced to pay three times more ‘compensation money’ to the victims’ families than the US government may offer for Raymond Davis’ release. He was addressing the participants of a demonstration held against Davis on Friday outside the US Consulate at the Shimla Hill.

 

[Awesome]

Ifran Baloch posted on a just closed out thread dealing with Raymond Davis and his alleged CIA mission as a certified US Diplomat with 100% Diplomatic Immunity.

Ifran's posting is civil and asks a fair question about the innocent Paksitani killed in the auto incident the same day that Raymond Davis faced attempted robbery at gun point.

IF what I have read in the international media over the weekend, if these stories are essentially correct, then the GOP acknowledges that the two US Embassy diplomats who might have been in the car in question were repatriated PDQ back to the US.

If this is correct in terms of my assumptions here, the of course the family of the man innocently killed in the accident deserves an absolute and humble apology and reparations if not yet paid must promtly be paid to the deceased Pakistani's family or next of kin.

I would go one step further. If he was old enough himself to have children who are school age then I would like to see the US Embassy undertake the cost of a proper grammer and high school, in US terms, education for these childlren, and if they then in years to come would be up to trying a college or technical college education, the US should likewise pay for that, soup to nuts.

This will not replace the if this made up by me scenario were true the loss of a parent but would at least compensate the widow if such exists, and the children, if they exist.

Otherwise whoever his natural next of kind is or would be should be paid adequate reparations and sincere apologies and condolences.

I will pay for his kid's education, from America we just want them to hand over the guilty parties.

 

[Peregrine]

Rumor has it that Davis will not be released anytime soon because of the fear of public backlash. I know this sucks for Pakistani expatriates especially the ones residing in USA but its a bitter pill for them to swallow. However, the duo of Kiyani & Zardari cannot be trusted, so this case will remain highly unpredictable until the final verdict by LHC is made public.

 

[American Eagle]

Your remarks reflect as sincere upset on your part. Have you considered voluntering to serve in the Pakistani military, police, or government civil service to help build by your own earnest efforts a better future for Pakistan?

As one who has lost family members in tragic accidents here in the USA myself I know the hurt one feels at such loss. But it is a mistake to categorize this accidential death as if it was an act of terrorism. It was a tragic accident, on roads I used to know well as horribly congested and crowed with trucks, jitnery taxis belching smoke that makes it hard to see to drive, with camel carts, horse carts, water buffalo carts, roundabouts and a nightmare job for any public traffic policeman to try to master. This is said from my 18 months living, working, and drive all over Pakistan myself, it is from my own first hand experience driving inside Pakistan.

With the immediate anti-American knee jerk reaction against the attempted robbery victum Raymond Davis I would say that two Americans were well advised to return immeidatley to the USA and leave it to the US State Dept to work out apologies and repatrations. There is no objective justice for diplomatic Americans honestly serving in our in common war on terrorism inside Pakistan today based on the majority of remarks on PDF under various threads on Mr. Davis over the past few weeks.

The real underlying cause of much of what we all are writing about from different view points is the admit that there is a religious civil war going on inside Pakistan and not enough Pakistani citizens are loyal to the GOP. People try harder to pull apart the existance and future of Paksitan than to help build, heal, and assure a better future for all the people in Pakistan.

But I admit sites such as this PDF do give an outlet to the raw emotions of those most affected, the native Paksitanis inside Pakistan. I have less tolerance for those overseas Paksitanis who if they love their homeland might better be back in Pakistan trying to help build a better nation on the scene vs. kibitzing from overseas.

ASIDE: The US does not truck with any terrorist groups that are about trying to harm, destory. or denegrate Pakistan in any way, shape, or form. This sort of wild eyed speculation from those not even living and working there in Pakistan is unhelpful and foolish, and harms the atmosphere for at home Paksitanis who need all the kept they and their nation can get from all her NATO allies for many generations to come.

 

[Tin Man]

This is their greatest folly. They fight imaginary bogey men instead of the real terrorists and extremists who are raping the country. Ofcourse, any call to approach the davies case with a rational mind is immediately thwarted.