RAW Is The Real Terrorist!

[was]

Ah yes, Icecold my old buddy, blueprints for nuclear warheads haan...

So from what I understand then, you heard that hindi movies are BS and were like yeah obviously and never watched any? I don't believe you, living in Pakistan and claiming to have never watched a hindi movie ever is ridiculous, anyways...

[/QUOTE

seriuosly speaking apart from indian comedy movies others are pure shits

 

[was]

Ah yes, Icecold my old buddy, blueprints for nuclear warheads haan...

So from what I understand then, you heard that hindi movies are BS and were like yeah obviously and never watched any? I don't believe you, living in Pakistan and claiming to have never watched a hindi movie ever is ridiculous, anyways...

It is you who brings in the US all the time not me, I never said that you depend on the US completely, I gave specific examples regarding the US, but all that was in response to your comment about the intl' community needing Pak. more than Pak. needs them. This is why I 'bring in the rest of the planet' because they constitute the intl' community.
Did I ever talk about the IP pipeline? what are you talking about? where does the IP pipeline fit in here?

My point is simple, Pakistan would not be able to function without periodic aid and assistance from the rest of the world, be it the US, China, SA or the IMF. Simple right? where's the argument here? to say things like they need us more than we need them is....'inappropriate'.

The point about China intervening, so you're saying you don't need any intervention because you are fully capable of handling any threat from India. When the time comes, you claim that you can handle the situation, I have been giving you examples from the past, where the time came, and you were incapable of handling the situation, simple. how can I say you were incapable, simple, the status-quo has remained unchanged. It is in our interest to maintain the status-quo, not yours.

I never said India is really trying to partition Pakistan again, it just won't happen, we're simply arming them to keep you busy, making life harder while we still can. who cares if you were successful or not? no matter who wins, its one less entity India has to worry about. You think the Taleban will ever do your bidding again?

First of all, what you need to understand is that Pakistan will not be able to play its little games in Afghanistan this time around, cannot happen with the US around, and don't believe that the US isn't there for the long haul, any idea how much gas CA has? Both the US and India are interested in a stable Afghanistan, it will give us a route to access the resources of central asia and make life easier on the whole for Afghans, the US will not allow Pakistan to wage war on Indians in Afghanistan while we are busy rebuilding their country, this is an economic war of sorts, Pakistan can offer nothing to Afghanistan except maybe threatening them with a proxy war into not siding with us. India provide them with money, indigenous weapons like the dhruv or maybe a few missiles here and there, if the LCA ever works out (can't really say too much there) maybe a couple of those and whatever else we can spare, kinda like what we do for Burma, we can provide them with diplomatic assistance, India is becoming more and more influential no matter what you claim, and having a friend like us (like having a friend like the US in india's case) will have bring its own benefits, India might even be able to facilitate some kind of trade agreement or resolve issues between Afghanistan and Russia. Why should India do all this? two reasons generally speaking, one, we have potential access to CA, and two, Pakistan has one more country to worry about, Afghanistan is no longer your playground, I'm not saying India can use them to wage a proxy war on you, I'm saying you have to protect your western border from your neighbor.

I want you to tell me what Pakistan has to offer to Afghanistan. My friend, the fun has already begun, you just need to wake and smell the coffee.

Oh and the part about beating the soviets. what the hell are you talking about Pakistan didn't beat the soviets, the Americans (more like the CIA) did.They used Pakistan as a base, got a whole bunch of 'mujhahideen' trained gave them weapons and fought the soivets down to the last Afghan/Arab/whoever else decided to join. You think any of this could've happened without American assistance? Pakistan was just a transit route man. The fact that Pak. then used the Taleban to its advantage, now that's something to talk about, that's what I call smart, at least up until 9/11, where it didn't quite work out, but that's a different story..or is it?

eurocopter copy
can india provide wheat for afghanistan
it is already doing it

 

[bellicose.mcbein]

well if you want proof

Pakistan present proves of Indian involvement in terror acts

you're kidding, right? is that an abstract?

its going to be a long day if we can't agree that these articles are just hearsay. hearsay is not admissible in many courtrooms precisely because the "speaker" is not under oath or indeed present in any way. he need not exist at all.

gossip, in other words.

you are doing a good job destroying your case against RAW. can you provide any articles with verifiable evidence, primary sources? or should i search a western periodical for that?

 

[DarkStar]

you're kidding, right? is that an abstract?

its going to be a long day if we can't agree that these articles are just hearsay. hearsay is not admissible in many courtrooms precisely because the "speaker" is not under oath or indeed present in any way. he need not exist at all.

gossip, in other words.

you are doing a good job destroying your case against RAW, but if you can provide verifiable evidence, primary sources, then i will accept it.

We're not sitting here in your courtroom, Mr. Justice Bellicose mcbein. We don't have to make you accept anything. If you want to brush everything aside, saying it is hearsay, that is your prerogative.

We are not your servants, sitting here to furnish you proof for everything, while you dismiss sources on such flimsy grounds.

After encountering countless Bharatis, here on the forum and outside, I have come to believe you are an intransigent lot.

If we as Pakistanis were to say it is daylight, you guys would refuse, saying it is night.

Against such anal disposition and constricted mindsets, what can anyone prove?

 

[bellicose.mcbein]

We're not sitting here in your courtroom, Mr. Justice Bellicose mcbein.

what else am i to go by? i won't take this journalist's word for it, darkstar. sorry.

can anyone provide a single article about raw support for these 3 terrorists that draws on primary sources? this is an international standard of journalistic integrity, not mine. i have not seen, for example, a single fact about where the cash is now, or if it was spent, where it was spent (citing receipts), paper trails, bank accounts, money laundering. none of that. zilch. zero.

how is a foreign observer to conclude that raw supports terrorists without evidence? it is a very hefty accusation, no one has provided any evidence whatsoever, much less "proof"

i'll be here all night, folks.

 

[was]

what else am i to go by? i won't take this journalist's word for it, darkstar. sorry.

can anyone provide a single article about raw support for these 3 terrorists that draws on primary sources? this is an international standard of journalistic integrity, not mine. i have not seen, for example, a single fact about where the cash is now, or if it was spent, where it was spent (citing receipts), paper trails, bank accounts, money laundering. none of that. zilch. zero.

how is a foreign observer to conclude that raw supports terrorists without evidence? it is a very hefty accusation, no one has provided any evidence whatsoever, much less "proof"

i'll be here all night, folks.

what you want man i have no links with intelligence agencies

 

[DarkStar]

Salman, Did you also not read the numerous reports of Hindu girls being kidnapped in Pakistan and forcibly converted and married off to Muslims? I can't believe you didn't.

The reality is a bit (just a wee bit) different from what you want to project and unfortunately for you, in the age of the internet its difficult to hoodwink people.

It is normal practice in Pakistan to report an abduction, whenever lovers elope. Ostensibly, teh police have an ulterior motive in bringing such an FIR against the boy who "bhagaos" the girl, i.e. money.

The same thing happens when a christian or Hindu girl decides to marry a muslim. Their parents scream "abduction", and the police have to "produce" the girl. The only way to escape, is to rush to the registry office, and get a civil marriage ceremony (called a "court marriage") asap. Even then, the couple may have to end up in court to explain that it is not a forced marriage.

Compare that to the thousands upon thousands of muslim girls abducted in what is now Bhaarati PUnjabi during the riots at partition, forced to convert and marry(become a sex slave) local sikhs/hindus. Visit any of the villages in the affected areas of Punjab, HImachal Pradesh, and you will see these old women with names like zeenat, fatima and aisha...

 

[bellicose.mcbein]

what you want man i have no links with intelligence agencies

ok well then don't derogate american/jewish/christian/israeli owned newspapers for neglecting to mention RAW because there aren't any facts to back the story up!

not worth the paper its printed on.

 

[Vinod2070]

It is normal practice in Pakistan to report an abduction, whenever lovers elope. Ostensibly, teh police have an ulterior motive in bringing such an FIR against the boy who "bhagaos" the girl, i.e. money.

The same thing happens when a christian or Hindu girl decides to marry a muslim. Their parents scream "abduction", and the police have to "produce" the girl. The only way to escape, is to rush to the registry office, and get a civil marriage ceremony (called a "court marriage") asap. Even then, the couple may have to end up in court to explain that it is not a forced marriage.

Compare that to the thousands upon thousands of muslim girls abducted in what is now Bhaarati PUnjabi during the riots at partition, forced to convert and marry(become a sex slave) local sikhs/hindus. Visit any of the villages in the affected areas of Punjab, HImachal Pradesh, and you will see these old women with names like zeenat, fatima and aisha...

Many unspeakable crimes did happen during partition and it happened on both sides. Have the courage to accept that people on both sides behaved despicably as a kind of raw animal spirit destroyed the humanity to a large extent.

What you are saying about Indian Punjab may well be true. Don't shy away from accepting that it may happened in Pakistani Punjab too (perhaps to a larger extent).

And obviously the Sindh reports that I read in papers (Pakistani papers to boot) were not in the category that you are trying to project here.

And don't think people don't know how Hadood laws and the blasphemy laws have been (mis)used against the women and the minorities in Pakistan innumerable times.

You are in no position to be sanctimonious!

You guys may seem happy with this little sideshow trying to vent your frustration on India, it doesn't change the reality.

And you will have to face the reality sooner than later.

 

[Vinod2070]

Please be informed that Jajiya is only for non believers living in islamic state.
At the moment there is no true islamic state exists in world.so it is not applicable any where.

Thanking you that you accpted the week social structure of indian society that is the reason there is need to establish RAW ,RSS type of terrorist organisations in india to keep minorities supressed.

Darkness has no existance it is due to absence of light .

Very soon india has to accept right demand of independence of minorities and india will be known as history as happened with USSR.

I think you need to read the post again and reply to the points. Sidestepping the issues only means you have no answer andI already know that.

Trying to raise one finger against others is fine, just note the direction of the other four fingers.

They are pointing back at you!

 

[muse]

Friends this in not WAB - here we want to discuss issues and imagine that Islam and muslims are "guilty and must prove their innocence" of anything.

The issue at hand is not Islam, Muslims, Hindus or religions or adherents, there may be realtions but lets not lose our focus -- on the other hand, there is WAB and plenty of other boards where you may get your fix of Islam and muslims "guilty until proven innocent".

 

[Vinod2070]

I agree. The discussion is unnecessarily going in a wrong direction.

 

[donrahul]

So Pakistan created ISI to give alms to the poor and offer protection the Haj pilgrims?

 

[was]

ok well then don't derogate american/jewish/christian/israeli owned newspapers for neglecting to mention RAW because there aren't any facts to back the story up!

not worth the paper its printed on.

did you have any proofs that saddam was going for w.m.d??????
what are you doing here???.already sayed we are not in your courtoom.


this trhread is ,raw is the real terrorist, and i am just posting article like everyone else deos on this forum.

 

[IceCold]

Ah yes, Icecold my old buddy, blueprints for nuclear warheads haan...

So from what I understand then, you heard that hindi movies are BS and were like yeah obviously and never watched any? I don't believe you, living in Pakistan and claiming to have never watched a hindi movie ever is ridiculous, anyways...

It is you who brings in the US all the time not me, I never said that you depend on the US completely, I gave specific examples regarding the US, but all that was in response to your comment about the intl' community needing Pak. more than Pak. needs them. This is why I 'bring in the rest of the planet' because they constitute the intl' community.
Did I ever talk about the IP pipeline? what are you talking about? where does the IP pipeline fit in here?

My point is simple, Pakistan would not be able to function without periodic aid and assistance from the rest of the world, be it the US, China, SA or the IMF. Simple right? where's the argument here? to say things like they need us more than we need them is....'inappropriate'.

The point about China intervening, so you're saying you don't need any intervention because you are fully capable of handling any threat from India. When the time comes, you claim that you can handle the situation, I have been giving you examples from the past, where the time came, and you were incapable of handling the situation, simple. how can I say you were incapable, simple, the status-quo has remained unchanged. It is in our interest to maintain the status-quo, not yours.

I never said India is really trying to partition Pakistan again, it just won't happen, we're simply arming them to keep you busy, making life harder while we still can. who cares if you were successful or not? no matter who wins, its one less entity India has to worry about. You think the Taleban will ever do your bidding again?

First of all, what you need to understand is that Pakistan will not be able to play its little games in Afghanistan this time around, cannot happen with the US around, and don't believe that the US isn't there for the long haul, any idea how much gas CA has? Both the US and India are interested in a stable Afghanistan, it will give us a route to access the resources of central asia and make life easier on the whole for Afghans, the US will not allow Pakistan to wage war on Indians in Afghanistan while we are busy rebuilding their country, this is an economic war of sorts, Pakistan can offer nothing to Afghanistan except maybe threatening them with a proxy war into not siding with us. India provide them with money, indigenous weapons like the dhruv or maybe a few missiles here and there, if the LCA ever works out (can't really say too much there) maybe a couple of those and whatever else we can spare, kinda like what we do for Burma, we can provide them with diplomatic assistance, India is becoming more and more influential no matter what you claim, and having a friend like us (like having a friend like the US in india's case) will have bring its own benefits, India might even be able to facilitate some kind of trade agreement or resolve issues between Afghanistan and Russia. Why should India do all this? two reasons generally speaking, one, we have potential access to CA, and two, Pakistan has one more country to worry about, Afghanistan is no longer your playground, I'm not saying India can use them to wage a proxy war on you, I'm saying you have to protect your western border from your neighbor.

I want you to tell me what Pakistan has to offer to Afghanistan. My friend, the fun has already begun, you just need to wake and smell the coffee.

Oh and the part about beating the soviets. what the hell are you talking about Pakistan didn't beat the soviets, the Americans (more like the CIA) did.They used Pakistan as a base, got a whole bunch of 'mujhahideen' trained gave them weapons and fought the soivets down to the last Afghan/Arab/whoever else decided to join. You think any of this could've happened without American assistance? Pakistan was just a transit route man. The fact that Pak. then used the Taleban to its advantage, now that's something to talk about, that's what I call smart, at least up until 9/11, where it didn't quite work out, but that's a different story..or is it?

Whatever man, really i am fine if everything that you said above makes you feel better or have a good nite sleep, I dont mind at all. By the way i never was your old buddy.