Rant: I'm Really Pissed Off At What's Happening In The World!
- Thread starter OrionHunter
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BannuTorkham
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The World was always like this at every point of time...
Just that globalization has made news reach too fast... to too many people... and enabled too many people to share that news
Just that globalization has made news reach too fast... to too many people... and enabled too many people to share that news
xTra
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And even some Israeli soldiers dont agree with you:
Breaking the Silence is an organization of veteran combatants who have served in the Israeli military since the start of the Second Intifada and have taken it upon themselves to expose the Israeli public to the reality of everyday life in the Occupied Territories. We endeavor to stimulate public debate about the price paid for a reality in which young soldiers face a civilian population on a daily basis, and are engaged in the control of that population’s everyday life.
Soldiers who serve in the Territories witness and participate in military actions which change them immensely. Cases of abuse towards Palestinians, looting, and destruction of property have been the norm for years, but are still explained as extreme and unique cases. Our testimonies portray a different, and much grimmer picture in which deterioration of moral standards finds expression in the character of orders and the rules of engagement, and are justified in the name of Israel's security. While this reality is known to Israeli soldiers and commanders, Israeli society continues to turn a blind eye, and to deny that what is done in its name. Discharged soldiers returning to civilian life discover the gap between the reality they encountered in the Territories, and the silence about this reality they encounter at home. In order to become civilians again, soldiers are forced to ignore what they have seen and done. We strive to make heard the voices of these soldiers, pushing Israeli society to face the reality whose creation it has enabled.
We collect and publish testimonies from soldiers who, like us, have served in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem since September 2000, and hold lectures, house meetings, and other public events which bring to light the reality in the Territories through the voice of former combatants. We also conduct tours in Hebron and the South Hebron Hills region, with the aim of giving the Israeli public access to the reality which exists minutes from their own homes, yet is rarely portrayed in the media.
Founded in March 2004 by a group of soldiers who served in Hebron, Breaking the Silence has since acquired a special standing in the eyes of the Israeli public and in the media, as it is unique in giving voice to the experience of soldiers. To date, the organization has collected more than 950 testimonies from soldiers who represent all strata of Israeli society and cover nearly all units that operate in the Territories. All the testimonies we publish are meticulously researched, and all facts are cross-checked with additional eye-witnesses and/or the archives of other human rights organizations also active in the field. Every soldier who gives a testimony to Breaking the Silence knows the aims of the organization and the interview. Most soldiers choose to remain anonymous, due to various pressures from official military persons and society at large. Our first priority is to the soldiers who choose to testify to the public about their service.
Breaking the Silence › Organization
I think this Israeli organization has a stronger say than you! Breaking the Silence › Organization
Coz there arent many left alive who can give new pictures to feed you!
Interesting habit of denial!
Very true..and please note, I learnt this from your usual ranting posts............
Coz there arent many left alive who can give new pictures to feed you!
Interesting habit of denial!
u mean all palestinians are dead already !
OrionHunter
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And to add to all what's screwing up this world, my wife is pissed off at me too for spending more time on PDF than attending to her shenanigans!! 
Jeeez!
Jeeez!
imran169
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and the 1984 massacre too..! if i m not mistaken with year you TROLL...!
Pakistanisage
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God is taking care of business and eventually we are moving towards World Peace sans Israel.
Dubious
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@OrionHunter try reading some rants from your friends the Israelis:
Breaking the Silence › Database
They don't regret a single killing
testimony catalog number: 6642
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Engineering Corps
area: Gaza strip
period: 2003
We were busy exposing a tunnel in Rafah. We went for a house. I shot an armed militant and his weapon fell. He managed to crawl out. . . you see someone was trying to steal the weapon, you fire without seeing the person, so you shoot in some general direction. Dragging the weapon is just the same as carrying it. Although, there were lots of little kids who were introduced to the street to pick up the weapons. Should I tell you there was no preventive shooting at walls? There was preventive shooting at walls. On the way back, no one had any regrets. We were comparing who had fired at the largest number of people. I was ridiculed for not having killed the armed militant, for just having wounded and not killed him. Then the guys started counting how many each of them had killed and they talked about warfare methods. Then someone gave as an example the fact that, before the Palestinians learned the rules of the game, there were times when our guys would take positions and shoot at armed men just running around in the street, and they were so close that everyone was shooting them. So they begin counting off how many each one had shot, and bickering over whose that one was, and whose the other one was. Is this reasonable, humane?! In the Givati rangers, for example, after one of their combatants was killed and six of their men were wounded while entering a house, his team – each one of the men on it already had over ten kills to his name -- people had killed so many people that their mind was completely screwed up. Their mind was so far from there, they had experienced things that I don't think anyone our age should go through. What are you going to say to these people? Each of them had shot someone at least once. They're all terribly professional and make sure he's armed, but terribly glad they'd killed the guy. If it was an armed man, then it's a good deed. In this surreal reality of twenty-year olds, certainly they don't regret a single killing.
You place a 5-kg explosive charge
testimony catalog number: 4595
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Golani Brigade
area: Tulkarem area
period: April 2002
The first time we were involved in serious fighting, I think, was in Operation Defensive Shield. Our whole crew there got into the thick of things
Where were you?
In Defensive Shield, we began at Tul Karm.
And what did you do there?
There was this new procedure at the time there, of passing through walls. First we tried hammers, but that didn't work. I mean, pretty soon you realize it's no good because as soon as you enter the older areas, the houses are built of stone and a hammer doesn't do it. So you place a 5-kg explosive charge, even twice, and only then do you get a small hole in the wall and pass on to the next house. That's it. Essentially destruction there was going on at an insane level, huge. I think it spared a lot of lives, perhaps soldiers' too, because we had no contact with the enemy, you know. We saw all kinds of explosive charges through the windows and we were going through the walls, but it was sad on a personal level to see that each house you entered would be totally destroyed from the blast, nothing would remain intact. You only saw the street you searched, but you knew that it was the same throughout the town.
Morals and war don't go together
testimony catalog number: 57738
rank: Lieutenant
unit: Education Corps
area: Gaza strip
period: 2003
As an education officer, you said you had to analyze and evaluate some value or educational content of the events. Who addressed you, if at all, about this? What were they looking for?
In general, it was the commanders. I mean, I worked mostly with them on this, all kinds of staff officers at the division HQ. In general we weren't that much, and my commander, the division education officer, would have to push all kinds of things to the staff officers.
Like what?
Like he would always want me and the two other officers in the brigades to take investigations from the war-room and operations and intelligence and analyze them on the moral-values level.
What sort of things did you see in those reports? You mean values or things that happened?
Yes, in that sense. Good question. I remember that, in general, I related to these things as if I didn't have the tools to determine what value was manifested in the fact that a soldier looted some Palestinian home.
Was that even an issue in investigations?
Usually we did these "value analyses". I mean, there wasn't some prescribed de-briefing on which we'd place some educational frame, some values, but rather these incidents that involved human dignity and such, we'd simply write it up ourselves, the whole thing. It also seemed pretty pretentious to me to scold them, tell them it was out of line. One of my assignments was to always issue various propaganda bulletins. I don't know, I felt like the propaganda minister of the Nazis or something. It was this really fascist stuff, I had to tell them what value they had violated in what they did, why this was important and why we should never this again. Practically speaking, who am I and do I think I am, I who have no idea of values, or of warfare, and what good would it do, anyway. I mean, they are obliged to do these things, and if something doesn't break inside you, like I said earlier, then you simply can't function. So you'll get discharged on psychological grounds, or you'll be a conscientious objector, or you'll shoot yourself in the head, or something will break and you'll turn into some, I don't know… Frankly, I'd sit there facing this "Spirit of the IDF" document and try to analyze the values and simply couldn't believe a word I read there and I couldn't care less because it seemed to me so totally unconnected, so detached, and not about what the hell we're doing in this place. If we're in this place then what is the point of talking values? Morals and war don't go together.
What did the system expect you to do?
It expected us to insert the most… to prepare these kits for commanders. So if a platoon commander briefs his soldiers or something, then at the end when he gets to the punch line, to what is to be done and conclusions, then he also talks about values and somehow passes the spirit of the IDF on to the soldiers, and so all the soldiers will fight according to a lovely ethical code all cool and printed out on a nice blue page.
And it didn't work because it's irrelevant, or because it simply wasn't handed on?
First of all, we didn't get that much cooperation, I think that *** used to tell me that there was more cooperation in Hebron, more preparing the staff and such. Also, there was something very, I mean company commanders would give lectures on battle heritage and try to motivate their soldiers and teach them values, which is what I think a commander is supposed to do.
When the brigade commander knows there's been a mission and soldiers have looted a lot, or when the battalion or division commanders know there was a mission and their soldiers trashed houses like crazy, what would the commanders do about it?
It really depends on the commander personally. I happened to work under to different division commanders in my time. The first was very operational. He wasn't interested. He wouldn't let the education corps in anywhere. Very gung-ho, know-it-all type. The second was very accommodating, consulted a lot, especially with my commander, the division education officer, but I was always included. He talked about values and tried to introduce them himself as well. There were commanders who did it because they thought it was right and they really believed in things and there were commanders who couldn't care less. I mean, a commander who comes back from such a mission and knows these things happen can stand and have a talk with his soldiers. He doesn't need me for that.
And they did?
Some did, others didn't. Those who didn't, even when I pushed them to do it, that didn't help. So to me, my job seemed a bit…
At the end of the day it depends on personality? There's no coping on the part of the system as a whole, it's left to the whims of each commander?
I don't know if they didn't have meetings, if a battalion commander didn't raise it with his brigade or division commander, "Listen, we have a problem here." I imagine that if this were a common phenomenon and the commander really cared, he would bring it up somewhere. To tell you that they really broke their heads over this while figuring out what kind of mission to carry out in Rafah – I don't know, really.
Breaking the Silence › Database
They don't regret a single killing
testimony catalog number: 6642
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Engineering Corps
area: Gaza strip
period: 2003
We were busy exposing a tunnel in Rafah. We went for a house. I shot an armed militant and his weapon fell. He managed to crawl out. . . you see someone was trying to steal the weapon, you fire without seeing the person, so you shoot in some general direction. Dragging the weapon is just the same as carrying it. Although, there were lots of little kids who were introduced to the street to pick up the weapons. Should I tell you there was no preventive shooting at walls? There was preventive shooting at walls. On the way back, no one had any regrets. We were comparing who had fired at the largest number of people. I was ridiculed for not having killed the armed militant, for just having wounded and not killed him. Then the guys started counting how many each of them had killed and they talked about warfare methods. Then someone gave as an example the fact that, before the Palestinians learned the rules of the game, there were times when our guys would take positions and shoot at armed men just running around in the street, and they were so close that everyone was shooting them. So they begin counting off how many each one had shot, and bickering over whose that one was, and whose the other one was. Is this reasonable, humane?! In the Givati rangers, for example, after one of their combatants was killed and six of their men were wounded while entering a house, his team – each one of the men on it already had over ten kills to his name -- people had killed so many people that their mind was completely screwed up. Their mind was so far from there, they had experienced things that I don't think anyone our age should go through. What are you going to say to these people? Each of them had shot someone at least once. They're all terribly professional and make sure he's armed, but terribly glad they'd killed the guy. If it was an armed man, then it's a good deed. In this surreal reality of twenty-year olds, certainly they don't regret a single killing.
You place a 5-kg explosive charge
testimony catalog number: 4595
rank: Staff Sergeant
unit: Golani Brigade
area: Tulkarem area
period: April 2002
The first time we were involved in serious fighting, I think, was in Operation Defensive Shield. Our whole crew there got into the thick of things
Where were you?
In Defensive Shield, we began at Tul Karm.
And what did you do there?
There was this new procedure at the time there, of passing through walls. First we tried hammers, but that didn't work. I mean, pretty soon you realize it's no good because as soon as you enter the older areas, the houses are built of stone and a hammer doesn't do it. So you place a 5-kg explosive charge, even twice, and only then do you get a small hole in the wall and pass on to the next house. That's it. Essentially destruction there was going on at an insane level, huge. I think it spared a lot of lives, perhaps soldiers' too, because we had no contact with the enemy, you know. We saw all kinds of explosive charges through the windows and we were going through the walls, but it was sad on a personal level to see that each house you entered would be totally destroyed from the blast, nothing would remain intact. You only saw the street you searched, but you knew that it was the same throughout the town.
Morals and war don't go together
testimony catalog number: 57738
rank: Lieutenant
unit: Education Corps
area: Gaza strip
period: 2003
As an education officer, you said you had to analyze and evaluate some value or educational content of the events. Who addressed you, if at all, about this? What were they looking for?
In general, it was the commanders. I mean, I worked mostly with them on this, all kinds of staff officers at the division HQ. In general we weren't that much, and my commander, the division education officer, would have to push all kinds of things to the staff officers.
Like what?
Like he would always want me and the two other officers in the brigades to take investigations from the war-room and operations and intelligence and analyze them on the moral-values level.
What sort of things did you see in those reports? You mean values or things that happened?
Yes, in that sense. Good question. I remember that, in general, I related to these things as if I didn't have the tools to determine what value was manifested in the fact that a soldier looted some Palestinian home.
Was that even an issue in investigations?
Usually we did these "value analyses". I mean, there wasn't some prescribed de-briefing on which we'd place some educational frame, some values, but rather these incidents that involved human dignity and such, we'd simply write it up ourselves, the whole thing. It also seemed pretty pretentious to me to scold them, tell them it was out of line. One of my assignments was to always issue various propaganda bulletins. I don't know, I felt like the propaganda minister of the Nazis or something. It was this really fascist stuff, I had to tell them what value they had violated in what they did, why this was important and why we should never this again. Practically speaking, who am I and do I think I am, I who have no idea of values, or of warfare, and what good would it do, anyway. I mean, they are obliged to do these things, and if something doesn't break inside you, like I said earlier, then you simply can't function. So you'll get discharged on psychological grounds, or you'll be a conscientious objector, or you'll shoot yourself in the head, or something will break and you'll turn into some, I don't know… Frankly, I'd sit there facing this "Spirit of the IDF" document and try to analyze the values and simply couldn't believe a word I read there and I couldn't care less because it seemed to me so totally unconnected, so detached, and not about what the hell we're doing in this place. If we're in this place then what is the point of talking values? Morals and war don't go together.
What did the system expect you to do?
It expected us to insert the most… to prepare these kits for commanders. So if a platoon commander briefs his soldiers or something, then at the end when he gets to the punch line, to what is to be done and conclusions, then he also talks about values and somehow passes the spirit of the IDF on to the soldiers, and so all the soldiers will fight according to a lovely ethical code all cool and printed out on a nice blue page.
And it didn't work because it's irrelevant, or because it simply wasn't handed on?
First of all, we didn't get that much cooperation, I think that *** used to tell me that there was more cooperation in Hebron, more preparing the staff and such. Also, there was something very, I mean company commanders would give lectures on battle heritage and try to motivate their soldiers and teach them values, which is what I think a commander is supposed to do.
When the brigade commander knows there's been a mission and soldiers have looted a lot, or when the battalion or division commanders know there was a mission and their soldiers trashed houses like crazy, what would the commanders do about it?
It really depends on the commander personally. I happened to work under to different division commanders in my time. The first was very operational. He wasn't interested. He wouldn't let the education corps in anywhere. Very gung-ho, know-it-all type. The second was very accommodating, consulted a lot, especially with my commander, the division education officer, but I was always included. He talked about values and tried to introduce them himself as well. There were commanders who did it because they thought it was right and they really believed in things and there were commanders who couldn't care less. I mean, a commander who comes back from such a mission and knows these things happen can stand and have a talk with his soldiers. He doesn't need me for that.
And they did?
Some did, others didn't. Those who didn't, even when I pushed them to do it, that didn't help. So to me, my job seemed a bit…
At the end of the day it depends on personality? There's no coping on the part of the system as a whole, it's left to the whims of each commander?
I don't know if they didn't have meetings, if a battalion commander didn't raise it with his brigade or division commander, "Listen, we have a problem here." I imagine that if this were a common phenomenon and the commander really cared, he would bring it up somewhere. To tell you that they really broke their heads over this while figuring out what kind of mission to carry out in Rafah – I don't know, really.
BannuTorkham
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xTra
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God take care of those, who take care of themselves.
Dubious
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Wow conclusion of a delusional being!
And you conclude all dead no wonder you love your media! You are just like it!
Pulsar
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He was talking about wars, not sponsored stone throwing!
Dubious
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You mean the Jews were ranting (coz I copied and pasted as it was on the website = their words)? and only you sitting in India know the truth?
PurpleButcher
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if you are so pissed move to westros and eastros... from Game of thrones
xTra
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You mean the Jews were ranting (coz I copied and pasted as it was on the website = their words)? and only you sitting in India know the truth?
I am off......You can carry on with your ranting.
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