Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars

[Tea addict]

The point of this thread is to discuss tribal, clan identity among Pakistanis. Brother Taimoor has done a great job and I believe that its good for Pakistanis to discuss these topics among ourselves openly to have a more consolidated identity based on our heritage as sons/daughters of the IVC and Irani tribes which settled Pakistan.

You are not a part of this discussion.

I gain nothing from proving anything to you. Stop trolling here.

Don't come up with "indian Hindu Rajputs" in your discussion further with him and I won't come here even to take a piss.

 

[Placemat]

Says darkies who claim Irani blood. Give us a break. Accept your Southern heritage.



It is an incidental trait of many Rajput clans and does not mean we are superior. We also tend to have curly hair in more abundance than other Punjabis, along with green eyes and brown hair. Mostly however we are known for our height and muscular build.

However even dark-skinned Pakistanis look very different compared to Indians, as we generally all have long noses, longer face, and tend to be more muscular, tall build.

We are totally different civilizations, racially and culturally.

Firstly I know who I am and fully accept Nd happy and proud with it.
I am suggesting to you in order to remove your confusion you are not jat or Rp because after conversion to Islam no one can say what blood is there. And I don't say that in a bad way. Islam attempts an extreme degree of homogenization by marrying into various races tribes community and in India's case , castes. So there is a great chance that rp jat rtf have Arabic Turkic central Asian or African blood. Also definitely some Mongol genes because of Genghis Khans army.
So please don't take what I said the two g way and I don't mean. To troll

Ps the word Mughal itself means Mongol.

Says darkies who claim Irani blood. Give us a break. Accept your Southern heritage.



It is an incidental trait of many Rajput clans and does not mean we are superior. We also tend to have curly hair in more abundance than other Punjabis, along with green eyes and brown hair. Mostly however we are known for our height and muscular build.

However even dark-skinned Pakistanis look very different compared to Indians, as we generally all have long noses, longer face, and tend to be more muscular, tall build.

We are totally different civilizations, racially and culturally.

Rajputs look the way you mentioned because of the input of genes from other parts of Islamic world. Curly hair - African. Brown hair - Persian or Turkish, green eyes - Turkish or c Asian which in turn is Caucasian. Muscular build- native rajputs maybe. Angular nose - Afghan probably.
Hence I rest my case.

 

[Kabira]

You know one has to marry outside gotra in gotra marriage tradition? As a matter of fact you marry outside 3 gotra -- your own,your mother's and your grandmother's.This is done to avoid intermixing which leads to many diseases in offspringsas we can we in cousin marriage cases.

Hindus don't avoid cousin marriages because of genetic disorder, its more of cultural thing. I've read somewhere that it was to avoid being to near village of bride. Europeans are the ones that made cousin marriages taboo after 18th century for scientific reasons.

In Zoroastrian which is considered religion from same source as hinduism aka steppe as @pedamchan will confirm marriages are even allowed between son and mother and father and daughter, brother and sister.

 

[Placemat]

Hindus don't avoid cousin marriages because of genetic disorder, its more of cultural thing. I've read somewhere that it was to avoid being to near village of bride. Europeans are the ones that made cousin marriages taboo after 18th century for scientific reasons.

In Zoroastrian which is considered religion from same source as hinduism aka steppe as @pedamchan will confirm marriages are even allowed between son and mother and father and daughter, brother and sister.

Wrong Zoroastrianism is the precursor to monotheistic religions. It is the first to have this concept of one God. There was no connection bw Hinduism and Zoroastrianism. As for cousin marriages there are rules in Hinduism which had the gotram concept where you cannot marry paternally. But other rules for cousin marriages exists in the south altho slowly losing ground. I don't completely agree in this day and age with 1 billion Hindus but it's what it is..

 

[SorryNotSorry]

Lol at this thread.

 

[Sam.]

Not at all, we should never break our links with our ancestors; these three groups combined would make up a majority of Punjab's population. Yes, some of them overlap into India and even Afghanistan; but their heartland is in Pakistan.

All of these groups are significantly higher proportion in Pakistan than they are in India.

Jat population:
Pakistan: 16%
India: 2-3%

Gujjar population:
Pakistan: 10-15% (varies on sources)
India: 1-2% (varies on sources)

Rajput population:
Pakistan: 8-10%
India: 3.43%

Bogus so please share source.

I've seen with my own two eyes Rajputs from Rajasthan embrace Pakistani ones as kin. Here in the UK we have many such events where Rajputs (Indian) gather and will invite along Pakistani Rajput friends.

Here;

Although I will agree there are some who don't see how you can be Rajput and not a follower of Sanatana Dharma, but I have found them in the minority. The other views are as follows;
-It's a bloodline and so therefore even non-Hindus ones are kin.
-They don't really care.

It's same with us as we open our arms for Pakistani Jats too as our kins.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am suggesting to you in order to remove your confusion you are not jat or Rp because after conversion to Islam no one can say what blood is there.

Lol. Then please move along.

This thread has nothing to do with you.

Rajputs look the way you mentioned because of the input of genes from other parts of Islamic world. Curly hair - African. Brown hair - Persian or Turkish, green eyes - Turkish or c Asian which in turn is Caucasian. Muscular build- native rajputs maybe. Angular nose - Afghan probably.
Hence I rest my case.

What kind of laughable BS is this?

Don't come up with "indian Hindu Rajputs" in your discussion further with him and I won't come here even to take a piss.

You can’t control what Pakistanis discuss with themselves on a Pakistani forum.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Nice but you didn't told me your background. Baloch?

Rajput from both sides.

If it comes to real Rajputs, the rural conservative Rajputs of Rajasthan don't even consider half of indian Rajputs as Rajputs. They just laugh when they hear term like "Pakistani Rajputs".

Number of fake Rajputs is lot more then we think.
In Pakistan tradition of maintaining lineage is dying.I have seen people's around me who won't marry out of tribe.
But these fake Rajputs can be tracked.At village level there is a lineage custodian,who has got lineage of every person in village.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

I've seen with my own two eyes Rajputs from Rajasthan embrace Pakistani ones as kin. Here in the UK we have many such events where Rajputs (Indian) gather and will invite along Pakistani Rajput friends.

Here;

Although I will agree there are some who don't see how you can be Rajput and not a follower of Sanatana Dharma, but I have found them in the minority. The other views are as follows;
-It's a bloodline and so therefore even non-Hindus ones are kin.
-They don't really care.

This is unfortunately the exception and not the rule.

 

[Max]

I care not what you think. Rajputs are Rajputs and Pakistan is full of them.

From the military, parliament, to the judiciary, we have a strong presence at all levels of government.

Several of my relatives are famous and well-known personalities in Pakistan.

Pakistan is as much a Rajput nation as it is a Pukhtoon nation or Kashmiri nation.

Our Islamicization and alliance with the Mughals made us not only the rulers of Punjab, but the whole of the Indus and Hindustan.

We don’t share your contempt of Muslims, in fact we view ourselves as the great defenders and protectors of Islam.

To all our Punjab-hating, (self claimed) Pakistani posters (OP included): please stop posting such useless and stupid threads and comments (using multiple ids) ... We should give up identifying ourselves with our tribes and castes to distance ourselves from the Indians? ... Okay, but then the Pashtuns should also stop identifying themselves with their tribes and clans to distance themselves from the Afghanis ... And the Baloch should also do the same to distance themselves from Iranians... Only a class A idiot could have come up with such an idea ... !!

Thread full of inferiority complex. Thankfully Rajputs, Gujjar, Jats don't suffer from this inferiority, they are more son of soil then these wanna be Iranic and Arabs.

Most Nishan e Haider if I am not wrong belongs to Rajputs..

 

[Sine Nomine]

Lol @ this thread. There might be some Rajputs in the Sindh-Rajasthan border areas in Pakistan. But that's about it. Ridiculous how Pakistanis can claim to be Rajputs otherwise though.

Rajputs of Northern Region to begin with.

Thread full of inferiority complex. Thankfully Rajputs, Gujjar, Jats don't suffer from this inferiority, they are more son of soil then these wanna be Iranic and Arabs.

I hate them to core.

 

[Sam.]

Thread full of inferiority complex. Thankfully Rajputs, Gujjar, Jats don't suffer from this inferiority, they are more son of soil then these wanna be Iranic and Arabs.

Most Nishan e Haider if I am not wrong belongs to Rajputs..

Indeed they are son of the soil and they die for their motherland be it India or Pakistan.

 

[Great Janjua]

Don't come up with "indian Hindu Rajputs" in your discussion further with him and I won't come here even to take a piss.

Oh tu kira vada rajput ah giya machoda rajput rajput kari jandai mera sala na hovai Thay. asi thay thuk thay vi ni tuwade thay masali thi aulad. aiya vada rajput

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistani jets rajputs are only in name. After they were conquered by mughals or decided to convert for patronage during Mughal period they inter married with Muslims from the west and hence cannot be claiming themselves to be pure blood. This is fine because there is no need to explicitly break their connections with India. They just need to stop calling themselves these because they aren't really from these clans/ castes

There were muslim Rajputs even before the mughals came.

For example, Babur hated Raja Hasan Khan (Muslim rajput) who sided with rana sanga against him.

Hassan Khan died on the battlefield while rana sanga (a hindu) fled the battle .. but later died.

You talk about muslim rajputs marryin into mughals? However there exists no such union in history.. but most of mughals had hindu rajput mothers.. even aurangzebs.
And those hindu rajput states had mughal patronage.

And only became “independent” after the decline of Aurangzeb & his empire.. only to be ruled again by the british.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Funny thing about this lie is that only indian Hindu Rajputs follow gotra marriage tradition which is solely based on lineage and clan. It's only the Hindu Rajputs whose 300-400 years old lineage can be easily found as we preserve it in Haridwar and update it after death or birth of any member. What's more funny is that the Rajputs of Rajputana don't even consider Pakistani Rajputs as Rajputs.

They have no idea what they are talking about. Ultimately, it boils down to the same crap about taller, fairer and 'different'. Like the brand of tomato ketchup; they can't define how it is different, they just know that when they wake up in the morning, they are different.

Ignore these lazy, ignorant threads.

We do same,lineage over 800 years is preserved and updated.

These are the only genuine records, but while Hindus have a very systematic and centralised repository, I am curious to know how it is preserved outside.

@Tea addict

While the repository in your parts are those who preserve the records in Hardwar, in the east it is Gaya and Puri, and the south has an incredibly accurate system. I know of one family, part of a sub-set of a larger grouping, that came to Mysore in around the year 1000 AD, and has an unbroken record of its own and its collateral lines up to date. The record is a public one, and may be seen by any interested person, and is updated by an authorised person with each birth in each generation - the information has to be forwarded. Unfortunately, as is all too frequent in our paternalistic system, only men's names are recorded.

Just as a curiousity, my own family's records are available both in Gaya and in Puri, and go back 30 generations.

@Taimur Khurram these are clans not titles.

I am curious to know why Pakistanis speaking on these topics are completely unable to distinguish between Rajput, Gujjar and Jat. Do they think these are the same? It is a possibility for a certain very specific reason, but I would like to know from a knowledgeable Pakistani, rather than assume something.

Rajput, Jat and Gujjar are not clans, they're communities who intermarry with each other. Hence why I'm rather mixed about Pakistanis identifying with them.



Could I please see some sources?



I never said we should, but the fact is that when it comes to ancestry, it's your paternal clan that matters. Gujjar, Jat and Rajput clans don't all come from the same origin. Different clans among them have different origins.

According to you, what is a community, what is a clan and what is a title?

From what background? Will be interesting to know ...in our case we update it after marriage : like from which village the bride is from,her clan,her parents etc..after birth - like what is the name of new member, birthplace etc..after death : that this member has died and died at this place..other than that we also update where we are currently living as I updated my residence as a urban city while my father and last 3 generation residence is in my village and before that another big village which is a tehsil now..I have records of last 11 generation with all their names,whom they married or married off to..where they migrated and that..and before that the subdivision in clan decided our history as a division in clan is named after one person whom we all are decended from.

Fascinating.

Would like to learn more about this.

I've seen with my own two eyes Rajputs from Rajasthan embrace Pakistani ones as kin. Here in the UK we have many such events where Rajputs (Indian) gather and will invite along Pakistani Rajput friends.

Here;

Although I will agree there are some who don't see how you can be Rajput and not a follower of Sanatana Dharma, but I have found them in the minority. The other views are as follows;
-It's a bloodline and so therefore even non-Hindus ones are kin.
-They don't really care.

I agree.

After all, they were Rajputs before they were Hindus. Their adoption of Hinduism and absorption into the Sanatan Dharma is very interesting, in ethnographic terms.

Hindus don't avoid cousin marriages because of genetic disorder, its more of cultural thing. I've read somewhere that it was to avoid being to near village of bride. Europeans are the ones that made cousin marriages taboo after 18th century for scientific reasons.

In Zoroastrian which is considered religion from same source as hinduism aka steppe as @pedamchan will confirm marriages are even allowed between son and mother and father and daughter, brother and sister.

There is frankly not much connection theologically speaking between Zoroastrianism and Hinduism. Zoroastrians came to monotheism in the strictest sense when Hinduism only articulated it deep inside its theological speculations. I am also very uncertain about your statement about their marriage customs, but let's find out more.

@padamchen