MilSpec
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Just watch rehman malik, gilani or your knoor-e -pakistan Zardari for your much needed pleasure....
Raj Thackeray to hold rally in Mumbai
- Thread starter Bhairava
- Start date
Just watch rehman malik, gilani or your knoor-e -pakistan Zardari for your much needed pleasure....
Chinese-Dragon
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What is the meaning of "Thackeray"?
MilSpec
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They are the progeny of same vegetarian warriors who fu(ked your mighty mughals..
my2cents
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Thank god!!! No untoward incidents happened during the rally. But why sad???? What were you expecting... fireworks or what??
Markus
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You people are taking so much interest in India's internal affairs.
So the next time, you and people like you should not open up a complain thread about why PDF has turned into an Indian defence forum.
If you want to keep it a Pakistani forum, then pay more attention to pakistani issues in the correct threads.
sangsharma
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I have never been a supportor of Mr Raj. But he has demonstrated how a peacefull demonstration can be held. No violence, no injured, no ummah, no scums.
Better armed!! What a remark!! Go get some life man. We are demonstrating peacefully by our own wish, otherwise another Gujrat can happen anytime.
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vsdoc
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Indians in the days to come wil learn to appreciate the importance of organisations and parties like the RSS, the BJP, the Shiv Sena, and the MNS.
Witness what our cadres did for the north eastern students in Pune. Most of them were crying when we gave them food and water and stayed there around the platform to protect them till the trains left.
This is modern India friends.
Where we have train loads of our people fleeing like refugees during the Partition.
Witness what our cadres did for the north eastern students in Pune. Most of them were crying when we gave them food and water and stayed there around the platform to protect them till the trains left.
This is modern India friends.
Where we have train loads of our people fleeing like refugees during the Partition.
kumarkumar1867
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So who else cares??? Congress which keeps adoring islamic radicalism under name of secularism?? or north indian political parties which are allowing illegal immigration in bulk to save vote banks??
Do you have slight Idea what SHIV SENA did for mumbai & mumbaikars in 1993 bombings???
SHIV SENA & MNS are one and the same.
I dont like some of their points about Bhaiyyas but being raised in Mumbai myslef I know "Mumbai needs Shiv Sena/MNS to keep itself clean from culprits."
Hope this rally goes well & peaceful.
ajtr
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Islamism is not a moderate idea, don’t pander to it
By Tavleen Singh
When Barkha Dutt asked me to appear on her show last Tuesday the subject for discussion was meant to be the latest reports of the Comptroller & Auditor-General. I find the CAG’s method of auditing dubious and was eager to talk about this. But, by the time I flew from Mumbai to Delhi the subject had changed to Raj Thackeray’s protest against the police handling of the recent violence at a meeting organised by the Raza Academy. On my way to the airport in Mumbai I had seen small crowds of people walking down Marine Drive carrying Maharashtra Navnirman Sena flags but had not expected the thousands who rallied to Thackeray’s call. The MNS genre of bigoted, provincial politics does not appeal to me even slightly but as someone who lives in Mumbai I understood local anger about the way in which Muslim mobs were allowed not just to run riot in the city on August 11 but to even attack policemen.
Barkha invited the Police Commissioner of Mumbai Arup Patnaik (who has since been shunted out) to be part of her show along with Sanjay Nirupam of the Congress and a member of the MNS who frothed bile every time he opened his mouth. And, there was the human rights activist, Javed Anand, and distinguished Mumbai citizen, Alyque Padamsee. Barkha began by giving the Police Commissioner a chance to explain why he had been so gentle with a mob of violent fanatics who snatched weapons out of the hands of policemen, attacked public property including a war memorial and allegedly molested policewomen. The Police Commissioner said his restraint came from a desire to avoid police firing in which hundreds could have been killed. He was applauded for this by the two Muslim gentlemen on the panel and Nirupam and savaged by the MNS representative and in the end the focus became policing methods and not minority fanaticism which, in my view, is a much more serious problem.
It has been fanned for decades by political parties hungry for Muslim votes and has now reached alarming levels. In some parts of India we have homegrown Taliban style groups. Remember the Christian professor in Kerala whose hand was chopped off by Muslim vigilantes who took objection to a question paper set by him? Remember the Muslim women teachers who were banned from teaching in a Kolkata college because they refused to wear the burqa? Remember the Raza Academy’s own offer of a reward of Rs 1 lakh to anyone ready to throw a slipper at Salman Rushdie if he dared to appear at the Jaipur Literary Festival? Unfortunately for the slipper-throwers the organisers of the festival were too cowardly to stand by Rushdie or the writers who read from his work at the festival. So, Muslim fanaticism won that round.
As it seems to win every round because the police and our ‘secular’ political parties consider all exhibitions of Islamist fanaticism harmless, so even when the police came under personal attack in Mumbai on August 11 they responded gently. Would they have done the same if it was MNS men who seized semi-automatic weapons out of the hands of policemen and rampaged through city streets? Mumbai’s Police Commissioner has been applauded as a hero by Muslim groups but it is exactly this kind of double-standard in policing and politics that, in my view, has allowed the spread of Islamism’s bigoted ideology across India.
The Raza Academy is considered a ‘moderate’ Islamic group and yet it has no qualms about imposing literary censorship on writers like Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen forgetting that India is not an Islamic country. And, because our political leaders are usually too cowardly to stand by the principles on which India was founded the fanatics win. This is why we have seen the gentler, more refined Islam that was born out of India’s syncretic culture disappear under veils, beards and ugly religiosity. In the 20 years that I have been an itinerant citizen of Mumbai I have seen these changes happen before my eyes in Muslim quarters of the city in the form of an increased number of veiled women and bearded men. If you chat to them, as I do, you will find that nearly all of them believe that 9/11 was the work of Zionists and that 26/11 was the work of the RSS. They have a sense of grievance that is not based on reality.
On my travels in other parts of the country I see signs of this new fanaticism and religiosity everywhere. From Kashmir to Kanyakumari, to use that old cliché. In Kashmir it would have been almost impossible to see a veiled woman 30 years ago. Islamic rules there were so flexible that women prayed in mosques alongside men and Sufi shrines were places where even Hindus were allowed to worship.
In southern India where there never used to be visible signs of difference between the attire or the surnames of Hindus and Muslims there now are. I personally started noticing them about 20 years ago in Tamil Nadu where I met Muslim women in Coimbatore who had taken to wearing salwar-kameez and speaking Urdu. The same sort of thing is happening in Maharashtra and there are madarsas in villages now that teach Urdu. In Rajasthan I have visited villages near Nagaur that look as if they belonged in Saudi Arabia. At a famous shrine near one of them I was astounded to see a board that spoke of how India was a land of darkness and superstition until Islam arrived. The shrine commemorated an Iraqi mullah who had come all the way from Baghdad to teach us barbarians about Allah’s message.
Raj Thackeray may be wrong to tap into Hindu anger for his own political aggrandisement but anyone who thinks that this anger does not exist needs to think again. So when the police allow Muslim mobs to go berserk in a city like Mumbai they end up pandering to a dangerous new kind of fanaticism that should never be pandered to. This is why in this writer’s book Arup Patnaik is not a hero. He should have been reprimanded for not anticipating the violence of August 11 instead of being applauded for stopping it before it spread through the city. Whatever may have happened in Assam and Burma the Raza Academy could have found a better way of protesting than gathering a mob. One mob nearly always leads to another.
By Tavleen Singh
When Barkha Dutt asked me to appear on her show last Tuesday the subject for discussion was meant to be the latest reports of the Comptroller & Auditor-General. I find the CAG’s method of auditing dubious and was eager to talk about this. But, by the time I flew from Mumbai to Delhi the subject had changed to Raj Thackeray’s protest against the police handling of the recent violence at a meeting organised by the Raza Academy. On my way to the airport in Mumbai I had seen small crowds of people walking down Marine Drive carrying Maharashtra Navnirman Sena flags but had not expected the thousands who rallied to Thackeray’s call. The MNS genre of bigoted, provincial politics does not appeal to me even slightly but as someone who lives in Mumbai I understood local anger about the way in which Muslim mobs were allowed not just to run riot in the city on August 11 but to even attack policemen.
Barkha invited the Police Commissioner of Mumbai Arup Patnaik (who has since been shunted out) to be part of her show along with Sanjay Nirupam of the Congress and a member of the MNS who frothed bile every time he opened his mouth. And, there was the human rights activist, Javed Anand, and distinguished Mumbai citizen, Alyque Padamsee. Barkha began by giving the Police Commissioner a chance to explain why he had been so gentle with a mob of violent fanatics who snatched weapons out of the hands of policemen, attacked public property including a war memorial and allegedly molested policewomen. The Police Commissioner said his restraint came from a desire to avoid police firing in which hundreds could have been killed. He was applauded for this by the two Muslim gentlemen on the panel and Nirupam and savaged by the MNS representative and in the end the focus became policing methods and not minority fanaticism which, in my view, is a much more serious problem.
It has been fanned for decades by political parties hungry for Muslim votes and has now reached alarming levels. In some parts of India we have homegrown Taliban style groups. Remember the Christian professor in Kerala whose hand was chopped off by Muslim vigilantes who took objection to a question paper set by him? Remember the Muslim women teachers who were banned from teaching in a Kolkata college because they refused to wear the burqa? Remember the Raza Academy’s own offer of a reward of Rs 1 lakh to anyone ready to throw a slipper at Salman Rushdie if he dared to appear at the Jaipur Literary Festival? Unfortunately for the slipper-throwers the organisers of the festival were too cowardly to stand by Rushdie or the writers who read from his work at the festival. So, Muslim fanaticism won that round.
As it seems to win every round because the police and our ‘secular’ political parties consider all exhibitions of Islamist fanaticism harmless, so even when the police came under personal attack in Mumbai on August 11 they responded gently. Would they have done the same if it was MNS men who seized semi-automatic weapons out of the hands of policemen and rampaged through city streets? Mumbai’s Police Commissioner has been applauded as a hero by Muslim groups but it is exactly this kind of double-standard in policing and politics that, in my view, has allowed the spread of Islamism’s bigoted ideology across India.
The Raza Academy is considered a ‘moderate’ Islamic group and yet it has no qualms about imposing literary censorship on writers like Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen forgetting that India is not an Islamic country. And, because our political leaders are usually too cowardly to stand by the principles on which India was founded the fanatics win. This is why we have seen the gentler, more refined Islam that was born out of India’s syncretic culture disappear under veils, beards and ugly religiosity. In the 20 years that I have been an itinerant citizen of Mumbai I have seen these changes happen before my eyes in Muslim quarters of the city in the form of an increased number of veiled women and bearded men. If you chat to them, as I do, you will find that nearly all of them believe that 9/11 was the work of Zionists and that 26/11 was the work of the RSS. They have a sense of grievance that is not based on reality.
On my travels in other parts of the country I see signs of this new fanaticism and religiosity everywhere. From Kashmir to Kanyakumari, to use that old cliché. In Kashmir it would have been almost impossible to see a veiled woman 30 years ago. Islamic rules there were so flexible that women prayed in mosques alongside men and Sufi shrines were places where even Hindus were allowed to worship.
In southern India where there never used to be visible signs of difference between the attire or the surnames of Hindus and Muslims there now are. I personally started noticing them about 20 years ago in Tamil Nadu where I met Muslim women in Coimbatore who had taken to wearing salwar-kameez and speaking Urdu. The same sort of thing is happening in Maharashtra and there are madarsas in villages now that teach Urdu. In Rajasthan I have visited villages near Nagaur that look as if they belonged in Saudi Arabia. At a famous shrine near one of them I was astounded to see a board that spoke of how India was a land of darkness and superstition until Islam arrived. The shrine commemorated an Iraqi mullah who had come all the way from Baghdad to teach us barbarians about Allah’s message.
Raj Thackeray may be wrong to tap into Hindu anger for his own political aggrandisement but anyone who thinks that this anger does not exist needs to think again. So when the police allow Muslim mobs to go berserk in a city like Mumbai they end up pandering to a dangerous new kind of fanaticism that should never be pandered to. This is why in this writer’s book Arup Patnaik is not a hero. He should have been reprimanded for not anticipating the violence of August 11 instead of being applauded for stopping it before it spread through the city. Whatever may have happened in Assam and Burma the Raza Academy could have found a better way of protesting than gathering a mob. One mob nearly always leads to another.
ajtr
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========================================================================
Bending over backwards
Madhu Trehan
Rarely has an article befuddled me as much as Teesta Setalvad and Javed Anand’s article, ‘Making history, not repeating it’, in
The Indian Express (August 17).
The first paragraph describes the violence in Azad Maidan: “...a Muslim mob behaved in despicable fashion — torching OB vans, attacking media persons and the police, molesting women constables, snatching arms from the police....” Then the authors laud Mumbai Police Commissioner Arup Patnaik for not acting against the violent mob. The article continues, “But do allow for the possibility that responding in a most ‘un-police-like’ fashion to extreme provocation, the city’s police commissioner, Arup Patnaik, may have opened a happy chapter in the otherwise unhappy Muslim-police relationship in the metropolis.”
Let’s replace some of the words in the first paragraph with substitutes and see how it plays.
Replace “Muslim” with “Hindu”. Would the authors have written the first paragraph if the mobs were Hindus? Is the law to be adjusted according to the religion of the miscreant?
There is shocking footage of Police Commissioner Arup Patnaik ordering Deputy Commissioner of Police Ravindra Shisve to release a rioter who is being arrested. The video link has been blocked on YouTube but can be seen on Twitter links. This is how Twitter transforms from social media into political-
info media.
The footage shows PC Arup Patnaik shouting at DCP Ravindra Shisve who holds a (should I say “alleged”?) goon (pleading for mercy) by the collar, “Tumhala koni hyala pakdayala sangitla (Who has told you to catch him?)” Patnaik then threatens to have the DCP suspended.
“You take directions from the commissioner. You are not SP of Sangli. You are DCP here. You will not fall out of line or you will be suspended, stupid,” Patnaik bellows.
Am I missing something because I am not a Mumbaiker? No, because there are questions raised in Mumbai’s Mid Day newspaper (August 16, 2012). Some of the questions: “Why did Commissioner of Police Arup Patnaik force a DCP to release an apprehended rioter from the spot? If speakers incited the protesters with hate speeches, why are they still roaming free?”
The Setalvad-Anand article then reads: “Shiv Sena supremo Bal Thackeray is most unhappy that the police commissioner did not issue a blanket shoot-to-kill order. But the latter’s exemplary restraint is precisely what peace-loving Mumbaikars need to thank him for. Instead of repeating history, Patnaik has tried creating one.” Why is Bal Thackeray’s emotional temperature relevant in this? I really don’t care much about Bal Thackeray. A fact checker would ask: How did they gauge his emotional state? It is a mystery. The gloating over Bal Thackeray’s mental state stoops to the lowest denominator of one-upmanship.
The authors continue: “Thankfully, Patnaik, who was a deputy commissioner of police when Bombay burned (1992-93), has not forgotten either. It’s his act of remembering, and reminding, that prevented yet another bloodbath and ensured that the situation did not spin entirely out of control last Saturday.”
Every community is scarred by wounds that cannot be picked up selectively as a response justification. A fact checker would ask: How do the authors know that Patnaik’s mind “remembering and reminding” was his reason for asking his DCP to release a goon? A slight understanding of how India works would tell you that the order to do exactly that had come from political bosses.
More pearls: “As things stand today, the Mumbai police are the injured party, while the city’s Muslim leadership, such as it is, is compelled to do all the explaining, apologising, forgiveness-seeking, appreciating the role of the police.”
The authors seem to believe that there is a moral high ground in becoming the “injured party”, possibly from a habit of victim-self-righteous-politics. No security force should ever be reduced to an “injured party”. Their morale to protect our nation could hardly be triggered by the satisfaction — let them run riot, but hey, now THEY will have to explain, apologise and seek forgiveness! Is there any *** of understanding about how demoralising it was for the police force?
The authors conclude: “But the police commissioner’s remarkable restraint has opened up an opportunity to heal wounds, open a new chapter. It’s an opportunity Muslims must grab with both hands.”
“Muslims must grab with both hands”? They expect the same mobsters to be so moved to soft emotion that they will grab hands and sing Hum Honge Kamyaab some d-a-ay? A Bollywood screenwriter would say: Yeh realistic ending nahin hai! Badlo!
We have all read about the controversy magnet Teesta Setalvad. I believed she worked hard for what she believed in: getting justice for victims of violence in Gujarat 2002. But, with Teesta it was difficult to keep up with the spiralling versions of each issue. Even then, I gave her the benefit of a busybody do-gooder. Now this article puts a complete end to that assessment.
What motivates social activists? Let’s play with humanistic psychologist Abraham Maslow’s Humanistic Theory of Self-Actualisation (the “Hierarchy of Needs” theory and self-actualisation). First, it starts with the need to help others and it is altruistic. With a bit of success and acknowledgement of the good work he/she is doing, the activist becomes a hero. He/she gains followers and is surrounded by sycophants. Any challenging views are dismissed. The final stage takes place — the activist falls in love with himself/herself. Now this activist who started with altruistic reasons, has become a danger to society. The activist is so taken in by his/her Jungian Hero Archetype bordering on the Martyr Archetype, that anyone else’s opinion or perspective is held in contempt. Because the Archetype is so enthralled by his/her own sacrifices to the cause, to make them worthwhile, blind faith in one’s self is essential. If he/she admits he/she is wrong on any point, it means a lifetime of service has been wasted.
Gujarat 2002 upset and shook me up. Many Tweeters have sincerely tried to convince me that Narendra Modi was not responsible. I, sincerely, have not been convinced so far, since I have seen stories with evidence and footage that show the opposite. But an article like this one by Setalvad-Anand is enough to turn me into what is called an Internet Hindu. India cannot afford to have different rules of engagement based on people’s religion, caste or gender. I believe that is enshrined in our Constitution. Destroying the Constitution for a vote-bank is worse corruption than black money. An incendiary article by Setalvad-Anand can do as much damage as violence in Azad Maidan. To paraphrase Arun Shourie: This is bending over backwards.
The writer is content director at newslaundry.com. The complete article with video links will appear on Newslaundry | Sab ki Dhulai
Bending over backwards
Madhu Trehan
Rarely has an article befuddled me as much as Teesta Setalvad and Javed Anand’s article, ‘Making history, not repeating it’, in
The Indian Express (August 17).
The first paragraph describes the violence in Azad Maidan: “...a Muslim mob behaved in despicable fashion — torching OB vans, attacking media persons and the police, molesting women constables, snatching arms from the police....” Then the authors laud Mumbai Police Commissioner Arup Patnaik for not acting against the violent mob. The article continues, “But do allow for the possibility that responding in a most ‘un-police-like’ fashion to extreme provocation, the city’s police commissioner, Arup Patnaik, may have opened a happy chapter in the otherwise unhappy Muslim-police relationship in the metropolis.”
Let’s replace some of the words in the first paragraph with substitutes and see how it plays.
Replace “Muslim” with “Hindu”. Would the authors have written the first paragraph if the mobs were Hindus? Is the law to be adjusted according to the religion of the miscreant?
There is shocking footage of Police Commissioner Arup Patnaik ordering Deputy Commissioner of Police Ravindra Shisve to release a rioter who is being arrested. The video link has been blocked on YouTube but can be seen on Twitter links. This is how Twitter transforms from social media into political-
info media.
The footage shows PC Arup Patnaik shouting at DCP Ravindra Shisve who holds a (should I say “alleged”?) goon (pleading for mercy) by the collar, “Tumhala koni hyala pakdayala sangitla (Who has told you to catch him?)” Patnaik then threatens to have the DCP suspended.
“You take directions from the commissioner. You are not SP of Sangli. You are DCP here. You will not fall out of line or you will be suspended, stupid,” Patnaik bellows.
Am I missing something because I am not a Mumbaiker? No, because there are questions raised in Mumbai’s Mid Day newspaper (August 16, 2012). Some of the questions: “Why did Commissioner of Police Arup Patnaik force a DCP to release an apprehended rioter from the spot? If speakers incited the protesters with hate speeches, why are they still roaming free?”
The Setalvad-Anand article then reads: “Shiv Sena supremo Bal Thackeray is most unhappy that the police commissioner did not issue a blanket shoot-to-kill order. But the latter’s exemplary restraint is precisely what peace-loving Mumbaikars need to thank him for. Instead of repeating history, Patnaik has tried creating one.” Why is Bal Thackeray’s emotional temperature relevant in this? I really don’t care much about Bal Thackeray. A fact checker would ask: How did they gauge his emotional state? It is a mystery. The gloating over Bal Thackeray’s mental state stoops to the lowest denominator of one-upmanship.
The authors continue: “Thankfully, Patnaik, who was a deputy commissioner of police when Bombay burned (1992-93), has not forgotten either. It’s his act of remembering, and reminding, that prevented yet another bloodbath and ensured that the situation did not spin entirely out of control last Saturday.”
Every community is scarred by wounds that cannot be picked up selectively as a response justification. A fact checker would ask: How do the authors know that Patnaik’s mind “remembering and reminding” was his reason for asking his DCP to release a goon? A slight understanding of how India works would tell you that the order to do exactly that had come from political bosses.
More pearls: “As things stand today, the Mumbai police are the injured party, while the city’s Muslim leadership, such as it is, is compelled to do all the explaining, apologising, forgiveness-seeking, appreciating the role of the police.”
The authors seem to believe that there is a moral high ground in becoming the “injured party”, possibly from a habit of victim-self-righteous-politics. No security force should ever be reduced to an “injured party”. Their morale to protect our nation could hardly be triggered by the satisfaction — let them run riot, but hey, now THEY will have to explain, apologise and seek forgiveness! Is there any *** of understanding about how demoralising it was for the police force?
The authors conclude: “But the police commissioner’s remarkable restraint has opened up an opportunity to heal wounds, open a new chapter. It’s an opportunity Muslims must grab with both hands.”
“Muslims must grab with both hands”? They expect the same mobsters to be so moved to soft emotion that they will grab hands and sing Hum Honge Kamyaab some d-a-ay? A Bollywood screenwriter would say: Yeh realistic ending nahin hai! Badlo!
We have all read about the controversy magnet Teesta Setalvad. I believed she worked hard for what she believed in: getting justice for victims of violence in Gujarat 2002. But, with Teesta it was difficult to keep up with the spiralling versions of each issue. Even then, I gave her the benefit of a busybody do-gooder. Now this article puts a complete end to that assessment.
What motivates social activists? Let’s play with humanistic psychologist Abraham Maslow’s Humanistic Theory of Self-Actualisation (the “Hierarchy of Needs” theory and self-actualisation). First, it starts with the need to help others and it is altruistic. With a bit of success and acknowledgement of the good work he/she is doing, the activist becomes a hero. He/she gains followers and is surrounded by sycophants. Any challenging views are dismissed. The final stage takes place — the activist falls in love with himself/herself. Now this activist who started with altruistic reasons, has become a danger to society. The activist is so taken in by his/her Jungian Hero Archetype bordering on the Martyr Archetype, that anyone else’s opinion or perspective is held in contempt. Because the Archetype is so enthralled by his/her own sacrifices to the cause, to make them worthwhile, blind faith in one’s self is essential. If he/she admits he/she is wrong on any point, it means a lifetime of service has been wasted.
Gujarat 2002 upset and shook me up. Many Tweeters have sincerely tried to convince me that Narendra Modi was not responsible. I, sincerely, have not been convinced so far, since I have seen stories with evidence and footage that show the opposite. But an article like this one by Setalvad-Anand is enough to turn me into what is called an Internet Hindu. India cannot afford to have different rules of engagement based on people’s religion, caste or gender. I believe that is enshrined in our Constitution. Destroying the Constitution for a vote-bank is worse corruption than black money. An incendiary article by Setalvad-Anand can do as much damage as violence in Azad Maidan. To paraphrase Arun Shourie: This is bending over backwards.
The writer is content director at newslaundry.com. The complete article with video links will appear on Newslaundry | Sab ki Dhulai
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