Raheel Sharif Vs Kayani: Difference in perception

[SipahSalar]

BAJII KIYANI

Please refrain from insults even if you disagree with his actions. By insulting him you are also disgracing the institution, are you saying our soldiers who laid their lives for our nation were lead by a woman for 6 years?

Show some respect!

 

[FaujHistorian]

Fauj Bhai, I quite agree with your assessment but i think personal trauma should not effect the institutional decision making. Your thought plz. ?

71 defeat was institutional trauma that kept many generals from taking quick decisions.
Same trauma impacted many of of the corps commanders' decisions during Mush time.

As I said, Kiyani was among the last remaining officers who fought in 711 war. He was fresh neem luftain (second lieutenant) back then.

With Kiyani gone, pretty much the whole PA institution is now built up by post-71 era officers.

Hope you understand.

Thanks.

Sir,

That was no trauma for him---rather a badge of honor---.

General Kiyani was a coward by nature----he got to his position by riding the wave of Yessir Yessir---.

Kiyani is on the same level traitor as was Yahya Khan----. Kiyani did as much and worst damage to Pakistan than Yahya or pretty close----. Yahya's in the 65 war and Kiyani's in the WOT----.

Kiyani was Musharraf's eyes and ears and he constantly lied to Mushrraf---. Zardari otoh knew how to handle Kiyani---thru his brothers---.

Kiyani stopped being a General of the armed forces right at the height of the conflict against the terrorists---he was scared that if he attacked the terrs---they would attack him family---the quiet man just got into his shell and stayed quiet as Pakistan was being dismembered by the terrs and the politicians alike.

Kiyani's personal disgrace was finalized when OBL was killed in A'abad and Kiyani out of his cowardice kept quiet about his and Pakistan's help.

THe inside report is that Kiyani was nervous like hell when that incidence happened---he was so afraid of retaliation by the terrorists against his self that he just sod out Pakistan.

Raheel Shareef is indeed a warrior----but a he may have been dealt a hand that t would require extreme luck and conviction to succeed----and I say that bcause h has another coward in the form of Nawaz Shareef as the PM and Nisar as the minister---.



Hi,

Well that showed off in Kiyani's character.

When comparing two eras aka Kiyani era and Rahil era,

please do not make it too personal.

PA makes decisions based on all corps commanders and COAS.

it is never a one man show.

 

[Cheetah786]

Please refrain from insults even if you disagree with his actions. By insulting him you are also disgracing the institution, are you saying our soldiers who laid their lives for our nation were lead by a woman for 6 years?

Show some respect!

No, by insulting him,I am insulting him. He did more demage to the image of the army then any body else. He slept in warm and comfortable bed while our soldiers were beheaded by talibans. You wanna praise that more power to you. I will call spade a spade. General Raheel now that's a real soldier and I salute him any day,his actions speak for themselfs.

 

[Wolfhound]

Different scenarios , what different scenarios.

In Gen Kayanis tenure the Pakistan armys image was ruined in front of everyone due to musshy's era,people started to hate the army and started doubting its decisions as they thought that everyone in the army was power hunger,corrupt,insensitive to Baluchices and the government didnt trust the army either due to reasons mentioned. Gen Raheel on the other had a government and countrymen who supported the army alot more compared to Gen Kayanis tenure hence his decisions were easier to make due to little or insignificant pressure

 

[A.M.]

Kiyani will likely go down as the worst COAS that PA has ever had.

 

[SipahSalar]

No, by insulting him,I am insulting him.

No, you are also insulting the Pak Army and their integrity by implying they willingly chose to be lead by a woman, took orders from a woman and salute a woman.

 

[FaujHistorian]

My comments represent reality,Reality is always a bitch !

GENERAL RAHEEL
General Raheel Sharif (born 16 June 1956),is the four-star General ... College in Lahore and afterward attended the Pakistan Military Academy. After graduation in 1976, he was commissioned into the 6th Battalion of the Frontier

BAJII KIYANI
General Kayani formerly served as the Director-General of the Inter-Services ... in Kakul where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in 1971 in his class of 45th PMA Long Course. .

Fauji Historian, learn your history.

you have stated nothing new. These dates of graduation are well known.

 

[Cheetah786]

71 defeat was institutional trauma that kept many generals from taking quick decisions.
Same trauma impacted many of of the corps commanders' decisions during Mush time.

As I said, Kiyani was among the last remaining officers who fought in 711 war. He was fresh neem luftain (second lieutenant) back then.

With Kiyani gone, pretty much the whole PA institution is now built up by post-71 era officers.

Hope you understand.

Thanks.




When comparing two eras aka Kiyani era and Rahil era,

please do not make it too personal.

PA makes decisions based on all corps commanders and COAS.
it is never a one man show.

Oh please, spare us this trauma trauma b.s. If he was traumatized,then he shouldn't have stayed in the army and simply moved on. Not only that he didn't do that he took the top job with an extension. He was so traumatized , he didn't forget to cash his paychecks and accepted all the perks that comes with the job. Only time he was traumatized when he ha dot do the job we were paying him for really.

 

[SipahSalar]

Oh please, spare us this trauma trauma b.s. If he was traumatized,then he shouldn't have stayed in the army and simply moved on. Not only that he didn't do that he took the top job with an extension. He was so traumatized , he didn't forget to cash his paychecks and accepted all the perks that comes with the job. Only time he was traumatized when he ha dot do the job we were paying him for really.

If he was so power hungry, then what was there to stop him from taking power like Musharraf did? And lets not forget Nawaz Sharif wanted to make him CJCS for further 3 years because he was a "safe bet"

 

[FaujHistorian]

Oh please, spare us this trauma trauma b.s. If he was traumatized,then he shouldn't have stayed in the army and simply moved on. Not only that he didn't do that he took the top job with an extension. He was so traumatized , he didn't forget to cash his paychecks and accepted all the perks that comes with the job. Only time he was traumatized when he ha dot do the job we were paying him for really.

Again you are utterly confused about the decision making process in PA.

COAS has just one vote. The remaining votes come from the corps commanders.

Anyone who makes it a personal specific thingy, knows nothing about PA.

When I refereed to 71 trauma, it was not meant for Kiyani as a person, but for the institution of PA.

From 1995 Mullah suf's swat Islamist movement till June this year, a lot of COAS made same decisions as Kiyani.

In your ignorance you are latching on to Kiyani as a person.

 

[Cheetah786]

you have stated nothing new. These dates of graduation are well known.

Man you are funny.( kiyani was traumatized cause of 1971 war) your words not mine. according to the dates I posted He wasn't in that war.

Again you are utterly confused about the decision making process in PA.

COAS has just one vote. The remaining votes come from the corps commanders.

Anyone who makes it a personal specific thingy, knows nothing about PA.

When I refereed to 71 trauma, it was not meant for Kiyani as a person, but for the institution of PA.

From 1995 Mullah suf's swat Islamist movement till June this year, a lot of COAS made same decisions as Kiyani.

In your ignorance you are latching on to Kiyani as a person.

Clearly ,Iam the ignorant one here.

No, you are also insulting the Pak Army and their integrity by implying they willingly chose to be lead by a woman, took orders from a woman and salute a woman.

what ?

 

[Wolfhound]

No, you are also insulting the Pak Army and their integrity by implying they willingly chose to be lead by a woman, took orders from a woman and salute a woman.

now that is just sexist

 

[ghoul]

Worst COAS was Musharraf by far. Kayani was good. Swat and Bajaur operations were major successes under the leadership of kayani. Before these operations, people thought the Taliban were invincible.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Worst COAS was Musharraf by far. Kayani was good. Swat and Bajaur operations were major successes under the leadership of kayani. Before these operations, people thought the Taliban were invincible.

Again you guys assume COAS can decide things at his own.

It is just a ceremonial post. The real power of PA lies with corps commanders.

 

[MastanKhan]

71 defeat was institutional trauma that kept many generals from taking quick decisions.
Same trauma impacted many of of the corps commanders' decisions during Mush time.

As I said, Kiyani was among the last remaining officers who fought in 711 war. He was fresh neem luftain (second lieutenant) back then.

With Kiyani gone, pretty much the whole PA institution is now built up by post-71 era officers.

Hope you understand.

Thanks.




When comparing two eras aka Kiyani era and Rahil era,

please do not make it too personal.

PA makes decisions based on all corps commanders and COAS.

it is never a one man show.

Hi,

Corps commanders is a yes mans show----it a yessir yessir army---like the pakistani culture--yessir yessir----sub theek hai sir----sub theek ho jai ga sir----like the pakistani co pilot on air blue flight who did not have the courage to tell the senior pilot---the bearded religious guy who was fasting during flight---could not tell him that they were stalling and slamming into the mountain side----.

It only takes one coward in the leadership position to lose a war / lose a nation---isn't the first time that has happened---won't be the last time either.

Do you need any examples----

Again you guys assume COAS can decide things at his own.

It is just a ceremonial post. The real power of PA lies with corps commanders.

Sir,

It is not a matter of deciding on his own----when you the leader is a coward---the others associated with you also act like one----it s all about job security---who wants to be fired from the job of a general----a good retirement and a cushy job after retirement---.

The examples are in front of you---Tommy Franks, John Abizaid, Mullen---. McCrystal ( I believe that is the right name )the best of them spoke out and got fired---and these are the generals of the largest and democratic super power---and 3 out of four were yes men---aka cowards---.