Rafale OR fgfa NOT both is the dilemma Facing IAF

[agni 6]

Indian economy is crashing below 4% growth annually. Though the defiant Indian government would not admit it. Watch for Indian government fudge number.

As for the planes, no money, no planes.




India rejects IMF projections on economic growth



Its good to be positive. But its even more important to be realistic. India is likely not going to be able to afford what it want.

You are right.With de facto technology denial regimes in place our capital expenditure and R&D budget will shoot up massively.We will have 100's of indigenous programs along with buying weapons upfront without technology transfer.Most experts say that our economy will crash but with the advent of private sector I foresee a huge boom in the Indian economy itself.The creation of a MIC itself will boost our GDP by 2.5% if done decisively our economy from next FY onwards will start growing at 7% and followed by 9% in the successive year.This will have a multiplier effect since huge investments will start taking place.Only caveat is 'Decisive Government'.

That's my worthless 2 paise opinion.Anybody is free to take it or leave it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

FFS, stop wasting everyone's time.


The IAF will be getting BOTH the MMRCA and FGFA.




END OF STORY.

 

[Badbadman]

FFS, stop wasting everyone's time.


The IAF will be getting BOTH the MMRCA and FGFA.




END OF STORY.

Damn Right we will

 

[anant_s]

FFS, stop wasting everyone's time.


The IAF will be getting BOTH the MMRCA and FGFA.




END OF STORY.

Well said!
We must understand that a major factor contributing to the delay in signing the deal is Politcial with impending general elections next year. This delay has led to the rumor mongering. In ten years time from now, i'm sure we'll see both Rafale and FGFA (& hopefully LCA Mark 2) doing duties proudly.

 

[Storm Force]

I,LL EAT MY RIGHT ARM IF IN 10 YEARS ALL THREE

rafale
fgfa
LCA mk2

are in service

HECK WE ARE STIL FLYING OVER 300 JUNK MIG21/27 fighters when the rest of the world dumped them a decade ago.

A reality check is needed

ALL 3 FIGHTER PROGRAMMES will cost $60 billion combined

Nobody bar USA & CHINA plan to spend/acquire this much fighter SPEND

2 OF THREE at best

my guess IS LCA MK2 & fgfa

 

[noname1]

The Russian answer to the American F-22, the “5th generation” T-50 (or PAK-FA) is in big trouble. Several key components are facing serious development problems. The major problem is the new engine, which is still stuck in development. Russia always had problems building competitive engines. In the past to get the power needed they built engines that lasted only a fraction as long as Western engines. There are also problems with the stealth technology and the new electronics.

Finagle's Law, Murphys Law, Sods Law, Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I,LL EAT MY RIGHT ARM IF IN 10 YEARS ALL THREE

rafale
fgfa
LCA mk2

are in service

HECK WE ARE STIL FLYING OVER 300 JUNK MIG21/27 fighters when the rest of the world dumped them a decade ago.

A reality check is needed

ALL 3 FIGHTER PROGRAMMES will cost $60 billion combined

Nobody bar USA & CHINA plan to spend/acquire this much fighter SPEND

2 OF THREE at best

my guess IS LCA MK2 & fgfa

Are you high or just plain stupid? Do you think these sort of costs are paid upfront?? NO, they are spread out over many years if not decades. You're telling me a India can't afford these projects? By 2020 it will have a $4TN USD economy and will be spending $120-150 A YEAR on defence.



Yet another BS thread started by you based on zero evidence just flawed logic.

 

[Storm Force]

Abingdon your talking out of your rear.

The Indian gdp today is barely 2 trillion.

2020 is six years and six months away. Where you getting this rubbish of 4 trillion GDP from mate. At average 5%.growrh 3 trillion wil be some going by then.

And yes your dam right I knows for 100% that Indian can't and won't be financially by both rafale and fgfa between 2014_2024.

We left mmrca too late

 

[vostok]

The Russian answer to the American F-22, the “5th generation” T-50 (or PAK-FA) is in big trouble. Several key components are facing serious development problems. The major problem is the new engine, which is still stuck in development. Russia always had problems building competitive engines. In the past to get the power needed they built engines that lasted only a fraction as long as Western engines. There are also problems with the stealth technology and the new electronics.

Finagle's Law, Murphys Law, Sods Law, Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

I can wrote the same thing about F-35 and you will think - "what a troll"/ And I think the same about your post, because T-50 program is going well and in terms.

 

[doremon]

It's not a money issue, its the tech transfer not being agreed on.

I believe just scrap the french if they hardball too long and sign up EF with tech transfer.

my dear friend if u spend years on research and come up with a product and try to sell at lets says 5oRs per/peice and if some indian comes and says i will give u 5000rs will u teach me how to make it,then its like putting his entire business out of order because we indians will compete with him in future using the knowledge he provided

 

[Storm Force]

Abingdon your talking out of your rear.

The Indian gdp today is barely 2 trillion.

2020 is six years and six months away. Where you getting this rubbish of 4 trillion GDP from mate. At average 5%.growrh 3 trillion wil be some going by then.

And yes your dam right I knows for 100% that Indian can't and won't be financially by both rafale and fgfa between 2014_2024.

We left mmrca too late

 

[MilSpec]

7 MONTHS ago i started a thread suggesting that INDIAN MMRCA project for Rafale was in danger of being cancelled. Based on signals and media comments that i was reading all over the place and using my own good judgement.

Since then 2 further developments have taken place leading me to summarise the dilemma facing the indian military ie the AIRFORCE.

The first is that indian growth forcasts have been curtailed folowing a global slowdown latest figures show INDIAN GDP growing at around 4.5 to 5% ANNUALLY for next 4 years much lower than the near 9% in last decade. Massive rupee devaluation recently also highlights the financial isues.

second we learnt last week that the indo russian contract to finally agree a cost/timescale/work share/TOT etc on the indian version of the PAK FA is to be delayed by 12 months minimum.
Had the deal been signed in NOV coming next month as was expected IAF would have receiced 3 prototpes for FGFA by 2019.

Rafale we now know is dragging on for various issues road blocks being imposed by INDIANS as we speak.

IN SUMMARY my reading of this situation is simply this IAF PLANS to acquire or sign up 2 different HIGHLY ADVANCED FIGHTERS that will serve the indian air force for next 35 years did not take ccount that EACH PROJECT was going to cost $25 billion EACH.

this sum of money IS NOT POSSIBLE by any nation on EARTH bar CHINA & USA.

as a nation WE HAVE MESSED UP THE FINANCIALS completely.

IMO the FUTURE RAFALE fighter has envisaged by the FRENCH will be a near fifth gen fighter with various upgrades it will remain in service until 2040+ withy FRANCE and others.

THE PAK FA will arrive for RUSSIA in next 5 years about the time IAF is set to start license production of the RAFALE if we sign on the $25 billion line.

As far as i am concerned in the face of falling sdqs nos CHINA massive milutary build up IAF have realised that they CANT COMMITT to both hyper expensive projects.

ONE HAS TO FALL BY THE SIDE

BUT WHICH ONE

Tax payer ka maal... Dariya me daal!!

Both Rafale and PMF FGFA will be bought by IAF... thats it!

 

[SQ8]

Tax payer ka maal... Dariya me daal!!

Both Rafale and PMF FGFA will be bought by IAF... thats it!

Quite a bunch of mixed signals coming out on the program. But I certainly doubt either will be "cancelled". Worst case scenario(quite unlikely) is that the French deal wont go through and something else will be bought as a quick fix.
The FGFA may be delayed, but then again there is little in terms of threat to warrant such a quick entry of the system.

 

[karan.1970]

Quite a bunch of mixed signals coming out on the program. But I certainly doubt either will be "cancelled". Worst case scenario(quite unlikely) is that the French deal wont go through and something else will be bought as a quick fix.
The FGFA may be delayed, but then again there is little in terms of threat to warrant such a quick entry of the system.

If my canteen wala source is to be believed, 20 numbers of refurbished Mirage 2000's are being thrown in, in a fly away condition and at a rock bottom price by Dassault to sweeten the rafale deal .. If the rumor is true, we should hear something after May 2014

 

[MilSpec]

Quite a bunch of mixed signals coming out on the program. But I certainly doubt either will be "cancelled". Worst case scenario(quite unlikely) is that the French deal wont go through and something else will be bought as a quick fix.
The FGFA may be delayed, but then again there is little in terms of threat to warrant such a quick entry of the system.

Rafale will go through... it will take longer than expected there is more than defense matter hanging in jeapordy... mama's got to get paid... FGFA is assumed to have 12 months delay.. I have been saying from day one they have overestimated MKI production line and this project will see a minimum of 2-3 year delay....

Lets not forget Jaguars deal had almost 7 year delay...