Rafale jets vs ghas ki roti

[anant_s]

apologies to @dadeechi but this is really a BS article.
In India more people are suffering from hunger owing to an extremely flawed Public distribution system and pilferage of government subsidy by middlemen rather than an arms deal.

as can be seen a major culprit in people not receiving fair share of food is because of a lot of leakage (Theft, damage due to improper storage etc) which is a criminal offense IMHO.

It is pretty clear from above data, that states housing the most poor are also the ones that are loosing most of grains, making poor remain poor.
Defence budget.

our defence spending hasn't risen exorbitantly and still extremely reasonable when we compare it to other economies. Infact one might add that, we actually are undespending when comparing with size of GDP (as indicated by @Abingdonboy ) and massive requirement of funding on account of backlog of lost time in 90s and good part of 2000.

It has become customary in India, to point fingers on soft targets like defense and space whenever large value projects are announced, while conveniently forgetting that actual cause of poverty in India is due flawed policies or policy implementation.
Sad!

@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @Picdelamirand-oil @Abingdonboy @Levina @AUSTERLITZ @Stephen Cohen @Taygibay @SpArK @ranjeet [/USER]

 

[punit]

Rafale jets vs ghas ki roti
- Govt gears up to justify high cost of ensuring safe borders
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, April 19: The Narendra Modi government is preparing to justify the anticipated whopping cost of acquiring the Rafale fighter aircraft by laying stress on safe borders and skies, without which "we will not be able to afford even ghas ki roti (bread made of grass)".

Guns versus butter is a debate that has dogged expensive military acquisitions not only in India but governments the world over. Such are the times for the Modi administration that the Indian Air Force has sounded the alarm over its fast-depleting fleet of fighter aircraft when the country is going through rural distress. Jets versus " ghas ki roti" has a wicked ring to it.

The minister of state for defence, Rao Inderjit Singh, said today that the last hitches in signing the contract for 36 Rafale aircraft would be ironed out in a meeting of the defence acquisitions council scheduled on Thursday.


Estimates of the cost of the deal range from the euro equivalent of Rs 55,000 crore to Rs 65,000 crore with a mean of about Rs 1,700 crore per aircraft. The value will include the cost of training IAF crew, supply of spares over a specified period and the establishment of one or more bases for the aircraft. The cost of each Rafale would roughly equal the cost of about six home-made Tejas light combat aircraft. The Tejas is not yet fully operational.

A Rafale jet (left); a roti made of grass

Asked if the political cost of acquiring the Rafale was bearable when people in drought-stricken regions such as Bundelkhand were reported to be eating ghas ki roti and farmers in Maharashtra had run out of water, the minister said: "The country can develop only when its borders are safe; when the skies above are safe. And if you do not have that security, even ghas ki roti will not be affordable".

Prime Minister Modi committed to buy the 36 Rafale jets during his visit to Paris a year ago. He had also said that the jets would be bought on terms more favourable for India than those that had been negotiated under the UPA regime through the MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) route, the competition through which the French plane was selected by the IAF. When the MMRCA process was initiated in 2007, the defence establishment under A.K. Antony estimated it would cost about Rs 48,000 crore to acquire 126 planes. Modi's announcement in Paris in April last year led to the scuttling of the MMRCA process and the initiation of a direct off-the-shelf purchase deal for 36 aircraft from France's Dassault Aviation.

But cost escalations since the time the Rafale was selected in 2012, the falling value of the Indian rupee and the delay in contracting have made it difficult for negotiators to beat down the price despite defence minister Manohar Parrikar's assertion that he is a tough bargainer. The Rafale jets were rejected on the grounds of cost by at least four countries. In the past year, however, the French have got firm orders from Egypt and Qatar apart from their own Armee d'l air.

"The Rafale is needed," Rao Inderjit Singh emphasised today. "The LCA (Tejas) is also needed. And our effort is to ensure that whatever funds are available with the ministry of defence are used optimally to modernise the air force," he said.

The minister was speaking on the sidelines of a seminar on "Make in India" at the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) where Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha also spoke.

In January this year, during the French President's participation as the chief guest in the Republic Day parade, Prime Minister Modi and President Francois Hollande signed a memorandum of agreement to purchase 36 Rafale combat jets. But the memorandum did not include the contract because New Delhi and Paris were still bargaining over the cost.

Defence ministry sources said the contract will oblige the French to 50 per cent offsets. This means that the

French will have to re-invest 50 per cent of the cost into production arrangements in India. When the negotiations began in July last year, the French had agreed to 30 per cent offsets.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160420/jsp/nation/story_81202.jsp#.Vxa_E545CUk

SUJAN DUTTA, telegraph hahaha !

 

[jamahir]

i will write about this in the evening.

the op is similar to what i have been saying since june 2014.

 

[Spectre]

SUJAN DUTTA, telegraph hahaha !

Leave my telegraph out of it. That paper is essential to my morning routine

 

[Bheemsen]

Congress was ready to sign this deal for US 12 Billion.....
none of these Jackasses have congratulated Parikar for 25% Saving....

Now Roti ya Ghas.....

"Prestitutes"

12 Billion for 126 and 8 billion for 36 now do your math moron

 

[Skull and Bones]

12 Billion for 126 and 8 billion for 36 now do your math moron

I'm still waiting for your reply for this post.

"When the Government announced it would be spending $6 billion to buy 24 new fighter bombers last week, the defence establishment might have been expected to applaud. But, if there was applause, it was seriously muted."

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1873007.htm

 

[rubyjackass]

Increidble, no one batted an eyelid in India when the IAF procured 10 C-17s for $5 billion USD. The only reason the Rafale is facing so much heat is because of the extensive presence of vested interests exercising control over the Indian media.

There is no "guns vs butter debate" to be had, the Rafale's cost will be serviced just like any other defence purchase- through the defence budget of India that is currently at a historic low of 1.65% of GDP. The Rafale is not taking the food out of babys' bellies.

10 C-17s for 5bil$ is a good deal IMO. Just considering the volumes, Rafale is on the dearer end.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Rafale jets vs ghas ki roti
- Govt gears up to justify high cost of ensuring safe borders
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, April 19: The Narendra Modi government is preparing to justify the anticipated whopping cost of acquiring the Rafale fighter aircraft by laying stress on safe borders and skies, without which "we will not be able to afford even ghas ki roti (bread made of grass)".

Guns versus butter is a debate that has dogged expensive military acquisitions not only in India but governments the world over. Such are the times for the Modi administration that the Indian Air Force has sounded the alarm over its fast-depleting fleet of fighter aircraft when the country is going through rural distress. Jets versus " ghas ki roti" has a wicked ring to it.

The minister of state for defence, Rao Inderjit Singh, said today that the last hitches in signing the contract for 36 Rafale aircraft would be ironed out in a meeting of the defence acquisitions council scheduled on Thursday.


Estimates of the cost of the deal range from the euro equivalent of Rs 55,000 crore to Rs 65,000 crore with a mean of about Rs 1,700 crore per aircraft. The value will include the cost of training IAF crew, supply of spares over a specified period and the establishment of one or more bases for the aircraft. The cost of each Rafale would roughly equal the cost of about six home-made Tejas light combat aircraft. The Tejas is not yet fully operational.

A Rafale jet (left); a roti made of grass

Asked if the political cost of acquiring the Rafale was bearable when people in drought-stricken regions such as Bundelkhand were reported to be eating ghas ki roti and farmers in Maharashtra had run out of water, the minister said: "The country can develop only when its borders are safe; when the skies above are safe. And if you do not have that security, even ghas ki roti will not be affordable".

Prime Minister Modi committed to buy the 36 Rafale jets during his visit to Paris a year ago. He had also said that the jets would be bought on terms more favourable for India than those that had been negotiated under the UPA regime through the MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) route, the competition through which the French plane was selected by the IAF. When the MMRCA process was initiated in 2007, the defence establishment under A.K. Antony estimated it would cost about Rs 48,000 crore to acquire 126 planes. Modi's announcement in Paris in April last year led to the scuttling of the MMRCA process and the initiation of a direct off-the-shelf purchase deal for 36 aircraft from France's Dassault Aviation.

But cost escalations since the time the Rafale was selected in 2012, the falling value of the Indian rupee and the delay in contracting have made it difficult for negotiators to beat down the price despite defence minister Manohar Parrikar's assertion that he is a tough bargainer. The Rafale jets were rejected on the grounds of cost by at least four countries. In the past year, however, the French have got firm orders from Egypt and Qatar apart from their own Armee d'l air.

"The Rafale is needed," Rao Inderjit Singh emphasised today. "The LCA (Tejas) is also needed. And our effort is to ensure that whatever funds are available with the ministry of defence are used optimally to modernise the air force," he said.

The minister was speaking on the sidelines of a seminar on "Make in India" at the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) where Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha also spoke.

In January this year, during the French President's participation as the chief guest in the Republic Day parade, Prime Minister Modi and President Francois Hollande signed a memorandum of agreement to purchase 36 Rafale combat jets. But the memorandum did not include the contract because New Delhi and Paris were still bargaining over the cost.

Defence ministry sources said the contract will oblige the French to 50 per cent offsets. This means that the

French will have to re-invest 50 per cent of the cost into production arrangements in India. When the negotiations began in July last year, the French had agreed to 30 per cent offsets.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160420/jsp/nation/story_81202.jsp#.Vxa_E545CUk

Very nice post, I feel same when Pakistani establishment spending too much besides the fact that there are millions hungry and poor out there.
In my opinion and believe, God forbid, if third world war takes place, then whole the world will be destroyed except for India and Pakistan besides the fact that there will be mountain like heaps of arms lying on LOCs on both sides.
So, I must say to both sides, stop this madness, stop it right now, because its useless. These arms will never be used (inshAllah)

 

[Hellfire]

10 C-17s for 5bil$ is a good deal IMO. Just considering the volumes, Rafale is on the dearer end.

Your point is superfluous. You are not in a position to get an aircraft worth its name for anything cheaper without seriously compromising on you QR. You might as well make new Mig 21s and add AESA to it. What crap argument is being dished out so far kind of in support of this nonsensical article is that of cost. What is the cost of your freedom? And what is the cost of the LCA "Late Coming Aircraft" which would end up costing way too high in terms of cost of development (with respect to percentage of indigenization which has been achieved in terms of components and system software as also armaments, not to mention the paraphernalia of simulator acquisition for training (and its development cost), establishment of lines of support and spares etc etc the short for it being LCC?

Well I am all for it, but we need a stop gap measure till this fructifies. Let us PLEAAASSSEEEE not go the INSAS route, useless weapon for war and CQB and cost roughly 20,000 rs per piece in those days to rs 2790 for a Bulgarian ak47 which is fairly ok and being used extensively in rr battalions in valley.

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/...-will-be-a-disaster-for-the-army/20150718.htm

The only time money becomes a consideration is when a major defence capability boost is in the offing. If one was to be given say a Mig 21 refurbished, it will be throttled down the throats of armed forces in a second to save money .... stinks like T-72S being championed by the one time PM HD Deve Gowda instead of T-90!!!

Very nice post, I feel same when Pakistani establishment spending too much besides the fact that there are millions hungry and poor out there.
In my opinion and believe, God forbid, if third world war takes place, then whole the world will be destroyed except for India and Pakistan besides the fact that there will be mountain like heaps of arms lying on LOCs on both sides.
So, I must say to both sides, stop this madness, stop it right now, because its useless. These arms will never be used (inshAllah)

Oi nothing like that. There will be no world war. And the weapons, we will melt and use it for something else as neither Pakistan nor India will fight each other. As soon as economic development starts and population declines (which it will as costs rise for living) people will prefer peace to war. Would like to work and live ... not die like idiots

 

[barbarosa]

Very nice post, I feel same when Pakistani establishment spending too much besides the fact that there are millions hungry and poor out there.
In my opinion and believe, God forbid, if third world war takes place, then whole the world will be destroyed except for India and Pakistan besides the fact that there will be mountain like heaps of arms lying on LOCs on both sides.
So, I must say to both sides, stop this madness, stop it right now, because its useless. These arms will never be used (inshAllah)

Indian believes in HEROISM, watch their dramas films and other activity.It is right that Indian understand the language of power.

 

[rubyjackass]

Your point is superfluous. You are not in a position to get an aircraft worth its name for anything cheaper without seriously compromising on you QR. You might as well make new Mig 21s and add AESA to it. What crap argument is being dished out so far kind of in support of this nonsensical article is that of cost. What is the cost of your freedom? And what is the cost of the LCA "Late Coming Aircraft" which would end up costing way too high in terms of cost of development (with respect to percentage of indigenization which has been achieved in terms of components and system software as also armaments, not to mention the paraphernalia of simulator acquisition for training (and its development cost), establishment of lines of support and spares etc etc the short for it being LCC?

Well I am all for it, but we need a stop gap measure till this fructifies. Let us PLEAAASSSEEEE not go the INSAS route, useless weapon for war and CQB and cost roughly 20,000 rs per piece in those days to rs 2790 for a Bulgarian ak47 which is fairly ok and being used extensively in rr battalions in valley.

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/...-will-be-a-disaster-for-the-army/20150718.htm

The only time money becomes a consideration is when a major defence capability boost is in the offing. If one was to be given say a Mig 21 refurbished, it will be throttled down the throats of armed forces in a second to save money .... stinks like T-72S being championed by the one time PM HD Deve Gowda instead of T-90!!!

I totally agree with your point about the AK. I also think Arjun was a waste of money. But in this specific case, Rafale is too costly. And the whole selling point of Rafale comes with the costly attachments. I would rather have India buy 200 F-18s or single engine MiGs for twice what Rafale costs(and are produced faster as well, for a stop gap measure). We are spending enough for Sukhois to retain the edge. LCA looks fine now. So the lighter aircraft department is also coming through.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Rafale jets vs ghas ki roti
- Govt gears up to justify high cost of ensuring safe borders
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, April 19: The Narendra Modi government is preparing to justify the anticipated whopping cost of acquiring the Rafale fighter aircraft by laying stress on safe borders and skies, without which "we will not be able to afford even ghas ki roti (bread made of grass)".

Guns versus butter is a debate that has dogged expensive military acquisitions not only in India but governments the world over. Such are the times for the Modi administration that the Indian Air Force has sounded the alarm over its fast-depleting fleet of fighter aircraft when the country is going through rural distress. Jets versus " ghas ki roti" has a wicked ring to it.

The minister of state for defence, Rao Inderjit Singh, said today that the last hitches in signing the contract for 36 Rafale aircraft would be ironed out in a meeting of the defence acquisitions council scheduled on Thursday.


Estimates of the cost of the deal range from the euro equivalent of Rs 55,000 crore to Rs 65,000 crore with a mean of about Rs 1,700 crore per aircraft. The value will include the cost of training IAF crew, supply of spares over a specified period and the establishment of one or more bases for the aircraft. The cost of each Rafale would roughly equal the cost of about six home-made Tejas light combat aircraft. The Tejas is not yet fully operational.

A Rafale jet (left); a roti made of grass

Asked if the political cost of acquiring the Rafale was bearable when people in drought-stricken regions such as Bundelkhand were reported to be eating ghas ki roti and farmers in Maharashtra had run out of water, the minister said: "The country can develop only when its borders are safe; when the skies above are safe. And if you do not have that security, even ghas ki roti will not be affordable".

Prime Minister Modi committed to buy the 36 Rafale jets during his visit to Paris a year ago. He had also said that the jets would be bought on terms more favourable for India than those that had been negotiated under the UPA regime through the MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) route, the competition through which the French plane was selected by the IAF. When the MMRCA process was initiated in 2007, the defence establishment under A.K. Antony estimated it would cost about Rs 48,000 crore to acquire 126 planes. Modi's announcement in Paris in April last year led to the scuttling of the MMRCA process and the initiation of a direct off-the-shelf purchase deal for 36 aircraft from France's Dassault Aviation.

But cost escalations since the time the Rafale was selected in 2012, the falling value of the Indian rupee and the delay in contracting have made it difficult for negotiators to beat down the price despite defence minister Manohar Parrikar's assertion that he is a tough bargainer. The Rafale jets were rejected on the grounds of cost by at least four countries. In the past year, however, the French have got firm orders from Egypt and Qatar apart from their own Armee d'l air.

"The Rafale is needed," Rao Inderjit Singh emphasised today. "The LCA (Tejas) is also needed. And our effort is to ensure that whatever funds are available with the ministry of defence are used optimally to modernise the air force," he said.

The minister was speaking on the sidelines of a seminar on "Make in India" at the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) where Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha also spoke.

In January this year, during the French President's participation as the chief guest in the Republic Day parade, Prime Minister Modi and President Francois Hollande signed a memorandum of agreement to purchase 36 Rafale combat jets. But the memorandum did not include the contract because New Delhi and Paris were still bargaining over the cost.

Defence ministry sources said the contract will oblige the French to 50 per cent offsets. This means that the

French will have to re-invest 50 per cent of the cost into production arrangements in India. When the negotiations began in July last year, the French had agreed to 30 per cent offsets.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160420/jsp/nation/story_81202.jsp#.Vxa_E545CUk

The usual blah..blah... so according to some jackasses.. India should not have invested in Space Program... India should not build infrastructure.... India should not buy weapons to defend itself... Jab jang hogi to is chati peto class ko brder pe bhej daiainge.... aur jang yahi log jeetainge.....

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

BS article. Kongrsi and leftists are high. Better for our country if we ignore them.

 

[Windjammer]

The Indians have become experts in moving goalposts and boxing above weight.
If a Pakistani politician mentions the danger of Indian threat, it's ridiculed as weakness but when some Indian Neta sounds alarm at Chinese or Pakistani build up..... the fan boys consider it just a ploy for more funds for defence and we all know how the term ''ghass for atmi quowat'' is the favourite Indian punchline....well seems now you getting taste of your own medicine....''ghass ki roti'' must be hard to swallow.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Leave my telegraph out of it. That paper is essential to my morning routine

It is a leftist leaning paper
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BTW what is your take on the following

http://www.thefrustratedindian.com/2015/07/newspapers-in-india-and-their-political-ideologies/

The Telegraph is a hardcore leftist newspaper that oscillates between glorifying the communist traditions to eulogizing the prominent left wing leaders. The paper is brazenly anti BJP, though it features articles from Swapan Das Gupta time and again. While being married to the leftist cause, the Telegraph is also known to clink a few pegs with the Congress party.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Such articles as in the OP makes me want that China should really attack us AGAIN

Only then these idiots will understand the importance of Military power