Rafale Jets"Largest Defence Scam"in India's History

[Osiris]

If Rafale is such a big defence scam in India.

Wonder why Qatar paid $7 Billion for 24 Rafales in 2015. $ 292 Million per aircraft.

Wonder why Egypt paid $5.9 billion for 24 aircrafts. $246 Billion per aircraft.

Qatar bought its Rafales at $292 million ppu, with an extensive training maintenance and weapons package, but without offsets or workshare. Egypt bought their Rafales for $246 million ppu and India paid $243 million, with a less extensive package than Qatar, but with 50% offsets and significant (12) India-specific modifications.

Next batch of 36 Rafales will cost 25 percent less. i.e . $180 million per unit.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

If Rafale is such a big defence scam in India.

Wonder why Qatar paid $7 Billion for 24 Rafales in 2015. $ 292 Million per aircraft.

Wonder why Egypt paid $5.9 billion for 24 aircrafts. $246 Billion per aircraft.

Qatar bought its Rafales at $292 million ppu, with an extensive training maintenance and weapons package, but without offsets or workshare. Egypt bought their Rafales for $246 million ppu and India paid $243 million, with a less extensive package than Qatar, but with 50% offsets and significant (12) India-specific modifications.

Next batch of 36 Rafales will cost 25 percent less. i.e . $180 million per unit.

Qatar and the gulf states are shady especially in defence deals so the details are not clear.

Egypt got a fremm class frigate which is ~500-700 mn per unit and some missiles in their deal.

 

[Osiris]

Qatar and the gulf states are shady especially in defence deals so the details are not clear.

Egypt got a fremm class frigate which is ~500-700 mn per unit and some missiles in their deal.

And Indian got 50 Percent offset(i.e. 50 Percent off the price paid by India $4.4 Billion will be invested by France back into India), 12 India specific modifications, Off the shelf ability to fire nuclear weapons from the aircraft, 2 maitainace bases , a much better training and weapons package than Egypt.

Believe it or not India got the best deal for this aircraft barring French airforce itself.

 

[Trango Towers]

And Indian got 50 Percent offset(i.e. 50 Percent off the price paid by India $4.4 Billion will be invested by France back into India), 12 India specific modifications, Off the shelf ability to fire nuclear weapons from the aircraft, 2 maitainace bases , a much better training and weapons package than Egypt.

Believe it or not India got the best deal for this aircraft barring French airforce itself.

Of course..india always gets the best.
You know better than even indian experts.
Your law makers are stupid who have actual facts infront of them and they are screaming malpractices. I mean what do they know compared to you

 

[Osiris]

Of course..india always gets the best.
You know better than even indian experts.
Your law makers are stupid who have actual facts infront of them and they are screaming malpractices. I mean what do they know compared to you

If you can argue with facts then quote me.. otherwise I am in no need of your scantimonius rant.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

And Indian got 50 Percent offset(i.e. 50 Percent off the price paid by India $4.4 Billion will be invested by France back into India), 12 India specific modifications, Off the shelf ability to fire nuclear weapons from the aircraft, 2 maitainace bases , a much better training and weapons package than Egypt.

Believe it or not India got the best deal for this aircraft barring French airforce itself.

The point being made is that its not good value for money. Dont expect it to run off-the-shelf, its going to take many years to become profficient with this system at which point the enemies arsenal will certainly have adapted or evolved to counter it.

Maybe thats not a big deal if it was an F-35 or some other high performance 5th gen, but the Rafale is not.

Also paying extra for nuclear launch capability sounds like a complete rip-off considering nobody would use one anyway, you have a no first use policy, and its not exactly cutting-edge even PAF had this for a long time.

 

[Nilgiri]

Good questions but but bad timing. Rahul Gandhi seriously needs to learn politics

That ship has long sailed.

 

[Osiris]

The point being made is that its not good value for money. Dont expect it to run off-the-shelf, its going to take many years to become profficient with this system at which point the enemies arsenal will certainly have adapted or evolved to counter it.

Maybe thats not a big deal if it was an F-35 or some other high performance 5th gen, but the Rafale is not.

Also paying extra for nuclear launch capability sounds like a complete rip-off considering nobody would use one anyway, you have a no first use policy, and its not exactly cutting-edge even PAF had this for a long time.

No body ever claimed European stuff is value for money case in point cars like Mercedes , BMW , Audi.

But then why do they sell like hotcakes?

Given a choice and finances would you rather drive a BMW or some Chinese car.

Infact ability to fire nuclear weapons from Rafale is best possible modification for a minimum cost.

A country with a declared NFU policy needs to have as many diverse platforms available to fire those weapons, as possible. Just in case your primary nuclear delivery platforms get wiped out in the enemy's decapitation strikes.

One needs to have multiple redundancies available for each nuclear launch platform, that can be SSBNs, Land based missiles, Long range Bombers. (In India's case Rafales, Mirages and Jaguars.)

 

[Figaro]

For some years the deal for Rafale Jets had been a sore issue between BJP govt and the opposition. Today Rahul Gandhi raised a few issues again.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288474530302705664

The image below shows the congress was getting a better deal than Modi from the French.

BJPs main financier Anil Ambani got a contract of 30,000 crors instead of HAL.

In the past much has been written about the SCAM.

In the past the BOFORS scam brought the downfall of congress party, today the Rafale scam eclipses the past scams by light years. Although the Rafale is a good jet, but the internal Indian bickering may bring the same fate to this modern machine as it once did to its predecessors in the past.

People often only look at the 250 million dollar per plane price tag. What is equally shocking to me is the length it took to sign the deal and get the aircraft delivered. The IAF announced plans to acquire 126 foreign fighter jets back in 2001. Now only two decades later has India finally begun to receive delivery of these jets, at a shocking 25% of the original acquisition size (at a massively inflated 250 mill price). Rahul Gandhi forgot to mention this point.

 

[SQ8]

Bhaktora logic : by paying more per unit we have gotten the quality we needed to defend the skies which we would have gotten had the jets been bought 10 years ago for half the cost because frankly we don’t prefer made in jets... even if the French train us frkm the ground up; after all, have you seen the Tejas?

 

[Han Patriot]

Bhaktora logic : by paying more per unit we have gotten the quality we needed to defend the skies which we would have gotten had the jets been bought 10 years ago for half the cost because frankly we don’t prefer made in jets... even if the French train us frkm the ground up; after all, have you seen the Tejas?

It makes no diff, look at Galwan Pangong Gogra and Hot Springs. Lol. You guys really think a few planes is gonna change that? We make 5th gen planes.

 

[PurpleButcher]

You're quoting the cost of the F-35, not sure if weapons package is included. Saying one Rafale is worth $250 million is not right. The whole deal includes setting up of Maintenance depot, I hear two depots, training, covers 10 years maintenance cost, weapons package including two types of AA and AG missiles, few additional requirements for India, and ToT deals.

What is the cost of Rafale alone excluding the maintenance depot, 10 year contract, weapons etc? If its not 250 million, which you say and i do agree, what is it? There must surely be a breakdown e.g., 7.2 billion for 36 aircrafts (200 million/aircraft), 1billion for maintenance,1.4 billion for arms and modification etc!

 

[Chhatrapati]

126 aircraft for 10 billion.
36 for almost 7 billion.

You do the math

It's not simple math as buying Timaatar.

The life cycle cost of Netherlands F35 deal is 215 USD which is still cheaper than the Rafale.

What is the cost of Rafale alone excluding the maintenance depot, 10 year contract, weapons etc? If its not 250 million, which you say and i do agree, what is it? There must surely be a breakdown e.g., 7.2 billion for 36 aircrafts (200 million/aircraft), 1billion for maintenance,1.4 billion for arms and modification etc!

Rafale costs $85 million, for 36 rafales around $3 billion
Weapons package $25 million, so it's a hundred M short of $1 billion.
The life cycle of rafale is 40 years, LCC for 10 years is close to $2 billion. $53 million/jet
Setting up of two maintenance depot incl training of staff costs another $1 billion.
$1.7 billion for modifications, additional packages, or India specific changes, and for ToT this part is mostly classified.

Also, 50% of it is offset and is invested back in India.

 

[PurpleButcher]

It's not simple math as buying Timaatar.



Rafale costs $85 million, for 36 rafales around $3 billion
Weapons package $25 million, so it's a hundred M short of $1 billion.
The life cycle of rafale is 40 years, LCC for 10 years is close to $2 billion. $53 million/jet
Setting up of two maintenance depot incl training of staff costs another $1 billion.
$1.7 billion for modifications, additional packages, or India specific changes, and for ToT this part is mostly classified.

Also, 50% of it is offset and is invested back in India.

So basically 80+25=$ 105 Million/aircraft along with weapons. Fair enough not bad
what about the LCC of 2 billion, 53M$/jet. What is this cost? Is it the maintenance and expected spare parts cost?

Thanks in advance

 

[CIA Mole]

Indians would be better off investing all their defence spending into education and infrastructure.

But theyed rather give it to the white man