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‘Rafale is as good as any 5th-generation aircraft’: French defence minister

However, India doesn't really need Rafale to defend (or counter-attack) against a 5th gen aircraft, as yet.

On going talks of purchasing Rafles speaks otherwise.

Just some pictures of J-20 don't proves that it is as stealthy as F-22. "J-20" is nothing but a claim .. and as some chinese forummers point out .. a claim of only fanboys.

It is silly to compare a product which is on trial with one that is finished and be so sure of it. However, it is safe to say that neither are as stealthy as they are supposed to be due to "compromised stealth". F-22 weren't as stealthy as the YF-23 but was chosen because it has better agility and maneuverability . Like wise with J-20's canards, they are there to enhance maneuverability. Both took possibility of aerial dog fights into consideration.

When you say J-20 aren't as stealthy as F-22, I hope you are aware that too, is a "claim". You have no real statistics at hand to back up your claim.

To be honest, Rafale easily looks an over-kill, if IAF were to assess the capabilities of PLAAF or PAF. The current Su-30MKIs are adequate.

I wish your ministry of defense thinks the same.

Rafales does have some advanced technologies, which are indeed better than even Su-30MKI.

Precisely why India needs to buy. China are developing rapidly and India knows this. In order for India to keep up with China's progress they must spend and ensure they seal their deals quickly. Your opposition is the second largest economy after all and so happens to be one of the world's biggest military arms exporter who are throwing billions into its R&D year by year.
 
Correct, because we have the best technology out there. We already have iron dome like interceptor weapons that uses rail guns.
why would F-35 needs typhoon escort. Then the enemy would know that the planes are be coming as Typhoon is radar visible and F-35 has much more stealth.

1. "We have" means Americans have, right? Your country flag is Taiwan, your location flag is USA...and you think everything American is yours to show-off, and then you are always cheerleading for China....such a poor confused identity....always found trolling in India related threads. Very sad.

2. F-35 will replace Tornado as a striker-bomber, and Typhoon & F-35 will fly together for sharing a2a & a2g role. F-35 needs Typhoon escort as F-35 is not a very capable air superiority fighter.

China is not getting any TOT as they can reverse engineer and improved upon an existing product. India is not capable of improve upon a system while getting TOT. Worse yet, India is not capable of maintaining planes as they turn into flying coffins.

China is not getting any TOT, BECAUSE they reverse engineer violating every international patent & copyright protection.
And what is PLAF crash rate....nobody knows the exact figure....but it is nothing to be proud of, from whatever leaked news outside world gets.

It is the the usual marketing pitch. It is not 5th gen for reasons. If, indeed, it was "just as good" it would have been in the fifth gen category. India would not have partnered the Russians on the T-50. I am sure India is not as gullible as this man, Jean-Yves Le Drian, thinks.

Exactly....thanks for not being a fan boy. :tup:

This is the problem with India. Despite spending half their government budget on military and military-related things, India still cannot reverse engineer. Even Iran can do this. Pretty much all of India's 'indigenous' weapons are assembled by foreign experts from imported foreign components.
Worst of all is that their military don't know how to operate the weapons they import, this is proven by the fact that the Indian airforce has a shameful crash record. I don't see this changing for another couple of decades atleast.
Unless India learns how to make components by themselves, their dream of catching up with China will remain just that.....a dream!

India still cannot reverse engineer: WRONG.....India will not reverse engineer: RIGHT. We respect patents & copyrights. That is one of the reasons why most countries won't sell their high-end military technologies to China.
And what is PLAF's crash rate.....do you have any idea?

BTW, we spend 3% to 3.5% of our GDP in defence....where did you get "HALF the budget"?

First, India don't know how to make reverse engineering, Second, you wouldn't dare because you're afraid of international sanction...even with thousand excuse, you won't flush away these two facts.

It is like saying that "You wouldn't steal as you are afraid of going to jail"........No, we simply consider stealing is bad....different people; different perception.
 
When did India had an indigenous engine program of Su30MKI??last time whenI gave you list of Indian developed parts in Su 30 MKI I got no replies from you...and HAL has produced many jet Enginesnes including that of Su 30 in India,heck it even designed a turbojet back in the 60s

And If you are mocking Kaveri,let me tell you,as a citizen of a country which cannot design car engines,you should
keep quiet

Instead of cryin read the source he provided... as for license producing su-30 engine.. read the source i provide... even this year india imported 10+ engines from russia... as for designing a turbojet in 60s... yeah right... And keep quiet? lol.. go feed 450 million mouths first instead of ranting.... same goes for the few small parts you produce for su-30..
 
Cool story... what happened to the "new indigenous engine for su-30 under going tests"... :lol:


Here is a more recent news and not from a "blog":

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=vlSwCNNyeMIX5whp5S7KUA&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg

P.S : read assembling started in 2004... and increase of parts with time... and till last year... read the above news...

Lots of discrepancies in this article.

1) THe Pilatus delivery has already started.

2) IJT has cleared the spin tests and is also fast tracked by the HAL for IOC within this year as declared by the MoS of defence.

3) The SU 30 was never supposed to be 12 aircrafts but 18 aircrafts in 12 months.

4) The FGFA was never supposed to enter the IAF before 2020.

Instead of cryin read the source he provided... as for license producing su-30 engine.. read the source i provide... even this year india imported 10+ engines from russia... as for designing a turbojet in 60s... yeah right... And keep quiet? lol.. go feed 450 million mouths first instead of ranting.... same goes for the few small parts you produce for su-30..

Can you provide a source for this? As long as I heard that all engines for SU 30 MKI is made by India. We are importing a few components like the FADEC for the engine. But not the whole engine as per the reports.
 
Lots of discrepancies in this article.

1) THe Pilatus delivery has already started.

2) IJT has cleared the spin tests and is also fast tracked by the HAL for IOC within this year as declared by the MoS of defence.

3) The SU 30 was never supposed to be 12 aircrafts but 18 aircrafts in 12 months.

4) The FGFA was never supposed to enter the IAF before 2020.

Its not the only article on the issue... you can search and get more...


Can you provide a source for this? As long as I heard that all engines for SU 30 MKI is made by India. We are importing a few components like the FADEC for the engine. But not the whole engine as per the reports.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=ITn2x25dLhhrD7SyjwMVSQ&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=GHrpUx8snLm7lRBSNzLKvQ&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=H6kypxJ6-Wb-uvYMxHSkTQ&bvm=bv.49784469,d.dmg
 
On going talks of purchasing Rafles speaks otherwise.

What do on-going talks about china's Su-35 purchase speak?

India hasn't shown any urgency for Rafales.. because the reason isn't any urgent defence need, but a technology purchase.
(in fact, many are complaining India is being too slow .. though, I believe its because we want the best deal, price-wise and technology transfer-wise).



It is silly to compare a product which is on trial with one that is finished and be so sure of it. However, it is safe to say that neither are as stealthy as they are supposed to be due to "compromised stealth". F-22 weren't as stealthy as the YF-23 but was chosen because it has better agility and maneuverability . Like wise with J-20's canards, they are there to enhance maneuverability. Both took possibility of aerial dog fights into consideration.

When you say J-20 aren't as stealthy as F-22, I hope you are aware that too, is a "claim". You have no real statistics at hand to back up your claim.

Very well, then, you can continue to have your "view" that J-20 is an "invisible" aircraft. Best of luck, if it gets tested in war (ever).

In any case, defence against a 5th aircraft is not another 5th gen aircraft ... but sophisticated radars. (although, that doesn't automatically mean that J-20 deserves a sophisticated radar. As of now, it's just a photo .. or your fantasies).

Another 5th gen aircrat has only a counter-attack value .... which is also available via advanced 4.5 gen aircraft if the adversary doesn't have adequate air defence against 4.5 gen aircrafts.

Btw.. leave alone Rafale, even FGFA is mainly is a co-development for 5th gen technologies.

Some chinese forummers think that a weapons-embargo against PRC is good...:laugh:

Truth is that the embargo increases the cost of every weapons development in PRC .. reducing the defence value per unit money spent.

F-22 isn't 100% with american parts ... infer things yourself. :tup:

I wish your ministry of defense thinks the same.



Precisely why India needs to buy. China are developing rapidly and India knows this. In order for India to keep up with China's progress they must spend and ensure they seal their deals quickly. Your opposition is the second largest economy after all and so happens to be one of the world's biggest military arms exporter who are throwing billions into its R&D year by year.

The less you talk about chinese economy these days, the safer your argument is.

Trust .. nobody got rich by selling "too cheap". :tup:

World is buying china's coal .. and pretty much everything else it mines .. quite cheap. :tup:


Let's see how much more china has.
 
Yes, India has already taking it hook, line and sinkers.



But Indians are smart, they bought this 5th generation plane precisely because its 5th generation.

Sir the deal was for 4-4.5 Gen MMRCA jets we all know that and rafale won it......currently india's only 5th gen will be PAKFGFA......so please........no need to be sarcastic....yeah yeah we know that the price is too much....but wat can v do :\ ....u should blame the policy makers for that
 
Instead of cryin read the source he provided... as for license producing su-30 engine.. read the source i provide... even this year india imported 10+ engines from russia... as for designing a turbojet in 60s... yeah right... And keep quiet? lol.. go feed 450 million mouths first instead of ranting.... same goes for the few small parts you produce for su-30..

There was licence production of AL31FP in India:
Welcome to Engine Division, Koraput of HAL

It was the additional purchase option of 920 engines that was exercised now. I am not sure if all the engines would be imported or some would be licence produced.
 

Did you even read the article? Those engines were ordered only last year and is a follow on order of 920 engines. Those are the ones that are placed over the original 2000 engines ordered.

Dont mix both the orders and confuse yourself.
 
Instead of cryin read the source he provided... as for license producing su-30 engine.. read the source i provide... even this year india imported 10+ engines from russia... as for designing a turbojet in 60s... yeah right... And keep quiet? lol.. go feed 450 million mouths first instead of ranting.... same goes for the few small parts you produce for su-30..
do you guys have any other thing to say except the "poverty and hunger" thingy....??/ its getting boring now
and lame as u guys keep on saying the same thing over and over again and that too not at all related with the current ongoing topic....haha typical pakistanis.....how would u guys feel if we start sayin..."stay inside your house or u will be blown into pieces" again and again and again everytime even if the topic is about...lets say....PAF's jetfighter performance ...hmmm ???
 
do you guys have any other thing to say except the "poverty and hunger" thingy....??/ its getting boring now
and lame as u guys keep on saying the same thing over and over again and that too not at all related with the current ongoing topic....haha typical pakistanis.....how would u guys feel if we start sayin..."stay inside your house or u will be blown into pieces" again and again and again everytime even if the topic is about...lets say....PAF's jetfighter performance ...hmmm ???

If you rant ... than dont expect a thank you either.
@Kloitra and satis thanks for the sources... :tup:
 
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Instead of cryin read the source he provided... as for license producing su-30 engine.. read the source i provide... even this year india imported 10+ engines from russia.

The.orginal.Su 30 MKI deal signed in 2000 have 920 AL31 engi.ines manufactured in HAL Koraput division read
posts #64 and #69
.. as for designing a turbojet in 60s... yeah right...

Yeah,continue to live in Denial

nd keep quiet? lol.. go feed 450 million mouths first instead of ranting....

And here comes the good old pdf gem :lol:..keep ranting about poverty,while our poverty is reducing and we are going ahead in infrastructure and industry,there are dedicated threads about that in general mutimedia sectioon,why dont you discuss it there??
samegoes for the few s post #64 and #mall parts you prode for su-30..

Yeah small parts,like Core Avionics computer,Mission computer,Display processor,Radar Computers,IFf,RWR,MFDs and the like

Now is Pakistan capable of developing these??

No???then shut up
 
If you rant ... than dont expect a thank you either.
@Kloitra and satis thanks for the sources... :tup:

bro i didnt rant n why should i rant...pakistan is a resource rich country.....it has all the potential....the thing is why do you reply to someone who is BSing....ignore him.....by replyin to someone like him will only bring u to his level tatz it n stop sayin the same thing again and again ....we know tat our country has many poor and hungry n v are not proud of it...tryin our best to get those people out of their problems as much as v can....peace V
 
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bro i didnt rant n why should i rant...pakistan is a resource rich country.....it has all the potential....the thing is why do you reply to someone who is BSing....ignore him.....by replyin to someone like him will only bring u to his level tatz it n stop sayin the same thing again and again ....we know tat our country has many poor and hungry n v are not proud of it...tryin our best to get those people out of their problems as much as v can....peace V

Trolling about each others poverty may not be a good option for an Indian or a Pakistani,since both countries have almost same percapita income and HDI,and they are very much low,even when it is compare to other developing countries

Anyways continue with the discussion
@DESERT FIGHTER if you want to discuss poverty,start a new thread
 
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RAFALE has something which only 2 other fighter jets have. An advanced 5TH gen EW spoofing system combined with network centric capability.

F22 - ALR 94
F35 - AN/ASQ-239
RAFALE - SPECTRA

not even the PAKFA , SU35, J20 come close.

J20 has some absolutely unstealthy features. A canard system without the EF2000 type contol system. A rail launch system for side pylons that makes an internal bay into a external pod temporarily increasing RCS. Bad design of weapons bay. Even F35 can put 6 AIM 120D in BLK 2017. Underpowered engines and RCS inadequacies. Without su35 engine and rdar it is finished. Even Super Sukhoi will have the su 35 features, deal signed during Putin december visit.

F35 most people diss. But do you know it has a 220KN engine attached to it. A 2.5 ton lower internal volume than f18SH yet packs more fuel, ew equipment and a internal bay with fighter configuration and literally no wing loading. Frontal stealth rumoured to be better than f22. The flat body generates lift without using LERX and can easily reach 75 degress AoA.
Energy diagram better than f18SH. At transonic speed behaves like f22. Can supercruise at mach 1.2.
 

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