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Rafale deal faces many obstacles

doublemaster

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Our government celebrates every thing before the work is actually done on the ground. why?


Rafale deal faces many obstacles - The Hindu
India and France are engaged in intense negotiations to thrash out an inter-governmental agreement which would provide the framework for final negotiation on the deal for 36 Rafale fighters.

Sources on both sides said the deal was far from final conclusion, and serious differences over almost every major aspect of the deal for the advanced fighters remain. Among them are French side’s concerns about a major Indian private sector conglomerate whose services are being recommended by some sections of the Indian government.

Officials said a delegation of senior officials from the French government had been in New Delhi for the past few days fine-tuning the agreement to be signed between the two sides.

The deal for the purchase of 36 fighters from Dassault announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Paris in April is yet to be formally signed into an agreement. “It would be a framework under which we will have to deal with various aspects of the deal,” a source said.

One official in the know of things said the French side had several concerns that could play out as both sides sit down to carry out specific negotiations. Key among them is their questions about what role a major Indian private conglomerate would play in the deal. Due diligence done on the group, recommended strongly by a section in the government, has thrown up questions over its financial capabilities, the sources said.

The two sides could also find the negotiations running into serious trouble over the offset clause for the deal. While the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal — the precursor to the present Rafale deal — had 50 per cent offset, and most of its fighters were to be assembled in India, the deal under negotiation is for off-the-shelf purchase of 36 fighters from France.

The Economic Times on Tuesday reported that a major breakthrough was imminent in the deal with the French side agreeing to an Indian condition that calls for investing 50 per cent of the deal value in ‘Make in India’ projects in the defence, security and aerospace sectors. Under the formula, the newspaper said, French investments in other projects, including in civilian sectors, will also be considered as meeting offset obligations. Sources said the French side was hopeful of a more liberalised offset policy, without which the contract would be difficult to execute. Another issue would be over the final price of the fighter. Sources said India could demand mounting of some non-French armaments on Rafale, which could also add to further complications in the deal.

@ranjeet @jamahir @doublemaster @JanjaWeed
 
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Among them are French side’s concerns about a major Indian private sector conglomerate whose services are being recommended by some sections of the Indian government.

Key among them is their questions about what role a major Indian private conglomerate would play in the deal. Due diligence done on the group, recommended strongly by a section in the government, has thrown up questions over its financial capabilities, the sources said.

@ranjeet @jamahir @doublemaster @JanjaWeed

I wonder which is this major Indian private conglomerate?

Initially French had it's concerns with HAL. Now they have concerns with major Indian private conglomerate too.

Seems like French have concerns selling Rafales to India.
 
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I wonder which is this major Indian private conglomerate?

Initially French had it's concerns with HAL. Now they have concerns with major Indian private conglomerate too.

Seems like French have concerns selling Rafales to India.
o bhai le b lo ab Rafael...asa lgta he 100 saal pehle deal start hui ti...abi tk facing problems
Lena he to lo..nai to jaan choro!!!
 
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Our government celebrates every thing before the work is actually done on the ground. why?


Rafale deal faces many obstacles - The Hindu
India and France are engaged in intense negotiations to thrash out an inter-governmental agreement which would provide the framework for final negotiation on the deal for 36 Rafale fighters.

Sources on both sides said the deal was far from final conclusion, and serious differences over almost every major aspect of the deal for the advanced fighters remain. Among them are French side’s concerns about a major Indian private sector conglomerate whose services are being recommended by some sections of the Indian government.

Officials said a delegation of senior officials from the French government had been in New Delhi for the past few days fine-tuning the agreement to be signed between the two sides.

The deal for the purchase of 36 fighters from Dassault announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Paris in April is yet to be formally signed into an agreement. “It would be a framework under which we will have to deal with various aspects of the deal,” a source said.

One official in the know of things said the French side had several concerns that could play out as both sides sit down to carry out specific negotiations. Key among them is their questions about what role a major Indian private conglomerate would play in the deal. Due diligence done on the group, recommended strongly by a section in the government, has thrown up questions over its financial capabilities, the sources said.

The two sides could also find the negotiations running into serious trouble over the offset clause for the deal. While the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal — the precursor to the present Rafale deal — had 50 per cent offset, and most of its fighters were to be assembled in India, the deal under negotiation is for off-the-shelf purchase of 36 fighters from France.

The Economic Times on Tuesday reported that a major breakthrough was imminent in the deal with the French side agreeing to an Indian condition that calls for investing 50 per cent of the deal value in ‘Make in India’ projects in the defence, security and aerospace sectors. Under the formula, the newspaper said, French investments in other projects, including in civilian sectors, will also be considered as meeting offset obligations. Sources said the French side was hopeful of a more liberalised offset policy, without which the contract would be difficult to execute. Another issue would be over the final price of the fighter. Sources said India could demand mounting of some non-French armaments on Rafale, which could also add to further complications in the deal.

@ranjeet @jamahir @doublemaster @JanjaWeed
So despite the fact that this deal (in its current configuration) is the brain child of a self-styled administrator PM, has attained DAC to initiate final talks and all meetings held between high levels of both sides (and their respective governments) have led to favourable outcomes (the latest between the two highest officials in the French and Indian governments on Monday) this deal is still in trouble??

yeah-okay-whatever-floats-your-goat.jpg






I wonder who paid for this BS article? The Eurofighter consortium? Russia? SAAB?
 
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i am sure even when deal is signed then also press will say problems.. i can guess they will harp on price part surely!!! inspite of any attempts to understand the components..

When inducted, again there would be article of high handed ness..

After few years, there would be stories of similar operational availability as MKIs and again people will point we should have bought the beast MKI only

When Make In India will start, the reports of business conglomerate to ruling NDA will come out surely

Then reports of France not giving TOT and India doing only assembly from Kits will again be made headlines

After a decade when MLU plan will come to discuss or perhaps the F4I program again "discontentment" and "obstacles will come in"


Bottomline: Any deal in any of the tri services which takes time, will always have "discontentment", "obstacles", price heckles, and possibly many more - All according to media..
For the negotiators its business as usual.. for the company its the same as usual....
 
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So despite the fact that this deal (in its current configuration) is the brain child of a self-styled administrator PM, has attained DAC to initiate final talks and all meetings held between high levels of both sides (and their respective governments) have led to favourable outcomes (the latest between the two highest officials in the French and Indian governments on Monday) this deal is still in trouble??

yeah-okay-whatever-floats-your-goat.jpg






I wonder who paid for this BS article? The Eurofighter consortium? Russia? SAAB?

Deal initial propaganda was 4B they are buying, next they said it will be same price as french army, Now it looks like it will cost 8B$ for 36. Moreover no one would have written about this unless "deal was announced first".

i am sure even when deal is signed then also press will say problems.. i can guess they will harp on price part surely!!! inspite of any attempts to understand the components..

When inducted, again there would be article of high handed ness..

After few years, there would be stories of similar operational availability as MKIs and again people will point we should have bought the beast MKI only

When Make In India will start, the reports of business conglomerate to ruling NDA will come out surely

Then reports of France not giving TOT and India doing only assembly from Kits will again be made headlines

After a decade when MLU plan will come to discuss or perhaps the F4I program again "discontentment" and "obstacles will come in"


Bottomline: Any deal in any of the tri services which takes time, will always have "discontentment", "obstacles", price heckles, and possibly many more - All according to media..
For the negotiators its business as usual.. for the company its the same as usual....
That was the case even before Modi become PM. unfortunately u enjoyed those moments. Now its our time :)
 
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Deal initial propaganda was 4B they are buying, next they said it will be same price as french army, Now it looks like it will cost 8B$ for 36. Moreover no one would have written about this unless "deal was announced first".
No one outside of a select few officials from both sides knows the true cost of this deal yet- NO ONE, don't believe any of the nonsense these media clowns are typing up, I for one will question all of their motives, they have continuously spewed misinformation on this deal at the behest of vested interests.


When was the "deal announced first"? Only the intention has been announced.
 
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I wonder which is this major Indian private conglomerate?

Initially French had it's concerns with HAL. Now they have concerns with major Indian private conglomerate too.

Seems like French have concerns selling Rafales to India.

All indications point towards ADAG, specially the once stating financial concerns.
 
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So at what price you would be happy for 36 fighters?

I would be pissed off at anything above 5.5-6 billion dollars.

Anything in the range of $ 175-180 Mn for total ownership cost for 40 years inclusive of everything including fuel to whatever we can imagine i mean right from infra to base setup to anything and everything which i have pasted in main rafale sticky thread... so 175x36 puts $ 6.3B - 6.5Bn (for $180 Mn)

Weapons i imagine top it $ 1 Bn more so yes the deal size should be my own estimation $ 7.5 Bn

for information again
9260f8a5.jpg

Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2] | Page 89

My estimation rationale
If we recall old rafale price prcie as per french reports as on 2012 it was around Euro 74 Mn or something. so if i consider say the double of that cost for the overall ownership cost it comes to Euro 148 Mn which is $165 Mn (at Euro/USD @ 1.12)
Why double why not triple? reason being the engine lifetime of Rafale is much higher than MKIs. ALso the design of rafales for spares service is such that its easier to replace parts then say MKI. Thus if Lifetime cost of MKI is say 2.5-3 times the initial cost then rafale will be lower.
 
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This so called mother of all deal is a mental torture.
 

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France is anxious to sell - have cut price by 25% from what they sold to Qatar earlier this year for similar size deal. Indians are pushing for some mods that French say if anyone else does, they can't support - meanwhile Indians are asking for a price which is even lower than what French air force paid! I guess Indians are trading 'mods' for price....would love to be in that negotiation team!
 
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Seems Indian wants to buy the whole plant for the price of one plane...
 
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