RAF Eurofighter Typhoons 'beaten by Pakistani F-16s'

[SQ8]

Not really... i have always considered PAF to be one of best A/F's around the world.. but then your compadres often ask us to import pilots from Russia, don't they? and thats considered humor...

I take you word for it , agreed F16 pilots scored hits on EFT... what bearing does this have on the Aircraft?

Costs like a Raptor, flies like a Tornado- Tagline is promoting what exactly ?

British tabloids having a heyday with their government and military expenditure..
wasnt that difficult to see beyond the text in that one.

 

[MilSpec]

DO U WANT TO SAY THAT COPE INDIA WAS A BETTER TEST OF THE CAPABILITIES OF THE PILOTS AND THE AIRCRAFTS THEN RED FLAG???

How did you derrive that from my post... Indians were good at Bhangda at cope... so they played daler mehndi... USAF wanted to hip hop so played Lil wayne...

On foreign Turf, You dont want to open all your cards and neither do you want to Humiliate yourself or the hosts so you put on a decent show with decent pilots and learn as much as you can.... then US is a PAF ally, it would be suicidal to let USAF get a whif of radar specs of MKI,

It is logical USAF could have shot down a lot more at gwalior if they came out all guns blazing and Indians would have done noteworthy damage are red flag if they were unrestrained...

These are exercises.. nothing more .. nothing less..

 

[Windjammer]

True... but isn't this a spectator sport... I have seen a lot posters with various ways to conclude the nullification of IAF's supremacy... I have never claimed PAF being weak or easy adversary.. But on contrast some disillusioned posters seem to addressing every IAF acquisition as junk ... hence the line of rhetoric...No offense ,seriously!

Spectator sport for the arm chair generals indeed. What to say of some General opening up two fronts and initiating cold start or something, going by your logic, his opposite numbers should have held a flag meeting or perhaps come up with a four front strategy. The Typhoon is certainly no junk but it's not as invincible as some would have us believe and the PAF boys only just proved that.

 

[majesticpankaj]

if someone asks for authentic source...then his soul must be burring... .. pathetic excuse

 

[MilSpec]

Spectator sport for the arm chair generals indeed. What to say of some General opening up two fronts and initiating cold start or something, going by your logic, his opposite numbers should have held a flag meeting or perhaps come up with a four front strategy. The Typhoon is certainly no junk but it's not as invincible as some would have us believe and the PAF boys only just proved that.

Pointless... you scored allegedly some hits in an exercise against EFT flown by "NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat" according to PAF pilot... even if above is considered as fact

How does that discount the aircraft which has better thrust, better avionics, better sensor suite and radar?

I congratulate the pilot/s who achieved this success in the exercise... they have proved better skill than that pilot flying the EFT... please dont extrapolate this to being a weakness of EFT... that is just ridiculous... Just because Gnats scored kills over sabers doesn't make Gnats superior to sabers, Right?

 

[RAZA SAHI]

well this encounter reflects the training & operational methods chosen by both airforces. One should keep in mind the geoghraphical locations & the threats posed to the countries by their adversaries. PAKISTAN's geography & the threat perception from it's main rival with a very large & competeive airforce makes it imperative that it's pilots have highest level of close combat skills. Whereas THE UK has no hostile rival within the EUROPIAN UNION apart from a very distant possibilty of RUSSIA. All the immediate & medium term possible theaters of action where the RAF might get involved are a
long distance away from it's borders with the beyond visual range capability coming into play the most. In my view the outcome if true, is a good reflection of the training methods & combat styles of both the airforces. there is nothing extraordinary here.

 

[Windjammer]

Pointless... you scored allegedly some hits in an exercise against EFT flown by "NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat" according to PAF pilot... even if above is considered as fact

How does that discount the aircraft which has better thrust, better avionics, better sensor suite and radar?

I congratulate the pilot/s who achieved this success in the exercise... they have proved better skill than that pilot flying the EFT... please dont extrapolate this to being a weakness of EFT... that is just ridiculous... Just because Gnats scored kills over sabers doesn't make Gnats superior to sabers, Right?

Read my post again, "Typhoon is certainly no junk", as for the rest, it's an old proverb, plane is as good as it's pilot. The so called some hits were actually three out of three set ups. Typhoon indeed may excel in electronic suite and power ratio but unlike say the F-16, it lacks any real battle practice except some ground strikes against non opposition.
And how did you conclude any assessment as aircraft weakness, the PAF pilot is on record for attributing the success on being more proficient in close in combat, i certainly don't see any finger pointing at the aircraft in that. In a NATO exercise, RAF Jaguars scored against US Eagles, during the '71 war, Sabers shot down Indian MIG-21s, while both the RAF Jaguars and PAF Sabers have melted into history, their victims still serve in frontal squadrons, and even when these fly off into sun set, the ever evolving skills and tactics will remain, hence the man in the cockpit that really matters.

 

[Mo12]

Could this news mean UK, Germany etc losing out on $10billion worth of India money?

 

[luckyyy]

DO U WANT TO SAY THAT COPE INDIA WAS A BETTER TEST OF THE CAPABILITIES OF THE PILOTS AND THE AIRCRAFTS THEN RED FLAG???

yes , cope india was a visual range angagment whereas rd flag was a beyound visual range angagments..

 

[luckyyy]

if someone asks for authentic source...then his soul must be burring... .. pathetic excuse

don't worry even bigger news on it's way when soudhi arabian typhoon will meet jf-17..
be prepared !!

 

[SBD-3]

if someone asks for authentic source...then his soul must be burring... .. pathetic excuse

I asked you to spend some 8 GBPs to have a copy. If you dont have that money do let me know I ll arrange the article for you....

 

[Mav3rick]

good job yes paf f 16 can beat UFO even they sometimes run fast then speed of light .........i think paf piolts go for comedy shows ...........

Really intelligent reply!

If you Indians need a lesson on PAF v/s IAF, read up history of our wars that should tell you how capable PAF really is even against a much larger and better equipped AF. Till then you may continue with your 'highly intelligent' remarks!

 

[Jango]

well this encounter reflects the training & operational methods chosen by both airforces. One should keep in mind the geoghraphical locations & the threats posed to the countries by their adversaries. PAKISTAN's geography & the threat perception from it's main rival with a very large & competeive airforce makes it imperative that it's pilots have highest level of close combat skills. Whereas THE UK has no hostile rival within the EUROPIAN UNION apart from a very distant possibilty of RUSSIA. All the immediate & medium term possible theaters of action where the RAF might get involved are a
long distance away from it's borders with the beyond visual range capability coming into play the most. In my view the outcome if true, is a good reflection of the training methods & combat styles of both the airforces. there is nothing extraordinary here.

the best reply on this thread which is cool headed

 

[naveenp]

The behaviour of Indians is like that of a bewildered divorcee, who feels shattered to witness next couple happy. Considering the news first appeared almost a year earlier, long before any MMCA finalisation but may be it's not the Typhoon either for the final deal, but hell, one encounter has had more effect on the Indian psyche than when their own SU-30 ended up in the loosing corner. Salute to the PAF for having such a Psychological effect on the opposition.

u made my day.

 

[abaseen99]

RAF Eurofighter Typhoons Pilots ‘Beaten By PAF F-16Viper Pilots
Submitted by Faddy Qazi on June 12, 2011 – 11:46 pm

A special feature posted on the PAF Falcons web site provides a fascinating transcript of a one-on-one interview with an anonymous, although apparently very senior, Pakistani Air Force F-16 pilot.






Pakistani pilots flying modernised versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF’s brand-new Euro fighter Typhoon super fighters during air combat exercises in Turkey,

according to a Pakistani officer.

The Pakistani pilot manages to embarrass the pride of the Royal Air Force, candidly describe Israeli air-to-air prowess and explain how the US keeps the F-16 Block 52’s secrets away from the Pakistanis and – by extension – the Chinese.


On the RAF Typhoon:

On one occasion – in one of the international Anatolian Eagles – PAF pilots were pitted against RAF Typhoons, a formidable aircraft. There were three set-ups and in all three, we shot down the Typhoons.

The RAF pilots were shocked.
Q: Any particular reason for your success?

A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.



It’s always possible, as the anonymous Pakistani pilot suggests,

that the problem was with the crews. It may be that RAF pilots simply don’t know how to fight close-in. During the many years when they had no other fighter than the lamentable Tornado F3 (the Typhoon only reached front line service a few years ago) they may have lost the institutional skill set required for dog-fighting with short-range missiles.

But in general when the British forces perform badly it isn’t because of a lack of skills and training. It’s far more normal for them to be let down by their kit. Based on this account, the Typhoon is actually worse than an F-16, and as a result an export Flanker or Fulcrum equipped with Archer missiles would beat it easily in WVR combat.

It would appear that the Euro fighter’s last remaining selling point compared to modern US-made stealth fighters which cost the same or less (or for that matter vastly cheaper ordinary non-stealth fighters like the F-16, F-18 Hornet etc) now has something of a question mark over it.

The Euro fighter hits just keep on coming. Not to Forget EuroFighter is among the last two contenders of India’s MMRCA competition.

On the Israelis:

Q: What are the Israelis afraid of?

A: What they fear most is that we might learn about their tactics, especially BVR countermeasure tactics, which they have mastered.
On US concerns about the Chinese:

To recall an interesting little story: Soon after the first F-16s were delivered to Pakistan in the mid-80s, the PLAAF Chief visited Sargodha. The Americans were there as well. As a gesture of courtesy, the PAF showed the PLAAF Chief one of the F-16s and let him sit in the cockpit. Some US technicians were there looking on. As soon as the PLAAF Chief sat in the F-16 cockpit, the first thing he did was to start measuring the HUD with his fingers, you know, when you extend your little finger and thumb to measure something? This worried the Americans.
On US export control practices:

They have ways of keeping an eye on the Block 52s without being personally present. The main concern is the transfer of cutting-edge technology – the avionics and radar, the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) the Sniper pod. They have put digital seals all the sensitive technologies, which can only be opened via a code, which only they know. If there is a malfunction or these parts need to be serviced, they will be taken out of the Block 52s and shipped back to the US for repairs/servicing. If we try to pry open these systems without the codes, inbuilt alarms will be relayed to the Americans, which will be a breach of the contract.
Q: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.
Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device. complete interview