Questions about Butt/Khawaja clan and Kashmiri descendants in Pakistan

[django]

We rleruled Afghanistan for 500 years.

HAHAHAHAHAAAAA in your dreams, anyway a brahamin from Potohar would have been completely different from one in Tamil Nadu...now stay banned!

 

[MujtabaDar]

My grandmother is from amritsar by caste she is a khwaja wani. She married a butt by caste (obviously my nana) my mom married a Dar my dad and it's a fact that my family members don't like kashmiri sheikh most of my family says them non ethnic which is something true but not in all conditions.

 

[Ocean]

Hey everybody, I got some questions about my heritage.

I'm of Pakistani descent and my family have Kashmiri ancestry, our forefathers migrated from Kashmir (around Sringar) to rural North Punjab near Sialkot & Gujranwala and later my grandparents branched out to other cities across Pakistan. We belong to the Butt clan but also use Khawaja as a our last name or title, now the thing is I'm confused about whether Khawajas and Butts are the same clan or we're 2 different clans.

From what I've read, most Kashmiris settled in Punjab adopted 'Butt' as their lastname as a collective identifier of their Kashmiri heritage even if they didn't actually belong to the Butt clan. Pretty much all people with the last name Butt also use Khawaja as a last name. All the men in my family get refered to as 'Butt saabs" in Pakistan however my father says we're actually Khawajas and Butt was just a collective name.

Is there a difference between the two clans? Did they descend from two different groups or castes in Kashmir? All I know is that my Great Great-Grandfathers and their fathers were rice sellers in Kashmir before settling across the near the Punjab-Jammu border and getting involved in business, so what clan or caste might we be? It is quite amazing how my family and ancestors manage to branch out across Pakistan and the world and get an education, now we have nothing to do with farming or agriculture though I do have some extended relatives left in Upper Punjab who haven't changed at all.

If there are any Butts/Khawajas on here, what do you know about the clan?

From my limited knowledge i would share. Bhatt was a title awarded to the scholars in hinduism. It was given to brahmins mainly afaik. In kashmir scholars from brahmin community were conferred bhatt title, the same title was also given to scholarship in other parts of india . You will find bhatts a,ong gujratis and many other ethnicities in india. When these bhatts form kashmir converted to islam some retained their names some changed their surnames.

In pakistan butt name did not refer to any single clan. It became a generic name for multiple kashmiri ethnicities like mir, dar ,butts , lones etc . Meaning that people from different clan names but kashmiri lineage started using butt as a surname. You could be originally lone but your family could be using butt as a surname.

My grandmonther and great grandfather spent their whole lifes yearning to visit their ancestral towns in kashmir till they passed away

 

[waraich66]

True Kashmiris are never soldiers. We are a cowardly non-martial race known by the nickname of 'hato'.

We are enemies of brave races such as Pathans etc. Pashtuns who live in Kashmir hate Kashmiris and vice-versa. See this:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593546217352398

When Kashmiris first arrived in Punjab we were known for thee things.

1) Beauty, fair skin etc
2) Heavy eating, meat-eating, rice-eating etc
3) Cowardliness, lack of courage etc

If you are brave or a soldier you are simply not a Kashmiri. We have nothing to do with bravehearts (read murderous, rapist) and we are proud of that.

KASHMIRIS are intelligent people , Allama Iqbal ra was kashmiri

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Hey everybody, I got some questions about my heritage.

I'm of Pakistani descent and my family have Kashmiri ancestry, our forefathers migrated from Kashmir (around Sringar) to rural North Punjab near Sialkot & Gujranwala and later my grandparents branched out to other cities across Pakistan. We belong to the Butt clan but also use Khawaja as a our last name or title, now the thing is I'm confused about whether Khawajas and Butts are the same clan or we're 2 different clans.

From what I've read, most Kashmiris settled in Punjab adopted 'Butt' as their lastname as a collective identifier of their Kashmiri heritage even if they didn't actually belong to the Butt clan. Pretty much all people with the last name Butt also use Khawaja as a last name. All the men in my family get refered to as 'Butt saabs" in Pakistan however my father says we're actually Khawajas and Butt was just a collective name.

Is there a difference between the two clans? Did they descend from two different groups or castes in Kashmir? All I know is that my Great Great-Grandfathers and their fathers were rice sellers in Kashmir before settling across the near the Punjab-Jammu border and getting involved in business, so what clan or caste might we be? It is quite amazing how my family and ancestors manage to branch out across Pakistan and the world and get an education, now we have nothing to do with farming or agriculture though I do have some extended relatives left in Upper Punjab who haven't changed at all.

If there are any Butts/Khawajas on here, what do you know about the clan?

Khawaja
"Khwaja" redirects here. For the city in Iran, see Khajeh. For the village in Iran, see Bagh-e Khvajeh.
For other uses, see Khawaja (disambiguation).
Part of a series on Islam
Khawaja is an honorific title used across the Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia and Central Asia, particularly towards Sufi teachers. The word comes from the Iranian word khwāja (Classical Persian: خواجه khwāja; Dari khājah; Tajik khoja) and translates as "master", "lord" . The spellings hodja or hoca (Turkish), খাজা (Khaaja) (Bengali), hodža (Bosnian), hoxha (Albanian), хоџа (Serbian), χότζας (chótzas) (Greek), hogea (Romanian), koja (Javanese).[1] The name is also used in Egypt and Sudan to indicate a person with a foreign nationality or foreign heritage.[2]
khawajas are the Pakhtun Afghan Tribes from Ghazni, these tribes left Afghanistan with different conquerors towards subcontinent for Jihad and Trade. Now a days these tribes are located in Ghazni, Quetta, on the Bank of Jhelum River, and in Balochistan at Kalat, Zhob Mastung and in KPK at Dera Ismail Khan, Swat etc.
Khawaja Shaikh
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Khawaja (Urdu: خواجه شيخ‎) are prominent branch of Khawaja in South Asia.
Name[edit]
Khawaja or Khwaja (Arabic: خواجة khawājah, Persian: خواجه pronounced khâje) is a title used in Middle East, South Asia, and Central Asia. Khawaja is a Persian word . It means lord or master.

Khawaja is also used as family name in South Asia. In South Asia they are chisti and the Chishti Order is explained in detail below: A number of Chishti family members are now living in different parts of South Asia especially in northern Punjab province of Pakistan and also in Indian state of Gujarat. They often bear the surname "Khwaja" and it is claimed that they are Saiyed.
Marriage customs[edit]
Khawaja people usually marry within their own social affiliation that is "Saiyed or Khawaja". They marry regardless of status wealth or class discrimination. Depending on circumstances a group (clan) may be as small as few hundred families and as large as few thousand families. For example, in the Bhat clan's definition, their clan system is to be an entire group having very few sub-groups, whereas Khawajas are branched into a dozen or two sub-groups. For the Bhat clan (a Kashmiri clan) a group, by and large, usually shares an ancestral village in Kashmir as a reference point. Marriage into a family other than Khawaja family and between first cousins was discouraged in the past. Marriages to men outside the social group, i.e. the Khawaja clan (e.g. marrying outside such as Muslim Punjabi families), is now welcomed and accepted by a few Khawaja families, although some community elders may still discourage it. Although most of the departed Group of families who are out of the Family clan system (Baradari) are not following the antique family traditions.

People using the name Khawaja Sheikh[edit]
Significant figures with the name, or using the title Khawaja in South Asia include:

• Khawaja Moinuddin Chishty, also known as Khwaja Gharib Nawaz was a Sunni Muslim and is the most famous Sufi saint of the Chishti Order of South Asia. He was born in 536 A.H./1141 CE, in Sajistan, a famous city in Khorasan province (other accounts say Isfahan) in Persia. He is also known as "Sultan-e-Hind." Descendants of Sufi saints also use this as a pronominal, He was born in a sayed family of Iran.
• Fariduddin Ganjshakar Khawaja Farid (Punjabi/Saraiki: خواجہ فرید)he was a great Sufi his shrine is located in the city of Pakpattan, otherwise Pākpattan Sharīf.
• Khwaja Nizamuddin
• Khwaja Qutbuddin Bakhtiar Kaki(born 1173-died 1235) was a renowned Muslim Sufi mystic, saint and scholar of the Chishti Order from Delhi, India.
• Khwaja Jalaluddin Surkh-Posh Bukhari was a prominent "Suhrawardiyya" Sufi saint and missionary. Bukhari was called Surkh-posh ("Red-clad") on account of the red mantle he often wore.
• Khwaja Shamsuddin Azeemi
• Abu Yusuf Bin Saamaan,
• Maudood Chishti,
• Khwaja Wali Kirani
• Baha-ud-Din Naqshband Bukhari
• Khawaja Amar Saleem

Khatris[edit]
When Khatri people from the western districts of the Punjab like Sargodha, Jhang, Jehlum, Chakwal, Faisalabad accepted Islam called themselves Khawaja and adopted Shaikh as title. They are thus called Khawaja Sheikh. Some of them have also adopted Mian as title. In recent years traders from a small town of Chiniot, in the Chiniot District, became prominent due to their contribution in the industries of Pakistan. These traders are known as Chiniotis or Chinioti Shaikhs. The famous trading family of Sahgals, Sahgal Khatris of Chakwal, are known simply as Punjabi Shaikh instead of Khawaja Shaikh. They use Mian as title. In Punjabi language Khoja is a distorted form of Khawaja.
The first censuses of the Punjab were conducted by Denzil Ibbetson and Edward Maclagan in 1883 and 1892. According to their reports, the Khawajas of Bhera in Shahpur, Sargodha District were converted from Khatris, and those from Jhang were said to be converted from Arora. At Chiniot in Jhang District, Majority of the Khawajas are Khatris, while some are Arora. They reported the following sections (gotras) of Khatris from Chiniot:

Adal, Behrara Maggun (or Maghoon), Sahgal, Wihara, Talwar, Puri, Topra.

The sections of Khawajas from Bhera were reported as follows:

Vohra, Sahgal, Duggal, Nanda, Magun, Mehndru, Motali. These are all Khatri sections.

The sections of Khawajas from Pindi Bhattian were reported as follows: Sahgal and Wadhaun. These are all Khatri sections. In Raiwind district Lahore Shaikh families use their surnames which are actually Arora surnames, they have Arora ancestory.

 

[Mentee]

I read somewhere on the web that butts and Bhatts are not the same. The frist ancestor of the but clan migrated from kandahar and settled in kashmir. However as per a close friend, who happens to be a kashmiri, the buts are usually considered low in status by other Kashmiris and are called hato.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

I read somewhere on the web that butts and Bhatts are not the same. The frist ancestor of the but clan migrated from kandahar and settled in kashmir. However as per a close friend, who happens to be a kashmiri, the buts are usually considered low in status by other Kashmiris and are called hato.

Re:Butt & Bhaat[edit]
The use of surname Butt in pakistani punjab actually is quite complex and is beyond the understanding of indians. The Butt is not seen just as surname in pakistan punjab, but it has become a collective self-identification of kashmiri muslim immigrants to pakistani punjab somewhere in the 19th century, even though these kashmiri muslim immirants were of diverse origin and have had various surnames like Butt, Dar, lone, mir, wani etc., but for some reason the kashmiri surname Butt got so much popularity in pakistani Punjab that it was used by local punjabis as a collective identity of kashmiri muslim immigrants in punjab. Most of the people using this surname Butt in pakistani punjab do so to identify their kashmiri ancestory, but off course there would be hundreds of thousands of those for whom Butt was also their actual suname but for the others it has been adopted as a synonym for their kashmiri identity. Presently in Pakistan Butt = Kashmiri ancestory, it is just like Khan = Pashtun ancestory. A main name is Daniyaal Butt. Daniyaal Butt is a common name = A man that has sharp features, tall, handsome and very light skinned. That is why there are kashmiri Butts in pakistan who are snow white and have sharp features just like afghans and pashtuns and then there are those using surname Butt who are very dark. In general Kashmiri Butts (or simply kashmiri immigrants) in Gujranwala, Gujrat , Wazirabad , Sialkot are mostly fair skinned and have sharp features, tall in height and are in most cases either rural farmers or urban business men. Rural kashmiris of Gujranwala, Gujrat, Wazirabad , Sialkot seem to be descentdants of those rural kashmiri immigrants who opted to live in villages because their ancestors back in kashmir were also villagers and do agriculture and are mostly sharp featured have light skin and are tall.

On the other hand Lahori Kashmiri Butts seem to be quite impure and a lot of times do not have sharp features and light skin , which is typical of rural kashmiris Butts of Gujranwala, Wazirabad and Gujrat. Thus it seems like Kashmiri Butts of lahore in many cases have absorbed non-kashmiri Blood from locals, as it is plausible since there were people in Lahore before the arrival of kashmiri Butts with surname like Bhaat, as is apparent from famous Bhaati Gate in lahore who might have started calling themselves Butt to mix with original kashmiri Butts, . End of the story

So all indian dravidians you should not think that Butt is some kind of caste name resembling to ugly dark skinned indians with surname Bhatt or whatever. ( Muhammad Usman Butt, an original rural kashmiri from Wazirabad Gujranwala Pakistan) dated 05-02-2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.105.224.142 (talk • contribs)
misconception regarding Kashmiri Butt[edit]
Butts are basically Kashmiri Pandits who’s migrated from Kashmir. I am Kashmiri Butt living in Lahore, Punjab, Pakistan. My grand fathers are Kashmiri Pandits. They were two Kashmiri Pandit brothers and migrate at the time of partition of India and Pakistan. One migrates to India and one migrates to Lahore and later practicing Islam. It’s true that surname Butt in Punjab Pakistan actually self-identification of Kashmiri Muslim immigrants to Punjab Pakistan, either they are Kashmiri Pandits or not, which is wrong. It is just due to so much popularity of the surname Butt in Punjab Pakistan.
There is also misconception in local Punjabis they use Butt surname as a collective identity of Kashmiri Muslim immigrants in Punjab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baitulilmschool (talk • contribs) 10:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Reply[edit]
This is not history of butt family.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.13.106.115 (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

You are absolutely right, the surname Butt in Upper Pakistani Punjab has become just a synonym for someone whose ancestors have migrated from Kashmir (Kashir) valley. Eventhough in its essence Butt is a distortion of Bhat and back in kashmir if your surname is Butt/Bhat you are surely a kashmiri Pandit descendant. I just see a lot of my kashmiri relatives adopting surname Butt over their original kashmiri surname like Dar, Lone etc. It is true that Butt, Dar, Lone etc. do have more or less common origin back in kashmir, but you must keep one thing in mind that this has mostly been done by local punjabis that they wrongly used Butt for almost all kashmiris and started saying oh you all have similar skin tone and features so do not mind.

I suppose people back in kashmir would be surprised that how come there are so many kashmiri Butt in punjab whereas other kashmiri surnames like Dar, Lone, Wani, Mir etc are quite few in number, so I want to inform all of them that use of suname Butt among kashmiris in Punjab is quite loose , and over the generations many kashmiris in punjab have lost their original surnames in favor of surname Butt. It is right or wrong, but the thing is that for kashmiris like Butt, Dar, Lone etc. Butt has become more or less a collective-identity over the generations here in upper Punjab Pakistan.

(Muhammad Usman Butt, Wazirabad Gujranwala Pakistan) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.105.224.142 (talk) 12:06, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

 

[Mentee]

Re:Butt & Bhaat[edit]
The use of surname Butt in pakistani punjab actually is quite complex and is beyond the understanding of indians. The Butt is not seen just as surname in pakistan punjab, but it has become a collective self-identification of kashmiri muslim immigrants to pakistani punjab somewhere in the 19th century, even though these kashmiri muslim immirants were of diverse origin and have had various surnames like Butt, Dar, lone, mir, wani etc., but for some reason the kashmiri surname Butt got so much popularity in pakistani Punjab that it was used by local punjabis as a collective identity of kashmiri muslim immigrants in punjab. Most of the people using this surname Butt in pakistani punjab do so to identify their kashmiri ancestory, but off course there would be hundreds of thousands of those for whom Butt was also their actual suname but for the others it has been adopted as a synonym for their kashmiri identity. Presently in Pakistan Butt = Kashmiri ancestory, it is just like Khan = Pashtun ancestory. A main name is Daniyaal Butt. Daniyaal Butt is a common name = A man that has sharp features, tall, handsome and very light skinned. That is why there are kashmiri Butts in pakistan who are snow white and have sharp features just like afghans and pashtuns and then there are those using surname Butt who are very dark. In general Kashmiri Butts (or simply kashmiri immigrants) in Gujranwala, Gujrat , Wazirabad , Sialkot are mostly fair skinned and have sharp features, tall in height and are in most cases either rural farmers or urban business men. Rural kashmiris of Gujranwala, Gujrat, Wazirabad , Sialkot seem to be descentdants of those rural kashmiri immigrants who opted to live in villages because their ancestors back in kashmir were also villagers and do agriculture and are mostly sharp featured have light skin and are tall.

On the other hand Lahori Kashmiri Butts seem to be quite impure and a lot of times do not have sharp features and light skin , which is typical of rural kashmiris Butts of Gujranwala, Wazirabad and Gujrat. Thus it seems like Kashmiri Butts of lahore in many cases have absorbed non-kashmiri Blood from locals, as it is plausible since there were people in Lahore before the arrival of kashmiri Butts with surname like Bhaat, as is apparent from famous Bhaati Gate in lahore who might have started calling themselves Butt to mix with original kashmiri Butts, . End of the story

So all indian dravidians you should not think that Butt is some kind of caste name resembling to ugly dark skinned indians with surname Bhatt or whatever. ( Muhammad Usman Butt, an original rural kashmiri from Wazirabad Gujranwala Pakistan) dated 05-02-2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.105.224.142 (talk • contribs)
misconception regarding Kashmiri Butt[edit]
Butts are basically Kashmiri Pandits who’s migrated from Kashmir. I am Kashmiri Butt living in Lahore, Punjab, Pakistan. My grand fathers are Kashmiri Pandits. They were two Kashmiri Pandit brothers and migrate at the time of partition of India and Pakistan. One migrates to India and one migrates to Lahore and later practicing Islam. It’s true that surname Butt in Punjab Pakistan actually self-identification of Kashmiri Muslim immigrants to Punjab Pakistan, either they are Kashmiri Pandits or not, which is wrong. It is just due to so much popularity of the surname Butt in Punjab Pakistan.
There is also misconception in local Punjabis they use Butt surname as a collective identity of Kashmiri Muslim immigrants in Punjab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baitulilmschool (talk • contribs) 10:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Reply[edit]
This is not history of butt family.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.13.106.115 (talk) 22:58, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

You are absolutely right, the surname Butt in Upper Pakistani Punjab has become just a synonym for someone whose ancestors have migrated from Kashmir (Kashir) valley. Eventhough in its essence Butt is a distortion of Bhat and back in kashmir if your surname is Butt/Bhat you are surely a kashmiri Pandit descendant. I just see a lot of my kashmiri relatives adopting surname Butt over their original kashmiri surname like Dar, Lone etc. It is true that Butt, Dar, Lone etc. do have more or less common origin back in kashmir, but you must keep one thing in mind that this has mostly been done by local punjabis that they wrongly used Butt for almost all kashmiris and started saying oh you all have similar skin tone and features so do not mind.

I suppose people back in kashmir would be surprised that how come there are so many kashmiri Butt in punjab whereas other kashmiri surnames like Dar, Lone, Wani, Mir etc are quite few in number, so I want to inform all of them that use of suname Butt among kashmiris in Punjab is quite loose , and over the generations many kashmiris in punjab have lost their original surnames in favor of surname Butt. It is right or wrong, but the thing is that for kashmiris like Butt, Dar, Lone etc. Butt has become more or less a collective-identity over the generations here in upper Punjab Pakistan.

(Muhammad Usman Butt, Wazirabad Gujranwala Pakistan) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.105.224.142 (talk) 12:06, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

My friend was quite adamant about his claims, his father has visited the ancestral hometown in iok many times.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Hey everybody, I got some questions about my heritage.

I'm of Pakistani descent and my family have Kashmiri ancestry, our forefathers migrated from Kashmir (around Sringar) to rural North Punjab near Sialkot & Gujranwala and later my grandparents branched out to other cities across Pakistan. We belong to the Butt clan but also use Khawaja as a our last name or title, now the thing is I'm confused about whether Khawajas and Butts are the same clan or we're 2 different clans.

From what I've read, most Kashmiris settled in Punjab adopted 'Butt' as their lastname as a collective identifier of their Kashmiri heritage even if they didn't actually belong to the Butt clan. Pretty much all people with the last name Butt also use Khawaja as a last name. All the men in my family get refered to as 'Butt saabs" in Pakistan however my father says we're actually Khawajas and Butt was just a collective name.

Is there a difference between the two clans? Did they descend from two different groups or castes in Kashmir? All I know is that my Great Great-Grandfathers and their fathers were rice sellers in Kashmir before settling across the near the Punjab-Jammu border and getting involved in business, so what clan or caste might we be? It is quite amazing how my family and ancestors manage to branch out across Pakistan and the world and get an education, now we have nothing to do with farming or agriculture though I do have some extended relatives left in Upper Punjab who haven't changed at all.

If there are any Butts/Khawajas on here, what do you know about the clan?

I turkey and central Asia. They call and pronounce khawaja as hawaja or hoja.
Hoja in their societies they call to elders. The women call their husbands hoja
The people call their teachers hoja.

 

[Intsar Ahmad]

Hey everybody, I got some questions about my heritage.

I'm of Pakistani descent and my family have Kashmiri ancestry, our forefathers migrated from Kashmir (around Sringar) to rural North Punjab near Sialkot & Gujranwala and later my grandparents branched out to other cities across Pakistan. We belong to the Butt clan but also use Khawaja as a our last name or title, now the thing is I'm confused about whether Khawajas and Butts are the same clan or we're 2 different clans.

From what I've read, most Kashmiris settled in Punjab adopted 'Butt' as their lastname as a collective identifier of their Kashmiri heritage even if they didn't actually belong to the Butt clan. Pretty much all people with the last name Butt also use Khawaja as a last name. All the men in my family get refered to as 'Butt saabs" in Pakistan however my father says we're actually Khawajas and Butt was just a collective name.

Is there a difference between the two clans? Did they descend from two different groups or castes in Kashmir? All I know is that my Great Great-Grandfathers and their fathers were rice sellers in Kashmir before settling across the near the Punjab-Jammu border and getting involved in business, so what clan or caste might we be? It is quite amazing how my family and ancestors manage to branch out across Pakistan and the world and get an education, now we have nothing to do with farming or agriculture though I do have some extended relatives left in Upper Punjab who haven't changed at all.

If there are any Butts/Khawajas on here, what do you know about the clan?

Khawajas/Sheikh belong to Khatri or Baniya castes which change themselves after conversion. On the other hands butts are descended from Brahman clan Bhat.

 

[Abuubkar]

I am Khawaja. Mir from mother side.
My ancestors were from Bijbehara (near Sirinagar) then moved to Jamke Cheema (near Sialkot) then Lahore.
Came here to learn about my origin and find someone from same place. Learned many things thanks to all.