Quality of life in U.S. in freefall, China's rising

[beijingwalker]

Tourist experiences the Cost of living and local price in Xinjiang's capital city Urumqi , 0.7$ for a bowl of milk tea with free naan bread , multiple different kinds of naans, cheese flavor, rose flavor, onion flavor... and they are all you can eat... it's like 0.7$ of buffet.

 

[Mista]

False as China adjust its poverty line routinely. The current figure is $2.30 per day.

Well, 'fixed' as in it measures a certain level standard of living, adjusted for inflation every year. It's possible to grow out of the defined 'poverty', until the poverty line is raised again in real terms, like in 2008 and 2010 in China.

I quote from China's National Bureau of Statistics on how they define poverty:

Basic food needs include 1 catty of rice or flour, 1 catty of vegetables, 1 tael of meat or 1 egg per person per day to provide 2,100 calories and about 60 grams of protein per day for maintaining a healthy human body; non-food needs Including necessary food, clothing and housing expenses, as well as necessary education, health, transportation and communication expenses. Due to changes in the price level, the same standard needs to be adjusted annually in different years to ensure that the standard of living it represents remains unchanged.

According to the price level of the corresponding year, the current poverty standard is 2,300 yuan per person per year in 2010, 2,536 yuan in 2011, 2,625 yuan in 2012, 2,736 yuan in 2013, 2,800 yuan in 2014, 2,855 yuan in 2015, In 2016, it was 2,952 yuan, in 2017, it was 2,952 yuan, in 2018, it was 2,995 yuan, and in 2019, it was 3,218 yuan. Although the values of the same standard are different in different years, they all represent the same standard of living and are comparable between years.

什么是贫困标准和贫困发生率 - 国家统计局

www.stats.gov.cn

Meanwhile it's impossible to grow out of 'relative poverty', because it's defined as a percentage of median income. Even if every single working person doubles their income overnight, there will still be the same number of people in 'relative poverty' because the distribution of income remains the same.

 

[beijingwalker]

Because behind every foreigner is a mighty China.

Chinese students can also eat for free, what I mean is this policy shouldn't extend to foreign students

Xinjiang school free meal section

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

There are many Pakistanis studying in China. I would love to visit China also one day as a tourist.

I would love to see the Forbidden Palace or the Great Wall of China.

 

[beijingwalker]

A lot of Chinese people understand that foreigners are favored, which is unfair to the locals, but they can't help but complain, because the Chinese government is a support for foreigners.

True in the past, but now is changing, especially in recent a couple of years. this is the reason why many foreigners complain that China was no longer as nice as before and many have to leave cause the strict employment restrictions for foreigners now.

 

[beijingwalker]

There are many Pakistanis studying in China. I would love to visit China also one day as a tourist.

I would love to see the Forbidden Palace or the Great Wall of China.

I don't know what he is talking about, it seems that he chooses a college in Qiqihaer to study, I don't know why he chooses to study there, Qiqihaer is an unknown medium size in China's rusty belt region, so called China's Siberia, I don't even know that place has a college, don't know why he chooses to study there, maybe in the video he explained, but I don't understand.

 

[MeFishToo]

Yes. Cost of living is very different in different countries. But I'm not sure how you got your figure.

As of 2018, Denmark had a poverty rate of around 0.30%, which was a 0.1% increase from the previous year. Those living with fewer than $5.50 U.S. dollars per day are counted within the poverty figures. This is one of the lowest poverty rates in the world, around 10% less than the United State's poverty rate in 2020.

Cash benefit in Denmark for an adult (+30 years) is $1.800 per month. That is ~ $60 per day. Cash benefit is your last resort. Garanteed public pension is ~ $2.100 per month. Mostly students and large families relying on cash benefits from a single adult lives under the defined poverty line - but it is definitely not $5.5 per day. I dont know where you found that figure, but it could be a figure representing what a person has left for food when everything else is paid.

The defined poverty line in Denmark is 50% below median income. Last number Ive seen was $1.600 per month ~ $50 per day.

Btw, the income is before taxes.

Edit, I think I discovered the reason you define poverty rate in Denmark at $5.5. But it is not the official poverty rate.

 

[letsrock]

It's meaningless to talk about poverty rate without talking about the poverty line.

View attachment 930924

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Switzerland's poverty rate is >3x of Vietnam's, but that doesn't mean Switzerland is poorer than Vietnam.

Developed countries usually adopt the concept of relative poverty, while developing countries usually adopt the concept of absolute poverty.

In many developed countries, the poverty line is defined as a percentage (eg; 60%) of the median income. Which means, the higher the median income, the higher the poverty line. As such, there will ALWAYS be a percentage of population under the poverty line based on income distribution (unless you are a communist country with everyone making the same level of income). You can never grow out of poverty because the goalpost shifts every year as you grow.

US poverty line:
View attachment 930922

Meanwhile in many developing countries, the poverty line is usually defined as the minimum resources required to secure basic living necessities. Eg; in China the poverty line is fixed at RMB4000 per year. The line is fixed, and it's possible to grow out of poverty.

View attachment 930921

As you can see, the poverty line can be very different between countries. A family of four in the US which makes less than USD30K pa is considered under the poverty line. That's USD2.5k or around RMB17.5K per month.


View attachment 930927

No cities in mainland China have their median household income above USD30K pa, not even the first-tier cities.

We can adjust for price differences with PPP ratio; China's PPP to nominal ratio is around 0.6.
USD30K in the US is worth ~USD18K in China. Then yeah, some cities like Beijing or Shanghai have median household income above the poverty rate in the US. However these cities are more expensive than the national average, so the PPP ratio should be higher and lesser adjustment is needed, but whatever.

poverty is poverty. You cant chase numbers. There is a reason that US put that figure - it adjusts for living costs. Also you are again assuming poverty in us to be predominantly about family of four. Its is mostly individuals or so.

 

[Mista]

Edit, I think I discovered the reason you define poverty rate in Denmark at $5.5. But it is not the official poverty rate.

View attachment 931078
View attachment 931079

He got it from this website, word for word. The author also did not differentiate the definition of poverty line in the US/Denmark lol. Apples and oranges.

Poverty in Denmark - 3 Facts You Need to Know - The Borgen Project

Poverty in Denmark is at one of the lowest rates in the world. Its important to understand why and learn from their example.

borgenproject.org

Cash benefit in Denmark for an adult (+30 years) is $1.800 per month. That is ~ $60 per day. Cash benefit is your last resort. Garanteed public pension is ~ $2.100 per month. Mostly students and large families relying on cash benefits from a single adult lives under the defined poverty line - but it is definitely not $5.5 per day. I dont know where you found that figure, but it could be a figure representing what a person has left for food when everything else is paid.

The defined poverty line in Denmark is 50% below median income. Last number Ive seen was $1.600 per month ~ $50 per day.

Btw, the income is before taxes.

Interesting. Singapore and Denmark has similar population size and GDP per capita, but very different socioeconomic policies. There is heavier emphasis on equality in Denmark's fiscal policy, while the emphasis is more on 'getting the best bang for the buck' in Singapore.

 

[MeFishToo]

He got it from this website, word for word. The author also did not differentiate the definition of poverty line in the US/Denmark lol. Apples and oranges.

Poverty in Denmark - 3 Facts You Need to Know - The Borgen Project

Poverty in Denmark is at one of the lowest rates in the world. Its important to understand why and learn from their example.

borgenproject.org

Interesting. Singapore and Denmark has similar population size and GDP per capita, but very different socioeconomic policies. There is heavier emphasis on equality in Denmark's fiscal policy, while the emphasis is more on 'getting the best bang for the buck' in Singapore.

I think income taxes and corporate taxes are much higher in Denmark compared to Singapore. But taxes are generally accepted, and it is not really a matter of discussion during elections. Makes it alot easier to create an equal society. I believe free education all the way to university level plus public support (student grant for 5 years), free healthcare and a somewhat reasonable public pension is the reason most danes are content. Everybody has a chance to succeed, and if not, you are not really in trouble.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Colleges offer free food for the students, but Why China's free school meal policy also benefits foreign students? they really should pay , they just eat too much.

My free school meals in China​

​

I do not know if the rules have changed but back in the 1980's colleges were required to give students who lived on campus breakfast/lunch/dinner meals. This was because technically the students were considered "under the direct care" of the colleges and thus that required them to be fed too. However calling it "free" is a bit of a stretch since it was included in your housing/boarding fee. But since it was all prepaid you could now grab as much food as you wanted and stack your food tray.

You can see an example of this in a famous scene from "Animal House" where John Belushi ridiculously stacks a food tray high with everything available since he has already prepaid for it through his housing fee.

There were no cashiers...you just walked in like an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Here is somebody going to a Las Vegas all-you-can-eat and recreating the scene.

 

[Chute]

I do not know if the rules have changed but back in the 1980's colleges were required to give students who lived on campus free breakfast/lunch/dinner meals. This was because technically the students were considered "under the direct care" of the colleges and thus that required them to be fed too.

You can see an example of this in a famous scene from "Animal House" where John Belushi ridiculously stacks a food tray high with everything available since he doesn't have to pay for it.

Of course belushi took advantage of it, I saw literal same kinda thing play out in my own cafeteria in uni (though people could report abusers of it if they wasted the food in the end - unlike Belushi who genuinely had the "stomach that walked" capacity lol).

No such thing as a free lunch pal, unless its genuine charity.

i.e they weren't free, just got included in the residence cost (if you opted for uni residence, you got standard 3 meal a day plan... nowadays you can opt out or adjust the level etc in more unis and colleges and save money if you want to spend time/effort yourself instead).

Residence costs arent cheap either nowadays damn, looking back I really wish a 24/7 meal plan just got included with the base level....but they were all extra stuff you had to add on top nowadays.

Junior and senior year (and then post grad), I moved out and rented house with some friends instead and saved lot on groceries....and became a pretty damn good cook myself all things considered.

Only thing of note the university student association rallied for and got at no extra cost was bus pass for all students year around....which again really only helped folks like us who lived off campus anyway.

@VCheng @_NOBODY_ @jhungary

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Of course belushi took advantage of it, I saw literal same kinda thing play out in my own cafeteria in uni (though people could report abusers of it if they wasted the food in the end - unlike Belushi who genuinely had the "stomach that walked" capacity lol).

No such thing as a free lunch pal, unless its genuine charity.

i.e they weren't free, just got included in the residence cost (if you opted for uni residence, you got standard 3 meal a day plan... nowadays you can opt out or adjust the level etc in more unis and colleges and save money if you want to spend time/effort yourself instead).

Residence costs arent cheap either nowadays damn, looking back I really wish a 24/7 meal plan just got included with the base level....but they were all extra stuff you had to add on top nowadays.

Junior and senior year (and then post grad), I moved out and rented house with some friends instead and saved lot on groceries....and became a pretty damn good cook myself all things considered.

Only thing of note the university student association rallied for and got at no extra cost was bus pass for all students year around....which again really only helped folks like us who lived off campus anyway.

@VCheng @_NOBODY_ @jhungary

Back then since the movie was popular there were signs saying to not waste food by needlessly stacking. But everybody had to try it at least once.

Actually I enjoyed mornings where i had multiple trays along with a long row of different drinks. You just kind of hang out, read your books, and pick at things. Can be better than the usual hanging out at the library for half the day.

 

[jhungary]

Of course belushi took advantage of it, I saw literal same kinda thing play out in my own cafeteria in uni (though people could report abusers of it if they wasted the food in the end - unlike Belushi who genuinely had the "stomach that walked" capacity lol).

No such thing as a free lunch pal, unless its genuine charity.

i.e they weren't free, just got included in the residence cost (if you opted for uni residence, you got standard 3 meal a day plan... nowadays you can opt out or adjust the level etc in more unis and colleges and save money if you want to spend time/effort yourself instead).

Residence costs arent cheap either nowadays damn, looking back I really wish a 24/7 meal plan just got included with the base level....but they were all extra stuff you had to add on top nowadays.

Junior and senior year (and then post grad), I moved out and rented house with some friends instead and saved lot on groceries....and became a pretty damn good cook myself all things considered.

Only thing of note the university student association rallied for and got at no extra cost was bus pass for all students year around....which again really only helped folks like us who lived off campus anyway.

@VCheng @_NOBODY_ @jhungary

I am not interested in replying to a thread where the OP deleted the old one and opened a new one because he lost an argument and try to reset it and at least try to show competence.

He opened this thread with this same article about a week ago and then he, of all people, ask people to deal with "facts" where I then reply to him by facts and statistic that US poverty line is for people with lowest standard of living, while Chinese poverty line is for people who barely living (hence no standard at all), and hospital bed, suicide rate and life expectance is not really a parameter for quality of live.

And now he deleted that thread and reopen a new one.

 

[beijingwalker]

I am not interested in replying to a thread where the OP deleted the old one and opened a new one because he lost an argument and try to reset it and at least try to show competence.

He opened this thread with this same article about a week ago and then he, of all people, ask people to deal with "facts" where I then reply to him by facts and statistic that US poverty line is for people with lowest standard of living, while Chinese poverty line is for people who barely living (hence no standard at all), and hospital bed, suicide rate and life expectance is not really a parameter for quality of live.

And now he deleted that thread and reopen a new one.

I deleted that one cause it's full of personal insults trash posts like this one, some posters just post personal attacks instead of discussing the topics in that thread.