Its you who need to read some basic books about pakistan movement. Heck on PF i noticed that you even dont know the text book material about Pakistan history.....lol muslim never win any election in NWFP.....jinnah dissolved khudai khidmatgar's provincial governament after independence stating no reason and enforced muslim league government, quite undemocratic step by our baba-e-qaum.
The text book material is actually rubbish. Quaid-e-Azam wanted a secular Pakistan and saying he wanted a land for Muslims where they would be treated fairly and saying he wanted a land where Islam ruled are two different things. He made this clear when he said Pakistan was not to be a theocracy to be ruled by mullahs... (speech in US: forgot date)
But that's a separate topic... don't pull a "Toramana 360" (a particularly venomous member and spreader of Anti-Pakistani rubbish on another forum) on me and try to change the topic to divert the discussion. You remind me of chickens on a farm in our ancestral lucknow (which should become Pakistan-Is Pakistan for me as the birthplace of the Muslim League). They would avoid, run and squawk the moment you chased them.
I will get the figures from Jaswant Singhs book. It shows a Muslim League Majority over Congress in Pakhtunkhwa. The dissolvation of the government sounds like rubbish to gratify yourself. That's your effort to obfuscate history.
You need to study more , sardar abdul qayyum khan was ethnic kashmiri not pashtun......
Luffy, I think you are on a secret mission to prove yourself both a racist and a fool and let your Afghan backers down. I must congratulate you if you really are so unsure of yourself that you wish to degrade yourself in this manner. When I was on pashtunforums NO ONE could argue with me. Check the thread "What Pakistani Pashtuns really mean when they say lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun."
I have facts and figures of how many Pashtuns are employed where, when and in which position in Pakistan combined with a knowledge of history which I have studied like a bookworm.
Sardar Abdul Qayyum Khan spoke Pashto better than perhaps even your father who I doubt has any trace of Pashtun blood in him, judging from the comment you made on my ancestry about which I still expect an apology.
He called himself a Pashtun by all means. You can confirm this from people like Taj Mohammed. Though this is unconfirmed by a good author there is consensus that his opposition to the Khudai Khidmatgars came because an ancestral cousin of terrorists from Afghanistan who probably spend their time on your pathetic little "tolerant" forum abused Jinnah and Pakistan in front of him... which made him disillusioned with Bacha Khan whom he had supported almost half his life.
Do note
he was called lion of the frontier for a reason.
If he hadn't been against the Khudai Khidmatgars no one would have even cared to dig so deep in his history to know he had Kashmiri ancestry. But Luffy is not a name of a fool but a concept that can exist in anyone's mind, hence it was needed to turn him into a member of an enemy race or a non-pashtun
He lived in Pakhtunkhwa... when I said ethnicity was fluid in that post to reply to your rants you didn't even read, did you? Part of it reposted:
* To make the statement... (i already said it), that ethnicity changes with time (Is fluid). For example look at our family from the comment I posted (mothers side)... from medina, once ethnically medinites or Ansars (tribe). Spread out all over like a flood. RTR commented on that thread that Abdullah Ansari is a Tajik. He did not get the point as Luffy refused to post the whole thing in order to say I have no love for the Pashtun race.
Anyway so Abdullah Ansari went to Afghanistan and became a Tajik. Similarly (this is disputed by chauvinists) Pir Roshan settled in Kaniguram and became a 200% Pashtun.
And I add that then these people (Ansaris) moved to India... some became Lucknowites, others muhajirs (should have integrated and called themselves only Pakistanis), me Pashtun...
But of course Wikipedia is edited by people like you, who as I said know more history than others but like to post things selectively, so this would never be mentioned, where else can an Afghan like you get his knowledge from when he doesn't have any already? But since you are going by wikipedia did you notice this:
He led the Muslim League to a landslide victory in the controversial 1951 elections, despite opposition from the Khudai Khidmatgar movement and opposition from Federally backed fellow Muslim league opponents like Yusuf Khattak.
So guess Pashtuns helped Muslim League beat the Khudai Khidmatgars not only in the 4^ elections but also 51 elections. Tough to swallow, huh? Well, don’t. Instead you would do well to swallow the fact that Abdul Rehman Khan was a traitor to Pakistani Pashtuns and threw them away like garbage to the British. Jinnah fought for us and gave us an identity after Afghans abandoned lar Pashtuns to brutality of the British.
Also ever wonder how he could be called Kashmiri. Did he know Kashmiri language? A big fat NO and he KNEW PASHTO! But who am I talking to?
Luffy who called Imran Khan, a man with a Pashtun Niazi father and Pashtun Burki mother (which makes him 100% Pashtun) a Punjabi just because he lived with jatts and Punjabi groups. Afghans (Nation) have taught you well... maybe after 50,000 years they may actually start accepting you as one of them. By the time Afghanistan won't be on the map though with all 4 races killing each other.
Pashtuns arts, culture, history, movies and music have been saved by Pakistan and Pakistani Pashtuns otherwise your Soviet children would be looking in an glass museum and in a massive glass enclosure staring at Luffy Khan Marwat, the lover of Abdur Rahman Khan a traitor to lar Pashtuns, lol.
Don’t believe it but for me as a Pashtun he is bigger than Bacha Khan. He was involved in Babra-Sharif but what else would someone do when he saw racists like the ones I saw on that forum? A member soldat openly called for murder of every "Pashtun traitor" and Punjabi and everyone backed him.
You need to study more and read now and never carefully. Chaudry rehmat ali and iqbal never suggested any union between afghanistan and future pakistan. Afghanistan was independent country like iran, pakistan movement was all about liberation of hindi muslims.
For the past 2 years I have been writing and reading so much about Pashtuns that my head is full of it so that I can argue with misled people like you. Sad that people like you would wish to insult me rather than learn something or at least appreciate my work for Pashtuns and ethnic unity. But I know being a patriot is a thankless job.
Qouted from the book, a history of the Pakistan Movement by Umair Sadiq:
Chaudhry Rehmat Ali didn't just want a Pakistan larger than the one that was formed, his "A" of Pakistan stood for Afghania, meaning land of the Pakhtuns. Upon the creation of a moth-eaten Pakistan he became a dissident belligerently advocating the merger of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
^^^^
Point of note from above...
3 of 4 people in now or never movement were Pashtuns. But their blood and sacrifice doesn't count. Only Bacha Khan counts for you.
Also a must read:
Chaudhry Rehmat Ali
Also check out a book more easily available:
Author: Humayun Gauhar and Aslam Khattak. Book: A Pathan Odyssey Puts light on efforts to form a union. (Personally I think it was Daud’s fault-he was worried about smaller number of Pashtuns being dominated by Pakistan)
But did rehman baba joined mughal ranks? plz dont bring sufi person like him into this debate, sufis dont do jihad or play with swords or do politics....
My gwal of Afghanistan, my hero from the third-grade Talibani mujra produced by bearded jungle people of Afghanistan, you cannot beat me at history...
Perhaps you didn't hear about Pir Roshan... ring-ring? P
IR ROSHAN, the SUFI POET who FOUGHT AGAINST AKBAR AND HIS DIN-E-ILAHI, remember? The guy I suggested could be one of us on account of my ansari background from my mothers side upon which you showed your pathetic racist face and insulted my ancestry? Remember? For a quick history... Pir Roshan's entire movement was a Sufi movement based on the principles of egalitarianism, advocating equality for women
and he fought Mughals.
He was a Sufi too but he picked up a sword.
Another was the Pir Baba of Buner whose Yousufzai Lashkar's were the cause of Pir Roshan's death.
So tell me now? Is Rehman Baba not a Pashtun like Lalak Jan (You said he was from Gilgit without knowing his background. Yes according to my knowledge he was a Pathan from Gilgit-wikipedia being a tool for Anti-Pakistani elements like yourself can provide incorrect information.
)
Of course you hate other races so this example might not count at all but our friend @
A.Rafay can confirm that Sindh's sufi's also fought the British and supported Pakistan. Pir Pagara is the spiritual leader of the Hur (meaning, not slave) movement which has continually battled the British. Lol. Sufi’s have been involved in some of the greatest struggles in history.
Depanted like Admin Khan who once said Afghan and Pashtun are one and I asked then if you are so committed to Pashtun unity what about other races who hate Pashtuns with a vengeance like the fiery fires of Arche’s breath. When he said Hazara, uzbek and tajik can also be Afghan then I said thats hypocricy and the same logic applies to Pashtuns for Pakistan they can be Pakistani 2... he ran away like a coward.
There are two senses of the word. National sense and ethnic sense. You cannot make the two one which arrogant people like you often do because kissing Afghanistan's *** is so much easier that way.
Poor Luffy.... this time he has really been check-mated. Whats wrong... you clearly believe I am a wannabe Pashtun or according to your post a low-caste Indic? This low caste indic has bested you in a debate about Pashtun history and culture. Go in the bathroom and cry for a while and consider for once, just once... what you are missing in your hatred and the bond between Sindhi, Punjabi, Baloch, Pashtun which makes us Pakistani.
I am learning your language, became like you to make a statement of unity, to assure you of support... and think what an Afghanistan supported animal you must be not to grasp that hand.
In another language spoken in Pakistan (not urdu or pashto) I wrote:
"Sindhis, Pashtuns, Punjabis, Balochs (Muhajir not included because of my refusal to call it an ethnic group)
We are the petals of a flower... our unity makes us bright and radiant... what can I say of the misfortune of one who hasn't understood that together is our future... that if one of us falters... this flower withers and dies.
By the way I must say, your coward admin was pretty smart. Perhaps that forum never faced a threat like mine or like Afghanis_hehe ever in its pathetic past so it was necessary to lock me out of my account and this is basically how the forum maintains its advantage and disproportionate numbers of Afghans (from Afghanistan) compared to Pakistanis despite massive difference in population. All the abuse of “Jinnah worshipping” defence.pk nd where did they promote themselves with a large banner ad linking to their forum? Guess?
On defence.pk which got them half their members anyway proving very typical Afghan (Nation) ungratefulness.
But I will ensure you do not get kicked out, no matter what anyone says so I can expose you as a racist again and again and again until you keep coming for more and hope against all hope that you will develop a brain to look critically at the rubbish drilled into your head by Afghans (from Afghanistan)
Oh, so Rehman Baba didn't join the Mughal army but then what about the dozens of Pashtun generals and soldiers that made the bulk of Mughal armies? Point???
I agree with you my pashtun nation was never short of opportunists. it was daulat khan lodhi who invited babur to overthrow his nephew ibrahim lodhi. Half of babur army consisted of zamand and khesgi pashtuns, it was salim khan zamand the badbakht who beheaded ibrahim lodhi.........but do you know what happened to family of this traitor daulat khan lodhi?....his family was given position in mughal court but were always viewed with suspicion , for precaution jahnagir killed his grandson khan jahan lodhi , who was member of his court, for no reason then he slaughtered his entire lodhi family and mughal soldiers raped their women.
I expected this. Instead of commenting on the point that you are using history to draw historical parallels to the current situation in order to claim support or sympathy for the pathetic Farsi-speaking regime in Kabul that threw you to the British and did not once (properly) try to help you in any one of your 30+ rebellion attempts you started ranting about the Mughals.
I won't waste my time because my concern wasn't to defend the Mughals but say that both the Mughals and Lodhis are Pakistanis (part of our history). Also there are some accounts that state Babur's informers claimed Daulat Khan's family wished to murder him and take the Mughal throne. #Selectivehistory. I would have no problem with you holding these beliefs Luffy even though you ignore the other side, but you are using it to create divisions in my country.
Also Ahmed Shah Abdali who is twenty times more Pakistani than Afghan (Nation) because he was born in Multan and 70-80% Pashtuns are Pakistani, murdered Sikhs like cattle and threw their bodies in their holy pool, even killed their saints. So ancient nations committed atrocities. Did it change the fact that there were Pashtuns in Mughal armies and many Pashtuns actively supported the Mughals? Not a bit. Does it change the fact that Ahmed Shah Abdali is my favorite Pashtun hero and that also despite my support for secularism and that I don’t see an attack on a holy place positively?
My issue is only what you advocate Luffy. People judge history differently, we revere Jinnah (often as a major religious leader) but I cannot even mention the words Afghans (from Afghanistan) mentioned for him. You are supporting the same thing against our leader.
You have expressed your displeasure with Qayyum Khan and Abdul Rab Nishtar, these staunch Muslim Leaguers... these were opportunists too? Why not say it? Muslim League was an opportunist? Was Jinnah one? Be bold.
While mohamands, orakzais, bajauris, yousafzais, wazirs, afridis etc were always fighting against british invaders, khattaks and niazis joined ranked of the enemies against their own pashtuns.
So the Niazi's and Khattaks (from which tribe Khushal Khan Khattak was from and claimed Pashtuns and Afghans are one) are traitors to the "Pashtun cause" which is to destroy Pakistan and form loy (Farsi-speaking, Pakistan-hating) Afghanistan? ... Abdul Qayyum Khan can't be Pashtun even though he called himself Pashtun, Imran Khan has lived in a neighbourhood surrounded by Punjabis and is therefore "anti-pakhtun" but of course there is no chance, whatsoever on this God’s green earth that Luffy is a bigot? No sir, no! Da impossible da. #rapeofhistory
At least you admit these Pashtuns existed. Admin Khan actually from Afghanistan himself kept advocating all Pashtuns in Pakistan were oppressed and wanted a Pashtunistan. Lets wait for the response from @
TaimiKhan and @
Pashtun.
I dont agree with you, jinnah told us to discard our ethnic identities along with histories associated with them for sake of one pakistani identity....a pakistani pashtun should only be concerned with sir syed Ahmed khan, sir agha khan, ali brothers, rehmat ali , iqbal , iaqat ali khan etc......unfortunately i dont agree with jinnah and i wont discard my 4000 years old pashtun/afghan identity.....yesterday we were with durrani empire, british empire, today we are with pakistan tomorrow we might be in some new country, so it is foolish to discard your langauge , culture and ethnic identity for identity of hindi muslims of ganga jamna.
Thats because he foresaw idiots like you being born who would defile their forefathers graves! Why don't you talk about Sadhar Marwat... his exact speech was against provincialism... he told us to abandon provincialism but did he even once say we should abandon our ethnicity. His message wasn’t for a person like me but it was for you... he knew the various cultures of Pakistan made the country rich which was why he allowed names based on ethnic basis for universities.
And read the post if you have a brain. I said I would help promote Pashtun culture, even offered a grant publicly while my financial situation is the shittiest right now.
It doesnt matter if we have twice the number of pashtuns than afghanistan, in a century a two paksitani pashtuns would definately become like irfan pathan if they remained pakistanis.....let me add an interesting information, if you check district gazetteer of attock 1901, its pashtuns were proper pashto speakers....in just 100 years they lost pashto because of cultural and linguistic pressure of punjabi due to their geographical location in punjab......
Shifting blame and self-victimization without which an Afghanistan lover cannot operate.
This is barely the fault of Punjab. I had at least 70-100 Punjabi organization members i have known very well. Only 5-10 know Punjabi. I have around 40 Pashtuns I know personally within this movement and almost each one knows Pashto. Who is losing his language?
But my organizations friends, friends aunt’s brother is not a good source as that pathetic Afghan Admin Khan would state it. So here is some information:
Punjabi isn't even taught in schools in Pakistan. Pashto is in the majority of schools in Pakhtunkhwa. You should receive more knowledge and stop believing rubbish from Afghanistan. A person famous for launching tirades against those sitting outside Pakhtunkhwa should have a good knowledge and know the local environment... not to say you come at 5 am at night to post on this forum, local time.
Urdu is replacing Pashto and I have called on Pashtuns to save their language in the last post. Question is what about Afghanistan where Farsi is spoken. Why kiss their *** when they have no link to Pashtuns.
you are such a drama queen.
Truth hurts, Luffy.
You need to understand that patriotic pakistani pashtuns like abu zulfiqar, hyperion, taimi khan etc dont need to be knowledgeable about pashtuns. They are institutionalized pashtuns, who considered themselves only and only pakistani and consider pashtun-centric talks as dangerous for solidarity and unity of pakistani nation.....discussion about pashtuns is actually disgusting for them, they are like those guys you see in peshawer who paints their faces green, wear green and make noises on their bikes on 14th august.
It is better than giving rise to ethnic tensions. Personally I do not believe in the ideal of ethnicity and would rather just refer to myself as Pakistani but what about the rest of the 80%. Join us @
Hyperion @Abu Zulfiqar... lets dump this Pashtunistan issue in the Kabul river at Peshawar and let it travel upstream right to Kabul.
Only thing these people’s not getting involved is doing is making people like you bolder.
Dont know about culture but you cant surpass afghanistan in terms of history as long as pakistani deny its hindic history and tie its history with afghan, turk and arab muslim invaders.
After that speech about culture you still do not understand. How unfortunate you are? I just told you why the hell Pashtun history is our (Pakistan's) history.
In one way you are right. Arab and Turk history is not exactly ours but it is on account of turk and arab ancestry among some people that some people count among their heroes Muhammed Bin Qasim. I would also count Raja Dahir as he was from Sindh in respect for Sindhi and Sindhi Hindu history, regardless of the fact that he was Hindu. I want my nation united. For that I will respect every race and religion. I am proud that Islam came here and Qasim will surely be admired as a Muslim hero... unity is not about just ethnicity... it applies to religions as well.
Dont you see, for super pakistanis like astonish khan abdul rab nishter or karnal sher khan are only pakistanis, they dont care about ethnic identity of these personalities...you cant expect them to have more knowledge about pashtuns than me because they are not interested pashtun stuff.
Astanosh respects Bacha Khan. He said it in an earlier post... but respecting a person is far different from supporting his ideology.
Thanks for admitting. And that my friend gives fanatics like you their advantage... but you see there are people who will challenge the rubbish you spew. You might know more history than most Pashtuns, given. But your interest is basically in the Khudai Khidmatgars, their ancestors and people holding ethno-fascist views.
In other words you do not know as much history as a patriotic Pakistan-lovin’ Jinnah-worshippin’ (according to you wannabe) Pashtun like me... so watch out Luffy.
. Anyone can monitor that forum and the comments posted there for a few days and they will know what it is. They insult a person like Jinnah secure in the knowledge that Pakistani Pashtuns won’t return the favour. Real scumbags if you ask me... doing a war with a knife at a civilians throat.
