Quaid e Azam did NOT have a British Passport

[Armstrong]

Umm, actually you do ... or perhaps it just searches me out.
I remember vividly how many times in Lahore I was called an "Indian" when during casual conversation I spoke about my family ancestry(which ironically ends up in Afghanistan and beyond).
And these are not casual jibes.. these are differentiating examples of trying to discriminate the so-called "non-sons of soil".

Where you may not see it is within cities as frequently such as Rawalpindi or Islamabad... it happens more within areas and from people who are politically aligned.
For eg.. Rawalpindi has a large population of migrants from Dehli and surrounding areas..
Hence, people generally have mingled and accepted well into the fabric there.

Lahore's more cosmopolitan areas have also accepted migrants from these cities... but when you go into the more politically aligned class.. the discrimination appears.
Its the same in Urdu-Speaking communities where other ethnicites have settled..
The more politically aligned people.. the more the discriminating attitude.
It does exist,




Moreover...
The Quaid was a popularly accepted leader who transcended communities.
Altaf Hussian cant get out of the areas of Karachi.

I'm an ethnic Kashmiri & not a son-of-the-soil if the Muhajir tag is anything to go by & I have traveled much of Punjab ! I can't recall a single instance in my 22 years of existence, my Dad's 50 or so before that or my Grandpa's 95 before that when any of us was ever made to be felt like the 'other' as if we were a different crop of people than the natives. Heck not even my verbal spats have ever included a racist slur against me despite being everything else.

So I really don't know where you're coming from here for I've never ever experienced 'differentiation' never mind 'discrimination' here in Punjab whether in my stays in smaller cities like (Gujranwala) or my hometown Lahore. Not even my maternal Grandfather, a Punjabi born in Bijnaur who speaks Urdu with a Bijnauri's accent or his sister-in-law from Pataudi, ever experienced anything to that end !

Pataaa nahin tuuu kaiseee logoooon see milaa haiii ?

 

[SQ8]

The biggest issue which all of the people here ignore.. IS NOT.. that who had more part to play in Pakistan, or that who wronged who first and more..
But who falls prey more to political twisting of issues into ethnic colors.

for eg.
There are two ways of reporting things.

1.
I am living in a flat which was found for me by a gentleman I had only met.. to be referred as Ch Sb.
Now Ch Sb it turn out, is a total fraud... he has been dodging bills and IoU all over the UK and has defrauded many people but alas I was not aware of this and fell into his sweet talk thanks to my own fault.
I have now chosen to avoid him because he is an uncouth character and has a bad repute.

2. I found this place after being fooled by sm Chaudry from Gujranwala who is a total fraud and tried to fool me too. He's been insulting Pakistanis everywhere by borrowing money and running.. Typical PUnjabi character.. They ruin our image abroad.

Method 1.. is stating the same thing, but without the mirch masala of bigotry and hate.
Method 2... is how people that end up being the Altaf Hussains or other representatives of political parties represent it. it is more popular with people because they cannot just accept frustrations to be let go without finding more avenues to blame.
And as we need scapegoats.. we listen to them.. and listen to them well.

 

[SQ8]

I'm an ethnic Kashmiri & not a son-of-the-soil if the Muhajir tag is anything to go by & I have traveled much of Punjab ! I can't recall a single instance in my 22 years of existence, my Dad's 50 or so before that or my Grandpa's 95 before that when any of us was ever made to be felt like the 'other' as if we were a different crop of people than the natives. Heck not even my verbal spats have ever included a racist slur against me despite being everything else.

So I really don't know where you're coming from here for I've never ever experienced 'differentiation' never mind 'discrimination' here in Punjab whether in my stays in smaller cities like (Gujranwala) or my hometown Lahore. Not even my maternal Grandfather, a Punjabi born in Bijnaur who speaks Urdu with a Bijnauri's accent or his sister-in-law from Pataudi, ever experienced anything to that end !

Pataaa nahin tuuu kaiseee logoooon see milaa haiii ?

Sort of same here actually..

But as to why I end up seeing such people.. is perhaps because I tend to stand out..and perhaps because i just have bad luck of meeting politically aligned people.
for eg.. I stayed for two years in Peshawar.. never learnt Pushto ..
I have lived ten years in total in Punjab.. never got the Urdu accent here.. nor much of Punjabi..
as n eg
I did however, find myself shocked in Peshawar during my class when my Islamayat teacher in undergrad's compulsory subject.. after delivering a lecture about Muslim brotherhood. and then Praising the Quaid made the statement "Kya khabees Qaum hai Mohajir, Kutton ko wapus India pheko"

The same happened while shopping in a famous store recently.. in Rawalpindi
I was talking to my mother while putting the groceries down.. when some gentleman asks me.. "are you from India".. .to which I replied irksomely I was from karachi..
to which the gentleman insisted that "NO, but your family is Indian originally".. Somebody tell that idiot that in that way all of Pakistan is "Indian" originally.

Hence, attitudes like these exist all over the country..
Karachi is the melting pot of Pakistan.. literally everyone is there..
hence you are more likely to see such attitudes there than anywhere else.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Umm, actually you do ... or perhaps it just searches me out.
I remember vividly how many times in Lahore I was called an "Indian" when during casual conversation I spoke about my family ancestry(which ironically ends up in Afghanistan and beyond).
And these are not casual jibes.. these are differentiating examples of trying to discriminate the so-called "non-sons of soil".

It is unfortunate that you were made to feel different. Happens to most of us, just because we live in a multi-ethnic country. Such things happen in India too. Dhruv, an Indian friend of mine from Delhi told me that calling a South Indian 'Madrasi' is a generic insult. So is 'Punjabi', when coming from a South Indian.

Minor things do not matter. I can brush them off with a smile or a shrug. It is the incomprehensibility of blind discrimination, seemingly without rationale or background, that hurts.

 

[haviZsultan]

Well aren't some of you outright bloody liars??? I would have been the first voice against MQM & AH had AH said anything about the existence of Pakistan!

Altaf Hussain calls creation of Pakistan the Biggest Mistake - YouTube

And literally anyone who still does not consider the partition to be a cruel joke on Pakistan after the 1971 debacle is a real fool. All those who still consider the partition to be correct after losing half the country are, well they are beyond any case worth spending time upon.

Listen the hell up... we wouldn't have lost Pakistan if our families and our stupid urdu-speaking community had had the brains to rise up against Bhutto and Yahya Khan... instead we were cheering them on. You are part of the reason East Pakistan fell and you are yapping about a loss to this country as if somehow it was someone elses responsibility. You should be ashamed.

Listen up, I refuse to call myself a muhajir because of traitors to my motherland like you who have no belief whatsoever in Pakistan but I will not die a traitor to my forefathers and my family members killed by the Indian mobs-our grandfather who came to Pakistan with only the dua for Pakistan to succeed and our country to be the greatest one in the history of Pakistan. You MQM terrorists are traitors to this country and to my forefathers blood. Last time Karachite said something like this it was truly a test of my nerves and this time it is the same.

Think before you jump off a mountain top for terror-God Altaf Hussain. Lol. You want to know how 71 happened. That is how my friend. That is how but this time we will not let you do it.

And only in Pakistan can people still believe those lies, despite lack of a single shred of evidence because their bigoted minds cannot accept reality.

This is laughable. An MQM terrorist from my pathetic community which spends time abusing Pashtuns, Sindhis and Punjbabis is telling me who a bigot is. I will die for my Punjabi Sindhi and Baloch brothers. If me fighting their killers makes me a bigot then I am very proud of it. But what we teach our kids... thats what they are learning. No surprise here. @Oscar is right here. We have no unity... but we are the ones who have to build it.

If you had the ability to look at things objectively and critically then you would have found out that around 87% of all murders and target killings were of people not affiliated with the MQM so that is the most likely party to have murdered them.

The Mohajir identity was not coined by the urdu speaking Mohajirs, neither were the problems that rooted out of their loyalty and support for Fatima Jinnah (instead of Field Marshal Ayub Khan). I have posted many informative things from the sacrifices the migrants made to the freedom struggles where most of the residents of Punjab & Sindh had no participation and Khan of Kalat (ANP) etc. openly voted against Pakistan. Your outburst, whether you understand it or not, is actually against urdu speaking migrants, whom I consider more of a claimant then those who never lifted a finger for this freedom!!!

Regardless of who coined it the muhajir identity was and is adopted by this community. I have replied to the same rubbish to darkinsky. Fatima Jinnah was a national issue not remotely a muhajir issue. Stop turning it into one to claim you have been oppressed because as a Karachite I know exactly which community has been suffering abuse.

Rubbish. Khan of Kalat voted for the formation of Pakistan and even Quaid noted it-without it Balochistan would never have come over to us. Did you forget about the Hur movement, Shaikh Abdul Majeed Sindhi, Abdul Rab Nishtar, Mir Ahmed Yar Baloch? Of course you probably didn’t even know about half of them being the typical racist you are. How dare you say that other Pakistanis did nothing for Pakistan? That is an insult to all other ethnic groups in my country who are one of us. We are all leaves of one tree-if one throws vile acid on one he does so on all of us.

Also do you MQM terrorists ever use a novelty called a brain? Do you know who Chak Bamu is? He is from Indian Punjab. He moved to Pakistan. Now when someone moves to Pakistan who does he become? A muhajir as that term is supposed to apply to all muhajirs. So basically when you insult a Punjabi and his history you are insulting muhajirs themselves but such a simple fact may not lodge itself in the scum infested brain of someone as highly educated as you unlike the rest of the people who are supposed to accept you as their Gods.

I am seriously going to lose patience some day with people who claim partition was a mistake. It was absolutely true what Syed Jamaluddin said. He was indeed with Altaf and Altaf did want a partition of Sindh or the creation of Jinnahpur.

 

[SQ8]

It is unfortunate that you were made to feel different. Happens to most of us, just because we live in a multi-ethnic country. Such things happen in India too. Dhruv, an Indian friend of mine from Delhi told me that calling a South Indian 'Madrasi' is a generic insult. So is 'Punjabi', when coming from a South Indian.

Minor things do not matter. I can brush them off with a smile or a shrug. It is the incomprehensibility of blind discrimination, seemingly without rationale or background, that hurts.

Thats the whole point.. its ingrained within our mindsets now.

I mean think about it..
There are literally tons and tons of Pathan jokes circulated about on sms and here and there.
Stereotyping the community as simpleton idiots..
Dont you all think it bothers them at some point..

Kudos to many of them who actually accept this as part of their "impression" and end up laughing at them and forwarding the same.

The difference in India though.. is that they have a democracy that is representative of their people.. and not feudals who represent power centers and not necessarily majority of opinions or people.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Interestingly.. I was made "conscious" of my being an urdu-speaker first in Karachi by Sindhi Nationalists, then Pathan Nationalists.. and then finally MQM's own...I was discriminated against using this when I was in KP or Punjab.
So it really has nothing to do with where you are, just who you are exposed to.

And the growing fault lines will only make it worse.

How exactly you were made conscious of being mohajir in KPK? What were you doing in KPK and who made you feel like that, general public there?...
Frankely speaking i think its you who is so conscious of being mohajir. If you were in peshawer then let me tell you that most of people there speak pashto but would switch to urdu for you, urdu there is business langauge along with pashto. If you were wearing pants shirt, then many people especially young ones also wear it, so no way you may have felt strange there because of your dress. If you are dark-skinned, then many people of peshawer are dark , they dont notice skin and wont make comment on it. The only way i see it , is that you may have started defending altaf bhai and MQM infront of pashtuns in majlas and in response you have to hear some thing. Tell us the truth, you have made a claim, you owe us an explaination.

 

[haviZsultan]

Sort of same here actually..

But as to why I end up seeing such people.. is perhaps because I tend to stand out..and perhaps because i just have bad luck of meeting politically aligned people.
for eg.. I stayed for two years in Peshawar.. never learnt Pushto ..
I have lived ten years in total in Punjab.. never got the Urdu accent here.. nor much of Punjabi..
as n eg
I did however, find myself shocked in Peshawar during my class when my Islamayat teacher in undergrad's compulsory subject.. after delivering a lecture about Muslim brotherhood. and then Praising the Quaid made the statement "Kya khabees Qaum hai Mohajir, Kutton ko wapus India pheko"

The same happened while shopping in a famous store recently.. in Rawalpindi
I was talking to my mother while putting the groceries down.. when some gentleman asks me.. "are you from India".. .to which I replied irksomely I was from karachi..
to which the gentleman insisted that "NO, but your family is Indian originally".. Somebody tell that idiot that in that way all of Pakistan is "Indian" originally.

Hence, attitudes like these exist all over the country..
Karachi is the melting pot of Pakistan.. literally everyone is there..
hence you are more likely to see such attitudes there than anywhere else.

Oscar the question here is we never tried to understand them and we are too attached to the identity too, naa... someone call anything to Muhajir or even Pashtuns, my adopted identity it doesn’t affect me one bit. I defend Pashtuns though not on account of becoming one but because I have seen the very same biases to them you talk about in Karachi.

We weren’t here to become reactionaries or just build an empire for ourselves. Anyone can say they did this so we don’t like them or will defend our community... but few can reach out to them and hold their hand and say we are with you and we are all Pakistanis regardless

No one in this country can jump into their shoes and look at the situation from their eyes. Though I have never seen what you said I have indeed seen biases against Pashtuns in Karachi, things like “tu Pathan ka beta, pathan ban key rah. Hamaray tarah mat banay ki koshish kar” to a flower seller. And things like “Pathan hamari juti ki neechey hai”... so this is what happens in our own city Karachi. But when lets say the same thing is happening to us in another area of Pakistan we are getting pissed?
I think the point we stopped being a nation was when we stopped feeling for each other... and if you see my posts thats what I am trying to do in my defence of other ethnic groups.

Oscar if you think about it its all very silly the things we are taking offense at. What is Muhajir anyway? Why are we so keen to maintain this term. It means pilgrim, man. Which one of us looks like a pilgrim, we are settled in the top cities, we have a gdp per capita higher than anyone else and all we can look at is this non-existent belief of oppression. I don’t even take the term seriously-muhajir cannot even be an ethnic group by any definition for us to take it seriously-our real culture is lucknowi (in my case) and i can tell you its far different from that of a malabhari muslim. So how this collective muhajir label puts us in the same classification? Now surprise, surpise. Then what makes it impossible for a punjabi or someone else to come under that label. Its us who aren’t disengaged from ethnicity and if we start with ourselves we can make a very solid statement of ethnic unity. But someone has to get out of it... challenge these identities and say enough.

My family says some horrible things about Sindhis and Pashtuns... they don’t think about how another person would feel before claiming “Muhajir key saath kitna ghalat ho raha hai.” Anyone can focus on all this. But it is another thing to win people with respect. I will give you an example, something I typed in the other thread I have been very active in recently:

I will give you a simple example. I adopted Pashtun culture and ways and know rudimentary Pashto-but when speaking people can tell i am not Pashto speaker by birth. When I spoke Pashto to driver in Karachi some months ago... he looked at me totally surprised. He was shocked and goes like "talo pashto razi!!!" (You know Pashto!)... he knew how our families were and had been hearing abuse like "tum pathano key paas aqal toh hoti nahi hai" and things like "jahil insaan, gari roko, ismein car-bomb nahi hai jo tum jakay takra do kahim say"... this is basically how our khandaan behaves around non-muhajirs. When I spoke Pashto which was clearly weak I won his respect.

Aap toh bulkul hamaray tarah pathan hai, aap ney hamara dil jeet liya.... He said smiling. Now he always treats me with total reverence. If we show respect and goodwill to people they will respect us. Simple as that. In moments I became a Pashtun despite my comparitively pathetic Pashto but we don't have this kind of mentality. One day he comes by and gifts about 20-30 books on Pashto language and literature which must have cost him at least 1000-2000 rupees when he is earning about 12,000 monthly. I wanted to give him money but he refused. He promised me support for the Pakistan Nationalist party which unfortunately isn't in existence yet but is a personal dream. This is how you unite people. By being a racist you divide and create ill-will between communities and even on this thread you see it... one abusive comment to an ethnic group and you set off a war. Think how easy it is to do the same.

By challenging a number of people who have that kind of divisive mindset I sought to create an impression while conducting research for my paper. It was the best way to debate and my knowledge in this regard has expanded.

People misunderstand these beautiful people, these Pashtuns for years now and I have no clue how to stop it. All the bad jokes are on them... we associate them with negative influences like Naswar. Pretty sad and this is what I personally experienced, a Pashtun spending his 1/5th and 1/6th of his salary for me.

Never has anyone ever physically told me that I have no right to call myself Pashtun excluding the e-afghans and their backers who only seem to exist in the world of the internet. My point here is did we ever even try to build bridges with the local communities or did we always feel different and wanted to maintain a separate identity?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...cussion-muhajir-identity-9.html#ixzz2Hn7BPPVR

We can very easily change things and beat this. Ethnicity is not a big thing. I don’t remember those moving to india from pak calling themselves yatrees or muhajirs like our families. We are insecure. I saw this which is why I adopted Pashtun identity, not really because of the weak unrpoven links to them but thought this identity is quite an imposed one by ourselves and helping in dividing us from our people-we dont want to give it up. My folks actually look down at Pashtuns. We have to escape the victim mentality and accept that we played a role in exacerbating tensions. We do it and I am telling you others may follow. We continue acting like reactionaries. Nothing changes.

The key to eliminating the ethnic issue is right in our hands.

 

[Mav3rick]

Lets me put it this way...you are one of those Karahchite Bhagoras from 1990's anti-MQM operation now struggling in Austrlia and taking to keyboard for your frustration venting!

Actually, let me put it the correct way, I am one of the Karachiites that calls a spade, a spade, and one who lived in Karachi throughout the operation, saw the dirty deeds of the military operation on false pretext of Jinnahpur and then saw Musharraf taking over. I am the one who saw everything before leaving for Australia for higher education and returning to Pakistan to serve the country where I serve the federal Government today.

 

[Mav3rick]

If this identity (as you call it) was not coined by Urdu speaking Mohajirs, then why are you hell-bent on using it? You know how offensive this is to others who came here, having fought, walked, bled, sickened on the way.

I would like to know if any of your ancestors had to fight off Sikhs? Mine did and kicked some serious a**.

I would like to know how and when your ancestors got to Pakistan. Mine had to move to camps where wells were poisoned. They had to walk with Sikhs stalking all around and bloody Dogra soldiers doing nothing. All the people in the caravan attempted mass suicide but were discovered by an English officer who sent Baloch Regiment jawans to escort them. My father, my grandfather, my uncles walked on foot to Toba Tek Singh from Jallandhar. Yes the same Toba, which voted over-whelmingly for Fatima Jinnah. This is my story. What is yours?

My Grand father left his home to mobilize support for Muslim League so that our extended Biradari would vote en-masse for Muslim League and Pakistan - yes he was a worker in Pakistan Movement. What did yours do?

One of my elderly relatives has a CERTIFICATE hanging in his bedroom acknowledging his contribution to the Pakistan movement, given by GOP. Let us hear from you if you have anything like this in your family. Anything?

How dare you belittle the sacrifice and achievement of others? See this is EXACTLY the type of arrogance for which MQM's so-called Mohajirs are known all around the country. You think you are the only ones who sacrificed? You think you are the only ones worthy of this country? You think that you are so high up the ladder of morality that all should bow to your greatness? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I HATE ALTAF HUSSAIN. He has taken seedlings of misconception and nurtured them into jungles of prejudice. If Sindhis had not been part of our struggle, why in Allah's name would they be in Pakistan and be right there to welcome the refugees, whose descendants now look down upon them?

Why is there this talk of carving up Sindh with its precious resources taken over by the people, some of whom look down upon Sindhis? The same Sindhis who welcomed your ancestors in the name of Islam. Is there justice in this Pakistan of ours? Dare anyone remind you that Karachi belongs to the whole of Pakistan courtesy of Sindhis to begin with? You think your ancestors gave up more. Ask Sindhis what they got from Pakistan...

I am sorry that I misunderstood you. My family faced the same dilemma at the time of migration. We too have lost family members in the cause. Not just family, my family never even claimed properties when they got here despite the fact that my mothers father had 4 cars when people could not afford a bicycle and my fathers father was a senior collector under the British Government. I can understand the sacrifices my friend but today nobody remembers the sacrifices made by our families. Today, whether you call yourself a mohajir or not, you are one to the rest of the country. I am speaking from my own personal experience. You most likely have not had to face the true side of our Sindhi & Punjabi brothers. I, being a part of the federal government, am all too aware of the reality. The sick reality, I must add.

The Sindh that you speak of may not have gotten anything from the partition except freedom. However, freedom was the most important, most prized and sought after treasure at that time least you or they forget. And Pakistan belongs to all of us alike, the talk of carving up Sindh is for the better of the country and for everyone as half of Sindh (interior) wants to live under a different system then the other half. Must I further say that the illiterates want to live under the outdated colonial era Commissioner system while the rest of us, the educated ones, want to live in true democracy under LG system.

Reasoning skills go only so far with pre-conceived opinions obstructing the way. It is just convenient to argue against common-sense that AH has any right to tell legislators how to vote and what to legislate. Did you see all the senior MQM leaders with pencils and pads, because this clown and fool was giving them a lecture of treachery? What do you suppose was going on in their minds as they were hearing his .... well I like to compare his utterings to the desperate baying of a wayward Buffalo calf looking for its mother. Really, no joke - That is how he sounds. Honest.

The MQM legislators have to be citizens of Pakistan and Pakistan only. Yet the big Don who tells them how to vote and what to legislate is sitting in England with a British passport and an oath to obey & honor the queen and to accept the superiority of Church of England in spiritual matters. This same Don gets to dictate what goes on in the commercial capital of Pakistan. And people like you somehow feel compelled to obey him and to defend his nonsense.

I know how AH sounds and I agree that today he is the biggest drawback that MQM has to face because AH has changed from the man he was during the 80's and 90's. Sometimes I do not understand what's happened to him, to the actual movement that was very much needed when MQM was formed. And it is not possible to defend him today. But his speech was turned from a defensive speech on part of AH to justify his position to accusations on Quaid-e-Azam which was incorrect, hence my participation in the thread.

And if you are willing to look past his style, his clothing, his acts etc. and focus purely on his words that appear in the following dailies, you will realize that he does actually make a lot of sense most of the time.

He did not change. He just showed his true colors. He is a coward, just as he always was. He is a manipulator, just as he always was. He is just as much a liar as he always has been. Nothing different, just clearer.

We do not agree with your point of view on this.

 

[Mav3rick]

You consider partition to be a joke, good for you. Keep this poison to yourself and your community. 1971 debacle was not a simple affair. And let me remind you that the beginnings of it had something to do with demeanor and dealings of ICS officers from West Pakistan. Most of these ICS officers were from Urdu-speaking regions of UP/CP and they felt so superior to their fellow Pakistanis that our Bengali brothers found no difference between them and the departed British. Bengalis hated them and called them Punjabis. To Bengalis, all those who came from West Pakistan were 'Punjabis'.

Ghulam Muhammad, the despicable Governor General of Pakistan was just such an ICS officer who played havoc with governments while he ruled Pakistan from Karachi. Guess his background?

Iskandar Mirza, the breaker of Pakistan's 1956 constitution (made with untiring efforts of Chaudhry Muhammad Ali - a distant relative of mine) was an ethnic Bengali with Urdu-speaking background. He paved the way for Ayub Khan's Martial Law.

So you see the so-called Muhajir community has its fair share in our collective misfortunes. I am not denying the sacrifice and contribution of our Urdu-speaking brothers. I am just pointing out inconvenient facts for the benefit of those who need to take a look in the mirror so that they can see how they look to others.

Do not go all high and holy and pontiff-like. 1971 happened because people in West Pakistan were not equal to the vision of Pakistan. Had they considered Bengalis brothers in Islam and brothers in nation, we would not have seen what we saw leading up to 1971. Bengalis did not have significantly more problems with Ayub Khan than us in West Pakistan. It was discrimination they felt. One can feel this same bloody discrimination when one hears Altaf moan and groan about how HIS people have been wronged. Only so-called Mohajirs feel self-righteous about his bayings. Do they pause to think how it all sounds to the rest of us Pakistanis? What gives them the right to look down upon Pashtuns, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Punjabis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. What gives them the right to look down upon Sindhis, just as they had looked down upon Bengalis. And they live in Sindh for crying out loud. Oh the hypocrisy...

Again, you have very conveniently put all the blame on Urdu speaking officials. The issues were many and out of scope of this discussion. However the more important things is that the issues would not have arisen had this side been a larger chunk instead of 2 Pakistans on either side of a much larger and hateful India!

If you read up on the partition and ploy of British including that of Mount Batten, you will find that the proposal that was presented to Quaid-e-Azam was expected to be rejected by Quaid-e-Azam and how the British were surprised when Quaid accepted the proposal of Pakistan on either side of India. Quaid had his reasons, the British had theirs. However, if you read up on Mount Batten's diaries (recently declassified I believe) you will know how the game was played and how Quaid was setup with partition in such a way. Not only that, the unresolved issue of Kashmir which haunts us to this day.....an issue over which we have fought 3 wars with India and lost so much (Despite kicking India's behind).

The partition was a big blunder indeed, and today we would still be united had the Partition produced 1 Pakistan and 1 India. Even today can anyone dream of breaking away Baluchistan from us? Had Baluchistan been physically away from Pakistan it would have been broken away a long long time ago, hopefully you will understand my point.

 

[Mav3rick]

I never said that only my ancestors sacrificed. I just called his bluff when he trashed people of other ethnicities. I would rather hear what he has to say about this.

I would like to hear how you can support your contention that Punjabis engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing. I would also like to know how Sindhis usurped your rights (yes I know about the quota thing).

I am not a racist. People who think that they are better than others and look down upon others are racists. I have no such problems. I just called somebody's bluff. You have a problem with that? Why do you not have a problem with someone telling that Punjabis did not make sacrifices? Why do you not have a problem with someone who is perpetuating the stereotype of so-called Muhajirs? Why? Why can I not defend people of my ethnic origin when some one dumps his prejudice upon us?

Buffalo soldier my a##.

The only place in whole of Pakistan I was made conscious of being a Punjabi was in Karachi. My only mistake was being part of Punjab's team in National games. You have the guts to call me xenophobic? What are you yourself?

You are aware of the quota system and how that has destroyed the country by sacrificing true potential for equality despite inequality of efforts? For example, education standards in interior Sindh and the reason for Sindhis to join the Government is quite clear. Sindhis take on the Government jobs for power, extortion, bribes and to claim salaries while not attending the office. The Mohajir community on the other hand would rather work in the private sector away from bribery to earn an honest livelihood. I am facing bureaucratic hurdles that you wouldn't imagine because what I do can put a mark on many big fish.

 

[Isaths]

This is why I "prefer" Imran Khan at least he doesn't divide us(Pakistanies) into punjabi, urdu speaking, sindhi, pashtun, baloch and etc. He used the term Pakistanies as a whole. while almost all other parties loved to use their ethnic cards according to their needs without realising the destruction and hate they spread among Pakistanies by their this cheap political stunt.

M I wrong didn't PPP has and deliberately used sindh card, MQM mohajir card, ANP pashtun card, and etc. Here credit goed to PMLN who never used the term "Punjabi" but, whenever they came into power their focus has always been punjab not the whole Pakistan which has been their draw back. I dont think they can vastly improve their image of "punjabi Leaders" as zardari's use of Takht-e-Punjab has made their position very controversial.
I don't know if they are more smart or we are fool enough to cut each others throats without taking a single minute to think.

May Allah bless OUR Pakistan

 

[Mav3rick]

Altaf Hussain calls creation of Pakistan the Biggest Mistake - YouTube

You claimed that AH burned the national flag, please post proof of that or consider yourself a LIAR!

Listen the hell up... we wouldn't have lost Pakistan if our families and our stupid urdu-speaking community had had the brains to rise up against Bhutto and Yahya Khan... instead we were cheering them on. You are part of the reason East Pakistan fell and you are yapping about a loss to this country as if somehow it was someone elses responsibility. You should be ashamed.

You wanted a minority to rise up to the sea of people that Bhutto had gathered before '71? What would have that achieved? Were our families not first hand victims/witnesses for the support of our community to Fatima Jinnah? Did we need more of the abuse that was met out to our community as a punishment for supporting the sister of Quaid-e-Azam......who was betrayed by the country then and the same people have the guts to claim that they stand for Quaid-e-Azam when their families treacherously sold out Quaid's sister?? Why fall for the same lies again and again??

Listen up, I refuse to call myself a muhajir because of traitors to my motherland like you who have no belief whatsoever in Pakistan but I will not die a traitor to my forefathers and my family members killed by the Indian mobs-our grandfather who came to Pakistan with only the dua for Pakistan to succeed and our country to be the greatest one in the history of Pakistan. You MQM terrorists are traitors to this country and to my forefathers blood. Last time Karachite said something like this it was truly a test of my nerves and this time it is the same.

I do not understand why you consider me a traitor, all I can say is that in 2001/02 when India had amassed almost a million troops at our border and war drums were beating I returned from abroad to ensure that I was present in the country before air travel was restricted in the even of a war, to ensure that I could participate and play my role in the defense of my country.

But matters that we speak of today are different, I speak for unison and that can only happen when every community is given their freedom and their rights. Be it Karachiites, Baloch, Hazaras or Siraikis. If that means breaking up the provinces in to smaller provinces then so be it. All that I would say is that provinces should not be divided on ethnic lines or on sectarian lines but administrative lines and that we should eliminate the ethnic/sectarian divide.

Think before you jump off a mountain top for terror-God Altaf Hussain. Lol. You want to know how 71 happened. That is how my friend. That is how but this time we will not let you do it.

So AH and MQM were behind '71 tragedy?

This is laughable. An MQM terrorist from my pathetic community which spends time abusing Pashtuns, Sindhis and Punjbabis is telling me who a bigot is. I will die for my Punjabi Sindhi and Baloch brothers. If me fighting their killers makes me a bigot then I am very proud of it. But what we teach our kids... thats what they are learning. No surprise here. @Oscar is right here. We have no unity... but we are the ones who have to build it.

I do not bash any ethnicity. If I say something which is a fact then it cannot be considered abuse. I think you are either most likely confusing me with someone else or that you have misunderstood something I posted.

If you had the ability to look at things objectively and critically then you would have found out that around 87% of all murders and target killings were of people not affiliated with the MQM so that is the most likely party to have murdered them.

I do not know where you came up with the figure of 87% but lets analyse your assumptions:

1) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not affiliated with MQM.
2) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not supporters of MQM
3) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi were not from the urdu speaking community.
4) 87% that have been murdered in Karachi must have been murdered by MQM because of points 1,2 & 3 above.

Now I am thinking if you had the ability to not copy and paste the words about thinking objectively and critically then you would not have posted what you did. I mean you just want to blame MQM even though you have no tangible proof or even suspicions that would arise from benefits of such terrorism that MQM would gain except a bad name and abuse in general which I do not believe MQM want any more.

Regardless of who coined it the muhajir identity was and is adopted by this community. I have replied to the same rubbish to darkinsky. Fatima Jinnah was a national issue not remotely a muhajir issue. Stop turning it into one to claim you have been oppressed because as a Karachite I know exactly which community has been suffering abuse.

Can you explain why the so called supporters of Quaid-e-Azam denounced Fatima Jinnah, the mother of the nation, in favor of Ayub Khan?? Can you furthermore explain why the country stood silent spectator when Ayub's son wreaked havoc of his revenge on Karachiites for support of Fatima Jinnah?

Rubbish. Khan of Kalat voted for the formation of Pakistan and even Quaid noted it-without it Balochistan would never have come over to us. Did you forget about the Hur movement, Shaikh Abdul Majeed Sindhi, Abdul Rab Nishtar, Mir Ahmed Yar Baloch? Of course you probably didn’t even know about half of them being the typical racist you are. How dare you say that other Pakistanis did nothing for Pakistan? That is an insult to all other ethnic groups in my country who are one of us. We are all leaves of one tree-if one throws vile acid on one he does so on all of us.

Go and read the history of Khan of Kalat and that of Badshah Khan and many others. You have picked names where as I have picked leaders for this debate. Hur Movement? Hurs did not fight for the overall freedom struggle, they fought for their own personal selves, for their leader, for their own tribes! You must not compare struggles motivated by self interests to the overall and larger movement aimed at the creation of a country for the whole Muslim nation.

Also do you MQM terrorists ever use a novelty called a brain? Do you know who Chak Bamu is? He is from Indian Punjab. He moved to Pakistan. Now when someone moves to Pakistan who does he become? A muhajir as that term is supposed to apply to all muhajirs. So basically when you insult a Punjabi and his history you are insulting muhajirs themselves but such a simple fact may not lodge itself in the scum infested brain of someone as highly educated as you unlike the rest of the people who are supposed to accept you as their Gods.

Since I did not know that Chak Bamu is from Indian Punjab I must not be using my brain? And also because I am posting facts, I must be an MQM members and by extension a terrorist too. And now that I know Chak Bamu is actually a Punjabi from Indian side, I know that he was accepted in the Punjabi community and so were Punjabi Kashmiri. Nobody cared about the urdu speaking community and the initial welcome fast diminished as realization dawned that the highly elite in education would challenge the Sindhi claim to Government jobs and so on.

I am seriously going to lose patience some day with people who claim partition was a mistake. It was absolutely true what Syed Jamaluddin said. He was indeed with Altaf and Altaf did want a partition of Sindh or the creation of Jinnahpur.

Whatever dude....

 

[MastanKhan]

so any guy born in 1980 in pakistan with pakistani passport was automatically dual british national

so practically my father who is a pakistan is automatically dual national

this doesnt make an ounce of sense that a guy born before 1980 in pakistan was automatically considered british national

in this way altaf also didnt take any oath because he was born before 1983

Plz read again---pakistan was not a colony in 1980---.

Secondly---for all practical purposes---Jinnah was an EXPAT----if it was not for that expat---muslims---had not a single person capable to lead them---.