قہر برپا کیا تم نے نبیﷺکا نام لے کر

[YeBeWarned]

Punishment was given to several people in life of RASOOL SAW.

read Post #58

 

[Zarvan]

Quran talks about Fighting the non-believers and hypocrites on many occasions, but Blasphemy is not one issue where Allah directly has ordered to kill anyone , Those who were given death sentence in times of Prophet, what we forget that Prophet has the Authority of a Ruler, Judge and messenger of Allah, his decision is Allah's Decisions but anyone from the society without any Authority can not provoke Mob to slaughter anyone who do blasphemy,

I am not supporting MOB justice in fact I suggest life imprisonment for mob if it's proven Mashal did commited Blasphemy for taking law in there own hands and death if it is proven he was innocent. What I am saying state needs to enforce Blasphemy law with full might and also punish those who bring false accusation

 

[YeBeWarned]

Right! I was talking about about blasphemy punishment.

in Jahilon ko kon samjhe bro ? they will kill a helpless man but they did nothing when Tahir Ashrafi wa caught red handed drunk sitting in Clifton ... Thodi si jo pee li hai , Chori tu nai kia hai hahahaha

I am not supporting MOB justice in fact I suggest life imprisonment for mob if it's proven Mashal did commited Blasphemy for taking law in there own hands and death if it is proven he was innocent. What I am saying state needs to enforce Blasphemy law with full might and also punish those who bring false accusation

The law is been misused and will remain to do so, this trend is not coming down anytime soon .. and for the Prophet whom he punished for Blasphemy, He was Ruler , Judge and Messenger of Allah, he has the Authority to make the decision .. a tuchha imam sitting in Gali koche ki Masjid is not even close to dust of prophet when it comes to Authority ..

 

[Zarvan]

in Jahilon ko kon samjhe bro ? they will kill a helpless man but they did nothing when Tahir Ashrafi wa caught red handed drunk sitting in Clifton ... Thodi si jo pee li hai , Chori tu nai kia hai hahahaha



The law is been misused and will remain to do so, this trend is not coming down anytime soon .. and for the Prophet whom he punished for Blasphemy, He was Ruler , Judge and Messenger of Allah, he has the Authority to make the decision .. a tuchha imam sitting in Gali koche ki Masjid is not even close to dust of prophet when it comes to Authority ..

State needs to punish those who commit Blasphemy the moment this starts more people will report to Police instead of taking law in there own hand than punish those who bring false accusation or do mob justice this will also reduce these cases finally we need to increase Islamic education starting from schools current Islam is not good enough not even close.

 

[Musafir117]

It's totally Islamic law and I know Hadith rejectors hate this law because there issue was always with RASOOL SAW and his status in Islam but this is law is totally Islamic and is there and will remain there no power on earth can take it from our constitution


Punishment was given to several people in life of RASOOL SAW.

There are no any Hadees rejectors and you also aware in Ahadees we have Za'eef and Qavi Ahadees and if we have doubt we take guidance from Holly Quran. And the Ahadees you post before here as well clearly contradict by Life ( sunnah ) of Mohammad SAW and teaching of Quran.

 

[Zarvan]

There are no any Hadees rejectors and you also aware in Ahadees we have Za'eef and Qavi Ahadees and if we have doubt we take guidance from Holly Quran. And the Ahadees you post before here as well clearly contradict by Life ( sunnah ) of Mohammad SAW and teaching of Quran.

No they don't contradict from either Quran nor Hadees.

 

[Divergent]

Can someone please translate the first page content in a nutshell?

 

[Musafir117]

No they don't contradict from either Quran nor Hadees.

Oh man ok, we have dozen of Ahadees in which Mohammad SAW forgive his enemies who not only abused Him but insulted Quran ( I post few example above somewhere) from Taif to Fateh Makkkah we only seen His Reham and forgiveness SO why you trying to mix another personality in Him? ( Nazoubillah)

 

[M. Sarmad]

It's totally Islamic law and I know Hadith rejectors hate this law because there issue was always with RASOOL SAW and his status in Islam but this is law is totally Islamic and is there and will remain there no power on earth can take it from our constitution

There is not a single verse in the Holy Qur'an that prescribes any worldly punishment (let alone capital punishment) for blasphemy .. There is no Sahih Hadith that tells us to kill all blasphemers.

Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws (295-C) mandates the death penalty for Blasphemy. However, there never has been a consensus among great Ulama of the past that death penalty is mandatory for blasphemers. 295-C is in line with the Hanbali school of jurisprudence only, followed by a small minority (almost 2%) of Muslims worldwide (mainly in Saudi Arabia) and is in contradiction with the position held by all other schools of Islamic jurisprudence (i.e Hanafi, Shaafi and even Maliki). Hanafi and Shafi'i schools of jurisprudence accept the repentance of blasphemers.

This Wahhabi inspired Colonial Law (i.e 295-C) will be reformed soon, and it will be brought inline with Quranic injunctions. Your kind won't be able to do anything about it. Just wait and see.


And don't act like a hypocrite. Don't give lame justifications as you tried to give in your previous posts (that reforming this law will increase mobbing incidents) .. Just openly say that you are a proponent of political Islam aka Wahhabism, and believe in violent implementation of your twisted interpretation of Islam. Allah has cursed liars and hypocrites.

 

[Zarvan]

Oh man ok, we have dozen of Ahadees in which Mohammad SAW forgive his enemies who not only abused Him but insulted Quran ( I post few example above somewhere) from Taif to Fateh Makkkah we only seen His Reham and forgiveness SO why you trying to mix another personality in Him? ( Nazoubillah)

He also fought 27 wars and 80 others he sent to fight I mean which were led by Sahabas. Mercy and tolerance have limits. For your information not every one was forgiven at Fattah Makkah RASOOL SAW ordered to kill 4 person one of them was killed when he was hiding behind cloth of Kaba and his crime was Blasphemy

There is not a single verse in the Holy Qur'an that prescribes any worldly punishment (let alone capital punishment) for blasphemy .. There is no Sahih Hadith that tells us to kill all blasphemers.

Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws (295-C) mandates the death penalty for Blasphemy. However, there never has been a consensus among great Ulama of the past that death penalty is mandatory for blasphemers. 295-C is in line with the Hanbali school of jurisprudence only, followed by a small minority (almost 2%) of Muslims worldwide (mainly in Saudi Arabia) and is in contradiction with the position held by all other schools of Islamic jurisprudence (i.e Hanafi, Shaafi and even Maliki). Hanafi and Shafi'i schools of jurisprudence accept the repentance of blasphemers.

This Wahhabi inspired Colonial Law(i.e 295-C) will be reformed soon, and it will be brought inline with Quranic injunctions. Your kind won't be able to do anything about it. Just wait and see.


And don't act like a hypocrite. Don't give lame justifications as you tried to give in your previous posts (that reforming this law will increase mobbing incidents) .. Just openly say that you are a proponent of political Islami and Wahhabism, and believe in violent implementation of your twisted interpretation of Islam. Allah has cursed liars and hypocrites.

Blasphemy is part of Quran and Sunnah it's not Wahabi thing it's agreed thing for past 1400 years. This punishment was given in life of RASOOL SAW on his orders in time of 4 Caliph and in past 1400 years this punishment has given. But always state has done it no rogue group was allowed to take law in there own hands.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article ‘Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article published in the Times of India ‘ Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’ on 2nd October, 2012, like many of his articles in the past usually devoid of scholarship and insight into the Quran and Hadith is nothing short of a misleading article which is opposed to the established sources of Islam. His entire article centres on the Quran while ignoring Hadith, the second most important source of Islamic faith and Shariah, which prescribes death penalty as the punishment for blasphemy against the Prophet (p.b.u.h.)

In principle, Hadith is the best interpretation of the Quran as has been stated in the Quran itself. The five-time prayers, Zakat, Hajj, punishment for drinking and many other injunctions have not been mentioned in full details in the Quran but their details have been left to Hadith. The Quran emphasizes the importance of what the Prophet commands and regards his utterances as divinely revealed, in the verses 59:7, and 4:80 etc. The Quran says in another verse “(The Prophet) does not speak of his own desire. It is not less than inspiration sent down to him.” (53:3).

Islam regards blasphemy against the Prophet a very heinous crime and the Quran strongly forbids blasphemy and makes 11 references to it: 2:88, 4:15, 5:17, 5:64, 5:68, 5:73, 6:19, 9:74, 11:19, 14:28, 39:8. They are all against it. At the conquest of Makkah, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (p.u.h.) announced general amnesty to all except those who were guilty of blasphemous acts and sacrilegious statements. Both Nasai and Sunan Abu Daud, famous Hadith books, narrate that a slave Jew woman was killed by her master for her repeated blasphemy against the Prophet and when the case was brought to the Prophet’s notice he declared no retaliation against the master. (Hadith No.4348)

The death punishment assigned for blasphemy is agreed by all Islamic scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah and, is normally covered in Kitabul Hudud in Islamic juridical texts. Because of the evidence for blasphemy punishment being based on Ahadith, certain reported incidents during the lifetime of the Prophet (p.u.h.) and unanimous agreement of all Islamic scholars in all the ages (Ijma), many Islamic countries of the world including Saudi Arabia have legislated death punishment for blasphemy. It is only Qadianis, a community regarded infidels by Muslims across the world, who support no-punishment for blasphemy. It is very surprising that Mr. Wahiduddin Khan, ignoring many clear Ahadith and Ijma (consensus of Islamic jurists) of Islamic scholars - the second and the third most important sources of Islam- claims that no punishment should be meted out to the offender of blasphemy. He stayed blind to Ahadith and Ijma upon which thousands of Islamic injunctions are based.

It is also noteworthy that not only Islam prescribes severe punishment for blasphemers but most of the major religions have prescribed death as punishment for blasphemy. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for both the Jews and Christians:

“And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]”

Love for the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and defending his honour is an important part of belief for a Muslim and, thus, guarantees rewards from Allah. To defend the Prophet is, indeed, a service to humanity and nobility too.

But, under no circumstances can a Muslim take matters in his own hands and go about executing the abuser or blasphemer of the Prophet (p.b.u.h). Muslim individuals are not allowed to punish the blasphemer, but they should demand their governments in a constitutional manner to punish the perpetrator and ban blasphemy.

It is very sad that in his entire article Mr. Wahiduddin Khan has not condemned blasphemy, neither has he said a single word for governments to curb such blasphemous acts. Instead, twisting the fact of the legal status of blasphemy punishment, he has criticized the Muslim community whose sentiments have already been hurt due to the insult to the Holy Prophet. Surprisingly.

I find this article and bringing it here for all those who really want to learn , I have not changed one single word its a copy past , I hope and Pray it will help you all , Please read.

@Zarvan , @The Eagle , @Horus , @Musafir117 , @Azlan Haider , @Starlord , @The Sandman , @Divergent1

 

[Divergent]

He also fought 27 wars and 80 others he sent to fight I mean which were led by Sahabas. Mercy and tolerance have limits. For your information not every one was forgiven at Fattah Makkah RASOOL SAW ordered to kill 4 person one of them was killed when he was hiding behind cloth of Kaba and his crime was Blasphemy

Zarwan you need to calm down, your views are really extreme. I worry for you

 

[M. Sarmad]

Blasphemy is part of Quran and Sunnah it's not Wahabi thing it's agreed thing for past 1400 years.

Blasphemy punishment is NOT a part of Qur'an and Sunnah

Neither has it been "agreed thing" for past 1400 years

you are lying through your teeth now

 

[Divergent]

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article ‘Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article published in the Times of India ‘ Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’ on 2nd October, 2012, like many of his articles in the past usually devoid of scholarship and insight into the Quran and Hadith is nothing short of a misleading article which is opposed to the established sources of Islam. His entire article centres on the Quran while ignoring Hadith, the second most important source of Islamic faith and Shariah, which prescribes death penalty as the punishment for blasphemy against the Prophet (p.b.u.h.)

In principle, Hadith is the best interpretation of the Quran as has been stated in the Quran itself. The five-time prayers, Zakat, Hajj, punishment for drinking and many other injunctions have not been mentioned in full details in the Quran but their details have been left to Hadith. The Quran emphasizes the importance of what the Prophet commands and regards his utterances as divinely revealed, in the verses 59:7, and 4:80 etc. The Quran says in another verse “(The Prophet) does not speak of his own desire. It is not less than inspiration sent down to him.” (53:3).

Islam regards blasphemy against the Prophet a very heinous crime and the Quran strongly forbids blasphemy and makes 11 references to it: 2:88, 4:15, 5:17, 5:64, 5:68, 5:73, 6:19, 9:74, 11:19, 14:28, 39:8. They are all against it. At the conquest of Makkah, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (p.u.h.) announced general amnesty to all except those who were guilty of blasphemous acts and sacrilegious statements. Both Nasai and Sunan Abu Daud, famous Hadith books, narrate that a slave Jew woman was killed by her master for her repeated blasphemy against the Prophet and when the case was brought to the Prophet’s notice he declared no retaliation against the master. (Hadith No.4348)

The death punishment assigned for blasphemy is agreed by all Islamic scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah and, is normally covered in Kitabul Hudud in Islamic juridical texts. Because of the evidence for blasphemy punishment being based on Ahadith, certain reported incidents during the lifetime of the Prophet (p.u.h.) and unanimous agreement of all Islamic scholars in all the ages (Ijma), many Islamic countries of the world including Saudi Arabia have legislated death punishment for blasphemy. It is only Qadianis, a community regarded infidels by Muslims across the world, who support no-punishment for blasphemy. It is very surprising that Mr. Wahiduddin Khan, ignoring many clear Ahadith and Ijma (consensus of Islamic jurists) of Islamic scholars - the second and the third most important sources of Islam- claims that no punishment should be meted out to the offender of blasphemy. He stayed blind to Ahadith and Ijma upon which thousands of Islamic injunctions are based.

It is also noteworthy that not only Islam prescribes severe punishment for blasphemers but most of the major religions have prescribed death as punishment for blasphemy. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for both the Jews and Christians:

“And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]”

Love for the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and defending his honour is an important part of belief for a Muslim and, thus, guarantees rewards from Allah. To defend the Prophet is, indeed, a service to humanity and nobility too.

But, under no circumstances can a Muslim take matters in his own hands and go about executing the abuser or blasphemer of the Prophet (p.b.u.h). Muslim individuals are not allowed to punish the blasphemer, but they should demand their governments in a constitutional manner to punish the perpetrator and ban blasphemy.

It is very sad that in his entire article Mr. Wahiduddin Khan has not condemned blasphemy, neither has he said a single word for governments to curb such blasphemous acts. Instead, twisting the fact of the legal status of blasphemy punishment, he has criticized the Muslim community whose sentiments have already been hurt due to the insult to the Holy Prophet. Surprisingly.

I find this article and bringing it here for all those who really want to learn , I have not changed one single word its a copy past , I hope and Pray it will help you all , Please read.

@Zarvan , @The Eagle , @Horus , @Musafir117 , @Azlan Haider , @Starlord , @The Sandman , @Divergent1

I don't want to engage with you and I can't verify the source of that Hadith nor the reliability.

 

[Zarvan]

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article ‘Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article published in the Times of India ‘ Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’ on 2nd October, 2012, like many of his articles in the past usually devoid of scholarship and insight into the Quran and Hadith is nothing short of a misleading article which is opposed to the established sources of Islam. His entire article centres on the Quran while ignoring Hadith, the second most important source of Islamic faith and Shariah, which prescribes death penalty as the punishment for blasphemy against the Prophet (p.b.u.h.)

In principle, Hadith is the best interpretation of the Quran as has been stated in the Quran itself. The five-time prayers, Zakat, Hajj, punishment for drinking and many other injunctions have not been mentioned in full details in the Quran but their details have been left to Hadith. The Quran emphasizes the importance of what the Prophet commands and regards his utterances as divinely revealed, in the verses 59:7, and 4:80 etc. The Quran says in another verse “(The Prophet) does not speak of his own desire. It is not less than inspiration sent down to him.” (53:3).

Islam regards blasphemy against the Prophet a very heinous crime and the Quran strongly forbids blasphemy and makes 11 references to it: 2:88, 4:15, 5:17, 5:64, 5:68, 5:73, 6:19, 9:74, 11:19, 14:28, 39:8. They are all against it. At the conquest of Makkah, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (p.u.h.) announced general amnesty to all except those who were guilty of blasphemous acts and sacrilegious statements. Both Nasai and Sunan Abu Daud, famous Hadith books, narrate that a slave Jew woman was killed by her master for her repeated blasphemy against the Prophet and when the case was brought to the Prophet’s notice he declared no retaliation against the master. (Hadith No.4348)

The death punishment assigned for blasphemy is agreed by all Islamic scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah and, is normally covered in Kitabul Hudud in Islamic juridical texts. Because of the evidence for blasphemy punishment being based on Ahadith, certain reported incidents during the lifetime of the Prophet (p.u.h.) and unanimous agreement of all Islamic scholars in all the ages (Ijma), many Islamic countries of the world including Saudi Arabia have legislated death punishment for blasphemy. It is only Qadianis, a community regarded infidels by Muslims across the world, who support no-punishment for blasphemy. It is very surprising that Mr. Wahiduddin Khan, ignoring many clear Ahadith and Ijma (consensus of Islamic jurists) of Islamic scholars - the second and the third most important sources of Islam- claims that no punishment should be meted out to the offender of blasphemy. He stayed blind to Ahadith and Ijma upon which thousands of Islamic injunctions are based.

It is also noteworthy that not only Islam prescribes severe punishment for blasphemers but most of the major religions have prescribed death as punishment for blasphemy. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for both the Jews and Christians:

“And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]”

Love for the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and defending his honour is an important part of belief for a Muslim and, thus, guarantees rewards from Allah. To defend the Prophet is, indeed, a service to humanity and nobility too.

But, under no circumstances can a Muslim take matters in his own hands and go about executing the abuser or blasphemer of the Prophet (p.b.u.h). Muslim individuals are not allowed to punish the blasphemer, but they should demand their governments in a constitutional manner to punish the perpetrator and ban blasphemy.

It is very sad that in his entire article Mr. Wahiduddin Khan has not condemned blasphemy, neither has he said a single word for governments to curb such blasphemous acts. Instead, twisting the fact of the legal status of blasphemy punishment, he has criticized the Muslim community whose sentiments have already been hurt due to the insult to the Holy Prophet. Surprisingly.

I find this article and bringing it here for all those who really want to learn , I have not changed one single word its a copy past , I hope and Pray it will help you all , Please read.

@Zarvan , @The Eagle , @Horus , @Musafir117 , @Azlan Haider , @Starlord , @The Sandman , @Divergent1

And his views are rejected by 99 % scholars of Islam and I know Mr Wahiuddin Khan for example here is one

By: Mufti Obaidullah Qasmi*


In refutation of

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article ‘Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’

Mr. Wahiduddin Khan’s article published in the Times of India ‘ Blasphemy in Islam: The Quran does not prescribe punishment for abusing the Prophet’ on 2nd October, 2012, like many of his articles in the past usually devoid of scholarship and insight into the Quran and Hadith is nothing short of a misleading article which is opposed to the established sources of Islam. His entire article centres on the Quran while ignoring Hadith, the second most important source of Islamic faith and Shariah, which prescribes death penalty as the punishment for blasphemy against the Prophet (p.b.u.h.)

In principle, Hadith is the best interpretation of the Quran as has been stated in the Quran itself. The five-time prayers, Zakat, Hajj, punishment for drinking and many other injunctions have not been mentioned in full details in the Quran but their details have been left to Hadith. The Quran emphasizes the importance of what the Prophet commands and regards his utterances as divinely revealed, in the verses 59:7, and 4:80 etc. The Quran says in another verse “(The Prophet) does not speak of his own desire. It is not less than inspiration sent down to him.” (53:3).

Islam regards blasphemy against the Prophet a very heinous crime and the Quran strongly forbids blasphemy and makes 11 references to it: 2:88, 4:15, 5:17, 5:64, 5:68, 5:73, 6:19, 9:74, 11:19, 14:28, 39:8. They are all against it. At the conquest of Makkah, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (p.u.h.) announced general amnesty to all except those who were guilty of blasphemous acts and sacrilegious statements. Both Nasai and Sunan Abu Daud, famous Hadith books, narrate that a slave Jew woman was killed by her master for her repeated blasphemy against the Prophet and when the case was brought to the Prophet’s notice he declared no retaliation against the master. (Hadith No.4348)

The death punishment assigned for blasphemy is agreed by all Islamic scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah and, is normally covered in Kitabul Hudud in Islamic juridical texts. Because of the evidence for blasphemy punishment being based on Ahadith, certain reported incidents during the lifetime of the Prophet (p.u.h.) and unanimous agreement of all Islamic scholars in all the ages (Ijma), many Islamic countries of the world including Saudi Arabia have legislated death punishment for blasphemy. It is only Qadianis, a community regarded infidels by Muslims across the world, who support no-punishment for blasphemy. It is very surprising that Mr. Wahiduddin Khan, ignoring many clear Ahadith and Ijma (consensus of Islamic jurists) of Islamic scholars - the second and the third most important sources of Islam- claims that no punishment should be meted out to the offender of blasphemy. He stayed blind to Ahadith and Ijma upon which thousands of Islamic injunctions are based.

It is also noteworthy that not only Islam prescribes severe punishment for blasphemers but most of the major religions have prescribed death as punishment for blasphemy. It is stated in the Old Testament of the Bible, which is the authority for both the Jews and Christians:

“And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: [Book of Leviticus 24:16]”

Love for the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and defending his honour is an important part of belief for a Muslim and, thus, guarantees rewards from Allah. To defend the Prophet is, indeed, a service to humanity and nobility too.

But, under no circumstances can a Muslim take matters in his own hands and go about executing the abuser or blasphemer of the Prophet (p.b.u.h). Muslim individuals are not allowed to punish the blasphemer, but they should demand their governments in a constitutional manner to punish the perpetrator and ban blasphemy.

It is very sad that in his entire article Mr. Wahiduddin Khan has not condemned blasphemy, neither has he said a single word for governments to curb such blasphemous acts. Instead, twisting the fact of the legal status of blasphemy punishment, he has criticized the Muslim community whose sentiments have already been hurt due to the insult to the Holy Prophet. Surprisingly, he did it at a time when even the rulers of many secular and non-Muslim countries of the world including the US President Mr. Barak Obama have strongly condemned the blasphemous film against the Prophet. On the pretext of freedom of expression, does he intend to justify blasphemy? Why is he tight-lipped about exercising the same freedom of expression regarding holocaust denial?
______________________________________
Mufti Obaidullah Qasmi, Former teacher at Darul Uloom Deoband & Markazul Maarif Education and Research Centre, now Assistant Professor, Arabic Dept. Dr Zakir Hussian College New Delhi. He can be reached at: obaidullahqasmi@gmail.com

Blasphemy punishment is NOT a part of Qur'an and Sunnah

Neither has it been "agreed thing" for past 1400 years

you are lying through your teeth now

It's part of Quran and Sunnah and given to various people since past 1400 years