Putin, Xi message to Trump: US unipolar world is over

[F-22Raptor]

Honestly, I've begun to rethink the events of the late 20th century (from the point of view of the Russian). What used to be defeat and global collapse, now seems to me as strategic retreat (as we usually did in all our wars since Scythian times). Was it the sudden collapse of the USSR or may be it was a deliberate dismission with the aim of regrouping and changing tactics? Well, you can definitely say that the West in 2017 looks immeasurably weaker than in 1997. What will happen in 2037? Who will eventually be the winner in the confrontation between Russia and America? The answer is no longer as unambiguous as it was in the 1990s.

The US won 25 years ago, and left you in the dust. The US economy is now at $19 trillion and soon to surpass $20 trillion, while the Russia economy remains stagnant. Our demographics are in a much better position long term than Russia. Sure the US and Russian militaries will remain competitive for years to come, but our resources are far greater than Russia's. The US has a multitude of world class companies, while Russia has next to none. Our Universities remain the best in the world.

Russia is great at being a global irritant that in some areas punches above its weight, but this "Russia vs US" competition ended years ago.

 

[idune]

US is no longer sole super power - for many, question is what does that mean and what tangible changes will be seen? Simple answer to that question is - in net and immediate effect will US will not able to impose its unilateral will on other countries. For example, regime change in Syria is not possible by US. It is Russia, Iran (and Turkey in some part) are decisive power on the ground. From Trump meeting with Putin it looks like US accept that fact and it is to be seen how much US follow through. Nonetheless, US lost Syria.

Some (like US establishment) get over emotional and argue Russia is under sanction and US is $20 trillion economy etc. But reality is that unlike 80s, US sanction on Russia utterly failed and so did US sanction on Iran. This gives further pick on the ground reality that "sanction" tool US used since WW II, no longer useful in contemporary world order. And US economy at current state is fluff based on printing money. If instability around the world reduced and on going dollar dependency declined as planned, this so called "$20 trillion economy" has plenty to loose. Deep state, US establishment grasp that reality but media and ordinary Joe has no clue. Just dig around the fact why US being self sufficient in oil and gas production, still export as much oil as it imports???

 

[F-22Raptor]

US is no longer sole super power - for many, question is what does that mean and what tangible changes will be seen? Simple answer to that question is - in net and immediate effect will US will not able to impose its unilateral will on other countries. For example, regime change in Syria is not possible by US. It is Russia, Iran (and Turkey in some part) are decisive power on the ground. From Trump meeting with Putin it looks like US accept that fact and it is to be seen how much US follow through. Nonetheless, US lost Syria.

Some (like US establishment) get over emotional and argue Russia is under sanction and US is $20 trillion economy etc. But reality is that unlike 80s, US sanction on Russia utterly failed and so did US sanction on Iran. This gives further pick on the ground reality that "sanction" tool US used since WW II, no longer useful in contemporary world order. And US economy at current state is fluff based on printing money. If instability around the world reduced and on going dollar dependency declined as planned, this so called "$20 trillion economy" has plenty to loose. Deep state, US establishment grasp that reality but media and ordinary Joe has no clue. Just dig around the fact why US being self sufficient in oil and gas production, still export as much oil as it imports???

Really? US Marines and Special Forces are operating over northern, eastern, and southern Syria. An the US Air Force essentially control the skies of Syria. The US could collapse the Syrian regime within a week if it chose to. The US is actively engaged in Syria as I type.

An yes, the sanctions along with lower global oil prices tanked the Russian economy over the last 3 years. Russia is barely sitting over $1 trillion in GDP. There's a reason Putin has been so aggressive in pursuing a reduction in sanctions.

The US economy is fluff? The US is adding hundreds of billions of dollars a year to our economy. We're in the top 7-8 countries in the world in GDP-per-capita. The countries ahead of us have tiny populations. If this is fluff, I will take it any day of the week.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

The US won 25 years ago, and left you in the dust. The US economy is now at $19 trillion and soon to surpass $20 trillion, while the Russia economy remains stagnant. Our demographics are in a much better position long term than Russia. Sure the US and Russian militaries will remain competitive for years to come, but our resources are far greater than Russia's. The US has a multitude of world class companies, while Russia has next to none. Our Universities remain the best in the world.

Russia is great at being a global irritant that in some areas punches above its weight, but this "Russia vs US" competition ended years ago.

Russia alone economically speaking will have hard time to compete with US but Russia and China together will be difference, it remain to be seen if US will be able to contain China and Russia at the same time.

 

[wiseone2]

China and Russia will put an end to US global domination, the reason US become sole super power unchallenged is because of Sino-Soviet split in 1960s and gradually allow US dominate the international affaire, US wouldn't dare to seek for global domination during the Vietnam war, US had to fight with some reservation even after Sino-Soviet split knowing both still supported Vietnam.

Nowadays China and Russia geopolitically support each other on international stage, with Russia and China, both cover over half of Eurasia continent, if both decide to form alliance especially SCO members, combine a second world economic power China, a resource rich Russia and central Asia , we can form and make a new world order and overwrite rule that US and the west have established, US will be marginalized in Euroasia continent (as US exclude Russia from Nato membership and G7).

Time will tell if I'm right.

USA still has most of Europe, GCC, Israel, India, most of ASEAN states, South Korea and Japan
Russians are still begging for the lifting of sanctions. Russians party in Europe not in Shanghai.
Whether you like it or not Russians are White, Christian and European. They want to be accepted in Europe. The country to convince is not America. It is Germany.

US is no longer sole super power - for many, question is what does that mean and what tangible changes will be seen? Simple answer to that question is - in net and immediate effect will US will not able to impose its unilateral will on other countries. For example, regime change in Syria is not possible by US. It is Russia, Iran (and Turkey in some part) are decisive power on the ground. From Trump meeting with Putin it looks like US accept that fact and it is to be seen how much US follow through. Nonetheless, US lost Syria.

Some (like US establishment) get over emotional and argue Russia is under sanction and US is $20 trillion economy etc. But reality is that unlike 80s, US sanction on Russia utterly failed and so did US sanction on Iran. This gives further pick on the ground reality that "sanction" tool US used since WW II, no longer useful in contemporary world order. And US economy at current state is fluff based on printing money. If instability around the world reduced and on going dollar dependency declined as planned, this so called "$20 trillion economy" has plenty to loose. Deep state, US establishment grasp that reality but media and ordinary Joe has no clue. Just dig around the fact why US being self sufficient in oil and gas production, still export as much oil as it imports???

Oil was $100 for a long time. That propped Russian economy. Oil will stay below $50. That will put a number on the Russian economy for years to come.

No way. Being superpower means the life of your citizens should reach to the superpower level. But actually the resource of earth could not afford so many population living a superpower level. The oil consumption per capita could be used as a index to indicate the living level.
Right now the whole population of G8 is less than that of China. And the oil consumption of China is only 1/12 of that of USA, 1/7 of that of Japan. If China reach to the level of USA, then 85% of petroleum in the world at present would be consumed by China. Or even if China just catch up with Japan in aspect to oil consumption per capita, 50% of the whole petroleum would be consumed by China.
So in the forseeable future, the world will be struggling very much to supply enough resource to statisfy 1.4 billion Chinese. How could another 1.4 billion or more Indian have the opportunity to enjoy the same living style of the people of developed countries.
So stop dreaming of the supa powa nonsense. Such statement is just used to incite indian to counter China and contain China and drag the development process of China . The westerners don't want to share the limited resource with Chinese ,why they want to share with indian ?

It doesn't matter whether people want to share. By 2040-2050 Indian economy will be close to China, USA and EU. India has a large population. Enough Indians will work to push the economy there.

 

[Stuttgart001]

It doesn't matter whether people want to share. By 2040-2050 Indian economy will be close to China, USA and EU. India has a large population. Enough Indians will work to push the economy there.

Depending on what, Indian economy could be close to China, USA in 2040.
It is 2017, too early to brag. How many bluffing indian have done ?
How working-hard are indian ?
I have worked and do business with indian people for quite a while.
Most indian rich or poor educated or uneducated are too good at enjoying life which seems like they were living in a developed western country with good well being.
Such optimistic attitude about life maybe good for person but absolutely bad for nation.
IMO, the only reason why indian could acheive so fast development in economy in recent years is becoz you indian are too poor . 1 accumulating to 10 is easy, 100 accumulating to 1000 is hard relativly.
Now, China is struggling to catch up with other countries like EU, Germany, South Korea , US, in high-end industries . Once China succeeding in some area while there must be some country failed in some area.
The global market and resource is relatively stable and increasing slowly. When the entire space has been occupied by the developed country with much more advanced tech, how could indian develop its economy consistently without tech and market and resource ?

 

[terranMarine]

Honestly, I've begun to rethink the events of the late 20th century (from the point of view of the Russian). What used to be defeat and global collapse, now seems to me as strategic retreat (as we usually did in all our wars since Scythian times). Was it the sudden collapse of the USSR or may be it was a deliberate dismission with the aim of regrouping and changing tactics? Well, you can definitely say that the West in 2017 looks immeasurably weaker than in 1997. What will happen in 2037? Who will eventually be the winner in the confrontation between Russia and America? The answer is no longer as unambiguous as it was in the 1990s.

Clearly a defeat. The collapse of SU can be contributed to Zbigniew Brzezinski's plan to lure Soviets into the Soviet-Afghan War trap. He wanted to give you guys the Soviet version of the Vietnam War. Ofcourse it was not based solely on this part for the collapse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brezhnev_Doctrine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_reaction_to_the_Polish_crisis_of_1980–81
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinatra_Doctrine

All these events, the arms & space race plus the Soviet-Afghan War all lead to the collapse of SU.
If you ask me the collapse was inevitable but also necessary for Russia. Today it is in a better shape than the SU era, had it not collapsed by the end of 80s of early 90s and kept it going for some time could it have prevented the collapse of Yugoslavia? Russia was in a very bad shape so it could not have lasted. The US made the mistake by targeting China around the same time. From there on relations between China and Russia started to improve and today it is the most important one. Look at Georgia,Ukraine,Crimea,Syria clearly Russia ain't backing down and
US' latest sanctions in recent years can't bring Russia to its knees. China too is flexing its muscles in ECS & SCS, DPRK giving US the middle finger. This bloc is showing the world that the unipolar order is no more.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

The US won 25 years ago, and left you in the dust. The US economy is now at $19 trillion and soon to surpass $20 trillion, while the Russia economy remains stagnant. Our demographics are in a much better position long term than Russia. Sure the US and Russian militaries will remain competitive for years to come, but our resources are far greater than Russia's. The US has a multitude of world class companies, while Russia has next to none. Our Universities remain the best in the world.

Russia is great at being a global irritant that in some areas punches above its weight, but this "Russia vs US" competition ended years ago.

Russia never was anything but an irritant. They had no economic clout and their citizens have always been poor. This so-called "strategic retreat" mentioned led to many of their brightest minds fleeing their country FOREVER. Many Russians went to Israel and many came to the US. I have worked with many smart Russians who are angry when looking back at the conditions they used to live in. They have zero interest in ever going back and basically have completely abandoned their country. Russia's loss was the West's gain.

Russia should have put more energy into raising their people's standard of living. They got so hung up on embracing state run companies that they fell way behind the West. Once things fell apart the people started running away...then it was just Game Over.

 

[wiseone2]

Depending on what, Indian economy could be close to China, USA in 2040.
It is 2017, too early to brag. How many bluffing indian have done ?
How working-hard are indian ?
I have worked and do business with indian people for quite a while.
Most indian rich or poor educated or uneducated are too good at enjoying life which seems like they were living in a developed western country with good well being.
Such optimistic attitude about life maybe good for person but absolutely bad for nation.
IMO, the only reason why indian could acheive so fast development in economy in recent years is becoz you indian are too poor . 1 accumulating to 10 is easy, 100 accumulating to 1000 is hard relativly.
Now, China is struggling to catch up with other countries like EU, Germany, South Korea , US, in high-end industries . Once China succeeding in some area while there must be some country failed in some area.
The global market and resource is relatively stable and increasing slowly. When the entire space has been occupied by the developed country with much more advanced tech, how could indian develop its economy consistently without tech and market and resource ?

India is a large market we can use the same measures China used to pry open access to technology and market.
India's economic rise is not a given. It is probable. Enough of us work hard.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Whether you like it or not Russians are White, Christian and European. They want to be accepted in Europe. The country to convince is not America. It is Germany.

This map shows their true allegiance...no matter what Putin tries to sell Xi. He isn't going to have the people behind him.

Europe and the US with the snap of our fingers can have them all jump. That's the Ace we have up our sleeve. We could say "ditch Socialism/Communism and we'll happily embrace you all again into the fold just like it was before 1917" and then it will truly be game over. Slowly we are creeping towards this target.

How to convince 150M stubborn Russians they have lost their way down the wrong path and get them back into the fold?...by convincing 1.3B Chinese they were on the wrong path and help them raise their standard of living higher than Russia's.

BTW that brain drain didn't migrate to China.

 

[Zibago]

Wars are mere policy by "other means" in the world of international geopolitics. Look at what Russia did in Eastern Europe and Afghanistan if you think that only USA does it. Or any number of powers before these two. Perhaps China will be doing same things in the future, just like it did in the past days of glory, given that geopolitical strategies broadly remain the same.

Nothing can come close to what US did in Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan
and no USSR did shit in Afghanistan not Russia

 

[wiseone2]

Clearly a defeat. The collapse of SU can be contributed to Zbigniew Brzezinski's plan to lure Soviets into the Soviet-Afghan War trap. He wanted to give you guys the Soviet version of the Vietnam War. Ofcourse it was not based solely on this part for the collapse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brezhnev_Doctrine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_reaction_to_the_Polish_crisis_of_1980–81
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinatra_Doctrine

All these events, the arms & space race plus the Soviet-Afghan War all lead to the collapse of SU.
If you ask me the collapse was inevitable but also necessary for Russia. Today it is in a better shape than the SU era, had it not collapsed by the end of 80s of early 90s and kept it going for some time could it have prevented the collapse of Yugoslavia? Russia was in a very bad shape so it could not have lasted. The US made the mistake by targeting China around the same time. From there on relations between China and Russia started to improve and today it is the most important one. Look at Georgia,Ukraine,Crimea,Syria clearly Russia ain't backing down and
US' latest sanctions in recent years can't bring Russia to its knees. China too is flexing its muscles in ECS & SCS, DPRK giving US the middle finger. This bloc is showing the world that the unipolar order is no more.

What about anti-communist wars in Ethiopia, Angola, Mozambique ?

 

[Stuttgart001]

India is a large market we can use the same measures China used to pry open access to technology and market.
India's economic rise is not a given. It is probable. Enough of us work hard.

Being a large market has a premise which is firstly you should have money first that means being developed in the first place. OK? If your people could not afford much, what a large market indian could be ?
China used to developing the manufacture industry and earn money by exporting on the step one,then we could buy lots of goods from foreign country.
That is a simple logic. No money, no market.
Can you indian understand ?

 

[Fledgingwings]

Unipolar or not.the wars are always brought by superpowers.

 

[VCheng]

Nothing can come close to what US did in Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan
and no USSR did shit in Afghanistan not Russia

Please read more history for some really eye-opening comparisons.

 

[Zibago]

Please read more history for some really eye-opening comparisons.

Vietnam war was started by the torpedo ships that never existed
Iraq war was started over nukes that never existed
Wars in Latin America were started over bananas good job