Putin Looks to Pakistan as Cold War Friend India Buys U.S. Arms

[ito]

Thats a convienient excuse, it isn't however a valid reason. For all intents and purposes, the engines were to be used by PAF and PAF only, the Chinese weren't using those RD-93's. Moscow knew it better than us. The Indians objected though, regardless of the direct link part or not, back then, I do not need to tell you what happened next. The same is true for II-78 where the Russians didn't bother to pressure Ukranians from making the sell to Islamabad and for Mil Mi17 where a direct sale was made. Maybe its time to let go of the idea of supreme Indian influence on Kremlin, the present policies and attitudes seem to contradict the long held and 'even valid for quite a time' idea. Russians are looking for new partners and despite the fact that money will be a large factor, it wont be the only factor as most of the Indians seem to think and hopelessly cling to.

if chinese weren't involved, pak would not have got those engines. And chinese do have considerable influence over russia and that is my point in the previous post.

yes, money is not the only factor...but you do realize that the dynamics between india and russia are not based solely on money. my contention is in any defence dealing between pak and russia, india would be a very large factor, and russians would be sensitive to that factor.

 

[Secur]

I don't think so. They just want a bigger share of........... wait............. wait.............. Indian arms market........ they don't give two hoots about ours. It's just the way Russians do business, you'll see that in no time the Indians will buckle and will agree to all Russian demands on PAKFA and will settle for ToT only on paper and the money will start flowing again. Russians are just good gangsters, nothing more.

Only if it were that simple, Hyperion. If the very purpose was to send India a message, there were far better and effective ways to do so. The deal has been on the cards for a very long time, that isn't the only thing however, the whole Russian policy towards Pakistan has taken a U-turn in many other ways, defense is just more prominent than the rest.

if chinese weren't involved, pak would not have got those engines. And chinese do have considerable influence over russia and that is my point in the previous post.

yes, money is not the only factor...but you do realize that the dynamics between india and russia are not based solely on money. my contention is in any defence dealing between pak and russia, india would be a very large factor, and russians would be sensitive to that factor.

I think that then we can acquire every Russian hardware as long it is through Chinese? Is this how it works?

Well, lately, it hasn't been anything else. It appears that the Kremlin is now willing to lose that sensitivity, this deal is in stark contrast to "we do not sell to your enemies" popular comment not so long ago.

Last three posts have been requests on debate. But again the same song of trolling without pointing out what was the term which can be classified as troll. most of it has been explained to A rafay.

"It appears", "quality approvals , trolling accusations... stop the usual jibes..been reading that for almost 5 years...

You are free to quote anyone, anytime. What exactly is the request for? Something which would only come when you were confronted for technical trolling is meaningless. The whole post can be classified as such, this wasn't a thread for Indian superiority complex now.

 

[Dash]

I don't think so. They just want a bigger share of........... wait............. wait.............. Indian arms market........ they don't give two hoots about ours. It's just the way Russians do business, you'll see that in no time the Indians will buckle and will agree to all Russian demands on PAKFA and will settle for ToT only on paper and the money will start flowing again. Russians are just good gangsters, nothing more.

Those days are gone buddy. India has tied Russia in many other deals such as Nuclear plants, industrial hardware and many others that runs to billions $, they simply cant bully us by these petty actions. There is a strategic partnership that outlines the area of actions including ownership between us.

Its the same reason we can arm twist Russia with China, neither they can to us.

 

[he-man]

I don't think so. They just want a bigger share of........... wait............. wait.............. Indian arms market........ they don't give two hoots about ours. It's just the way Russians do business, you'll see that in no time the Indians will buckle and will agree to all Russian demands on PAKFA and will settle for ToT only on paper and the money will start flowing again. Russians are just good gangsters, nothing more.

Its different from mki deal.Why??
Because we will be giving 5.5 billion$ exclusively for r&d purposes here so indeed will have much better tot.But the rest of the post is correct,they have made a good move as india was moving out of their sphere of influence.

 

[illusion8]

India also delayed the sale of RD 93 for a few years



It is a BUYER's market after all

The Chinese placed orders for a 1000 RD93's if I am not wrong, no way India could have blocked that deal.

 

[he-man]

The Chinese placed orders for a 1000 RD93's if I am not wrong, no way India could have blocked that deal.

Chinese also have full access to al-31 for more than 15-20 years now.

 

[Hyperion]

The foundation stone of the so called Russia-Indo 'strategic partnership' was....... wait........... wait.......... to deny Russian arms to Pakistan at all costs..... so where does that leave you now?

You are mistaken mate, Russia wants all the cake.... this is precisely how they are going to arm twist you into doing things you aren't cooperating with.

Those days are gone buddy. India has tied Russia in many other deals such as Nuclear plants, industrial hardware and many others that runs to billions $, they simply cant bully us by these petty actions. There is a strategic partnership that outlines the area of actions including ownership between us.

Its the same reason we can arm twist Russia with China, neither they can to us.

 

[Secur]

Russian equipment is not junk,period.
As for commenting on this purchase,,its bound to attract lot of eyeballs from indian establishment and russians have managed to send out a strong signal that they value their businesses and if not india then there are plenty of others for their equipment.

Perfectly reasonable.

That isn't my opinion, however that was the opinion of some friends from the other side of the border, when the Russian FM was in Islamabad and the deal was in its initial phase. Reasonable it is.

Its different from mki deal.Why??
Because we will be giving 5.5 billion$ exclusively for r&d purposes here so indeed will have much better tot.But the rest of the post is correct,they have made a good move as india was moving out of their sphere of influence.

Please tell me, can you acquire the technology coming from Russia, from somewhere else? It isn't one way then, contrary to the most popular opinion on PDF.

 

[jarves]

I don't think so. They just want a bigger share of........... wait............. wait.............. Indian arms market........ they don't give two hoots about ours. It's just the way Russians do business, you'll see that in no time the Indians will buckle and will agree to all Russian demands on PAKFA and will settle for ToT only on paper and the money will start flowing again. Russians are just good gangsters, nothing more.

India doesnt have any say in PAKFA.We will only be contributing in FGFA,whose deal is most likely to be signed in December when Putin comes,And the work has already started before the deal has been signed.Around six laboratories are working on it.Our contribution will be around 25%(in research) and 50% in funding.

 

[SpArK]

You are free to quote anyone, anytime. What exactly is the request for? Something which would only come when you were confronted for technical trolling is meaningless. The whole post can be classified as such, this wasn't a thread for Indian superiority complex now.

Request was for debating on the topic which you said was trolling. You only jumped here and there and even called on mods rather than indulging in some.

Again superior complex blah blahs like a minnow on the forum... try to show atleast some seniority while addressing.

 

[he-man]

The foundation stone of the so called Russia-Indo 'strategic partnership' was....... wait........... wait.......... to deny Russian arms to Pakistan at all costs..... so where does that leave you now?

You are mistaken mate, Russia wants all the cake.... this is precisely how they are going to arm twist you into doing things you aren't cooperating with.

Too bad crimea happened,oil prices went down,they got sanctioned decreasing their bargaining power and clout,making them even more desperate for money which they will find in.....wait...wait.....,u know where.

 

[Secur]

Request was for debating on the topic which you said was trolling. You only jumped here and there and even called on mods rather than indulging in some.

Again superior complex blah blahs like a minnow on the forum... try to show atleast some seniority while addressing.

I believe that I have been debating since then with different people, unless of course the definition is somehow different now. You can debate if you want, that is minus the cynicism and the idea that the world somehow revolves around your country, in a positive constructive manner.

Oh no, I would have, the contents of the thread forced me to say it, read all around, what exactly are your brethren trying to talk about if not the superiority complex which somehow appears to be dented by the news?

 

[Hyperion]

LOL...... I like the way you think!

Too bad crimea happened,oil prices went down,they got sanctioned decreasing their bargaining power and clout,making them even more desperate for money which they will find in.....wait...wait.....,u know where.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The Chinese placed orders for a 1000 RD93's if I am not wrong, no way India could have blocked that deal.

India only delayed the deal for RD 93 for a few years till we were sure of dealing with the JF 17
but has BLOCKED the re sale of AL31 to Pakistan

Chinese also have full access to al-31 for more than 15-20 years now.

China has got full access to AL 31 so why China is unable to sell J 10 to Pakistan

In fact General; Kayani during his visit to Moscow asked for the sale of
AL 31 equipped J 10 to Pakistan .

J10 will be sold to Pakistan when Chinese W 10 is ready

 

[he-man]

India only delayed the deal for RD 93 for a few years but has BLOCKED
the re sale of AL31 to Pakistan



China has got full access to AL 31 so why China is unable to sell J 10 to Pakistan

Either restrictions from russia or pakistanis don't want j-10.No way we could ever know.