Punjab Police to buy 5000 M4 Assault Rifles

[Zarvan]

What a waste of money. I wonder how much money has been earmarked for commission for Shahbaz Sharif? Such a waste of money. This boils my blood how money is being wasted here.

Punjab Police is at best a militant armed wing of PML-N. Every MNA, MPA or Minister is interested in having his own SHO's in their local constituency, so they can make sure they control the police stations. Unless this filth is never fixed, no amount of M4's will fix this force.

Police Force has to be equipped with best possible weapons it's not waste of money but right use of money. The Shabaz Shareef using it as political tool won't get resolved even if Police is unarmed. Police is getting attacked and needs great equipment to fight criminals that being said yes Punjab Police needs reforms but unarming them is not one of them.

 

[El_Swordsmen]

Colonial era policing system in Pak, police personal must have a hand gun, baton n sprays, handcuff, torch etc. Moreover the present patrolling system must be shited to car patrolling with a couple of officers to a car. Divide the force up among sectors instead of making 7-8 men petrol a single area in a single pick up truck. Every car must have a single close quater weapon i.e shotgun to which one of the pair could shift to if needed. Street patrolling on foot must also be initiated in densely populated areas to traffic prone roads with an integrated radio system. Assault rifles must be the domain of a standard elite unit like swat which needs to be expanded to every district of a province, with APC's, assault support equipment, situational awareness equipment etc ,on call 24/7 at a moments notice to assault, hostage recovery, raids etc while the normal police officers provide support. Secondly a detective division must be enacted to pursue and follow up investigations backed up by forensics etc. Do all this and i promise we wont need FC and Army in our cities ever again, the army will be free to spend thier limited resources on more important task of national security...

and bigger cities should have their own police force ... this provincial police system is chaos

 

[Awan68]

There are two aspect to internal security/law and order that need resolving. First the political manipulation. Second the resource contraints. The first one can't be easily resolved but will come through maturity although of course work needs to begin now to adress the issue.

However we need to ask why we need a large PN capability. Wars Pakistan has had with India have been short shrift affairs. In no war has played any pivotal role to the outcome of the war. Today with nuclear capability at play wars are going to be even shorter. Assume India blocked off Arabian Sea and Pakistan was choked. How long do you think would it be before we would reach "first nuclear strike" scenario? Any situation that might pose existential threat would trigger nuclear first strike. Therefore the size of PN would be irrelevant.

Pakistan now needs to just focus on nuclear forces to offer it protection from external threats. Then save as mucxh money and sort out the biggest weakness in Pakistan which is lack of internal security.

I agree that internal security is essential but we would just have to agree to disagree on where to procure the funding.

Let me qoute an example just recently punjab police underwent a uniform change costing billions which was simply a gross waste of money, money which could've been spent on improving city patrol network, modern investigation tech and special elite units in every sector for rapid high firepower support. Now this is just one instant of resources wasted, there are a hundred others.Add up that money n we discover that added funding is not required but a more disciplined prioritized division of funds so we need not divert funds from other sectors but manage the ones we already have better. With improving economy we can have extra funds for policing.

Secondly u rely too much on nuclear deterent, both sides will use it only as matter of last resort as it ensures mutual assured destruction, now we need a better navy to secure and protect our growing volume of trade, we need it to ensure that india cannot easily block our ports so that we wont have to resort to nuclear as that would destroy us too, its not about " i will go down but will take me with u", its about if u attack me " you will go down and i will watch u do that standing over u with a smirk" , see my meaning. We will never follow the north korean model of defence where one threatens half the world with nuclear holocast every other day n hence get shunned and sanctioned by the entire world.

We must have every conventional force available to counter our enemy as niether we nor they really want to resort to nuclear despite all the media chest thumping. As u yourself said that Pak indo conflicts have been low intensity, theatre specific short purges so one doesnt resort to nuclear in such conflicts, its niether justified nor smart, nuclear is for last resort even in all out massive war.

In indo Pak case India will try to block our ports and conduct swift incursions into our territoty but wont go beyond a certain point so as to threaten nuclear war, than they will negotiate kashmir away.

Bottomline is we needed major bolstering of our navy like yesterday to deny india hegemoney over our trade routes and shore assets without having to resort to nuclear.

 

[Mitho1980]

So switching to a caliber which is bieng switched to the caliber they are already using......... Amazing

 

[Indus Pakistan]

without having to resort to nuclear.

So what was the point of nuclear capability? I thought it was about securing defence and not about power projection?

 

[Vergennes]

And rightly so Police is not health service provider they are their to fight criminals in fact in normal situations mostly Police see and fight more than Army. So Police should have Assault Rifles and Police is already using AK so just replace them with new better Assault Rifles. Also create Police SWAT units based on SSG and also units based on Army LCB.

Reforms I want to see are

every regular Policeman should be equipped 5.56 Caliber Assault Rifle with latest optics and good hand Guns and at least 4 extra magazines each. Also BP vest and should do a 6 week Anti Terror course at Pabbi secondly every Province needs to raise two Special Forces one SWAT which should be trained exactly like SSG for example in future if Punjab has 400000 PoliceMan, there should be at least 8000 SWAT among them, Than another Special Force unit should be like LCB of Army which should have the training which our Light Commandos of Army get. Finally IB and FIA and Special Branch of each province needs to be better trained and equipped specially they need to develop cyber wings and Forensic Labs.

@Vergennes

That would be a dream to have every officers equipped like that.... !

 

[Malik Usman]

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@Vergennes I think there is a cultural differance in the police systems we have in UK and other parts of the world. I think UK police, the Garda in Ireland [Irish Police] , Norweigian and other Scandanavian systems are very similar. To begin with police is a service provider and it's ethos is to provide a service just like health service. No differant. The police must enjoy a symbiotic relationship with the public.

Of course policing is only one aspect of society. We have to ask ourselves what type of society we want? A socially, economically inclusive society that takes care of all? A society that shows empathy for those who have issues? A society that even shows human decency to those of us who are "evil" and do bad things like murder etc? Don't forget those who are evil could be your father, your son, your brother. Even the bad are part of us much as we dislike them.

Therefore to begin with society has to reduce poverty, take care of the sick, reduce want, look after the needy. When society acts this way over time it leads to a more equitablr society where there is less friction. It's a question and belief that most humans are born good and decent. If you create a fairer society it will lead to more peace. It is this enivironment the UK police operates. Therefore it is a service. We like it like that. I like our officers - female and male to be unarmed and walk with a smile.

UK police might go around wearing kids gloves compared to rest of the world but that is so because most people are decent people. However do not think for a second that just because they have smile on their faces that should real trouble come along from the minority of bad people or real evil shows up. Then trust me off comes the gloves faster than you can blink your eyelid. The hammer and chainfist comes out fast. And as you may know to handle the rare but extreme dangers there is entire tier of special units to deal with many of them world famous. From Armed Respone Vehicles that carry two man highly trained gun officers, to other support units all the way if needed the world famous SAS. The mother of all special forces units. So when the bad guys do make a show they go down fast !!!

For the real bad guys no smiles but get ready to face this.

And when the chips are really down. Who do you call? Yes the SAS.

But when I go out for a walk I just need this thank you because my town is not a warzone.

 

[Pakistani E]

The less militarised the police forces is an indication of a more safer and mild society. People on this thread advocating mass arming of the police forces with assault forces etc literally do not even know the basics of policing and what a police force is supposed to be.

Apart from having specialized units, there is absolutely no reason why your average cops should look like infantry fire teams. Again, the most important job for the police is crime prevention, law enforcement, protect personal and private property and preventing civil disorder etc. Not at all like what some folks on this thread are advocating.

Don't want to turn the Police in to private militias for provincial political warlords.

 

[waz]

https://www.facebook.com/

Lol dear God.....
Now throw M4's into the mix.

 

[Vergennes]

The less militarised the police forces is an indication of a more safer and mild society. People on this thread advocating mass arming of the police forces with assault forces etc literally do not even know the basics of policing and what a police force is supposed to be.

Apart from having specialized units, there is absolutely no reason why your average cops should like infantry fire teams. Again, the most important job for the police is crime prevention, law enforcement, protect personal and private property and preventing civil disorder etc. Not at all like what some folks on this thread are advocating.

Don't want to turn the Police in to private militias for provincial political warlords.

You are absolutely right and spot on. Many like @Zarvan however wants police forces equipped to deal with any situations they can be confronted to,faced with the proliferation of heavy weapons in hands of criminals and terrorists.

He isn't asking for something really fancy,just decent protections (helmets,bulletproof vests) and decent armaments to fight back. If you are with a single pistol and without any protection against heavily armed terrorists/criminals with AKs for exemple,you aren't going to last long........ we sadly "made the experience" of it. I can give you few exemples ;

-When a police patrol came in front of the Kouachi brothers who just attacked Charlie Hebdo journalists,they were totally underpowered against terrorists with bulletproof vests and AKs,they couldn't have done much. Luckily,none were injured. They could have been stopped much earlier if police were properly equipped and protected.

-A local Gendarmerie patrol quickly rushed to the scene where the Kouachi brothers were later spotted. The pair were able to heavily injure one of the terrorist (in the neck) but had to retreat after coming under heavy fire because ,they weren't properly equipped to face terrorists with AKs.

They could have neutralized them much earlier if they were properly equipped and armed. But we had to wait the intervention of specialized units (GIGN) to neutralize them once for all.

-During the hostage taking at the Bataclan concert hall,a pair of first responding officers entered in the hall and were able to take out one of the terrorist. However they had to retreat as they weren't properly equipped (no heavy body armor,no helmet,no assault rifles) and outgunned by heavily armed terrorists.

Lot of similar stories against heavily armed criminals. Few days ago were heavy gunfire exchange between Gendarmes and criminals.

I know what you would think,obviously these are rare incidents and that is true. Officers are being given heavy protections (body armor,helmets,shields) and assault rifles (thing they never had). On apparence they don't look like infantry soldiers.

The equipment is locked in the patrol car trunk.

The proportion of interventions on which they'll use these equipments is very low. I myself wouldn't like to see them permanently heavily armed. However,they are now armed to deal with any situations.

@Kaptaan

 

[Maarkhoor]

Lol dear God.....
Now throw M4's into the mix.

It happens bro...they are also human.

 

[Awan68]

So what was the point of nuclear capability? I thought it was about securing defence and not about power projection?

The defence of a nation is always multi layered never singular or u get the mess north korea is in right now. Nuclear is a last resort when all other means have failed and its about the survival of the state itself as a free people and when encountered with a nuclear armed adversery its about "we will be destroyed but we will take you with us", this threat may stop them from permanently anexing entire Pakistan bit it wont stop them from anexing entire kashmir by forcing us into submission by blockading our trade for months.

 

[Soldier-X]

I hope its for elite force/CTD etc
we need to equip them first before regular police...

 

[Babur The Uzbek Tiger]

Seems like a waste of money for a country that produces nukes, tanks, small arms, aircraft.

There should be a state of emergency declared in a country when dozens of people are killed every month by suicide bombers and IED explosions in public places. The military and police should restrict movement and work together. Having such a complacent level of normalcy during these times in your country seems crazy to me. Not only is there a law and order issue, but full blown terrorism and insurgency.