PTSD and other psychological issues in Pakistan army

[SQ8]

I feel obliged to respond since I see some fallacious argument being peddled here like PA has less PTSD than US Army ? And why is that ?

Our soldiers are not stretched by any means and with the emergence of drones, are not exposed much to explosions and similar situations on a daily basis. Which is in total contrast to PA.

In fact PA now functions as a police in some cities with high no of such incidents. PA simply doesn't have enough resources to follow up and research the matter can be the probable reason for such PTSD cases going unreported !

While you are not incorrect, there is another side to the argument. The relative lack of security in countries like Pakistan from the earliest of days where a soldier or officer sees it exposes that person to a level of "immunity" to certain day to day incidents. Take my own example, I was born and raised in a city where I have been mugged multiple times at gunpoint.. have had bullets rain down on my house, been at least 5 times within 5km(and in one case 400m) of a major bomb explosion and seen the severed head of children lying in the street from something as silly as a kite string coated with glass. Life here is cheap unlike western nations so that value of life and the shock of it going takes a little longer to settle in. These incidents, little by little have that rather deplorable effect of inhumanity upon one's psyche. So whereas in my city I am used to gunfire at random, if I go to a relatively safer city like the Capital and hear gunshots.. I will not panic and move very orderly to a safer position I am used to.
It does not mean that I too not have some form of PTSD.. mine is from motorcycle riders since that is the vehicle of choice for muggers.. so even in a relatively safe environment(as @jhungary mentioned).. I treat all motorcycles with suspicion and instinctively block their path towards my car doors.

Another example can be taken of the SF team that went in to clear out the school of terrorists in the Peshawar Attack. Throughout their operation the men were stoic and surgical, but the minute after the team gave the all clear..they all collapsed on the floor and sobbed away uncontrollably.

So the fact is that PTSD does exist, but the Trauma build up is not sudden as might be more common with ISAF forces.. but quietly building up over time. That does not go to say that PTSD is less or more.. but rather the way PTSD builds up is different and its effects or how it shows may also be quite different... perhaps a new term should be coined for the PA(and many Pakistanis) which is CTSD( Constant Traumatic Stress Disorder).

 

[FaujHistorian]

While you are not incorrect, there is another side to the argument. The relative lack of security in countries like Pakistan from the earliest of days where a soldier or officer sees it exposes that person to a level of "immunity" to certain day to day incidents. Take my own example, I was born and raised in a city where I have been mugged multiple times at gunpoint.. have had bullets rain down on my house, been at least 5 times within 5km(and in one case 400m) of a major bomb explosion and seen the severed head of children lying in the street from something as silly as a kite string coated with glass. Life here is cheap unlike western nations so that value of life and the shock of it going takes a little longer to settle in. These incidents, little by little have that rather deplorable effect of inhumanity upon one's psyche. So whereas in my city I am used to gunfire at random, if I go to a relatively safer city like the Capital and hear gunshots.. I will not panic and move very orderly to a safer position I am used to.
It does not mean that I too not have some form of PTSD.. mine is from motorcycle riders since that is the vehicle of choice for muggers.. so even in a relatively safe environment(as @jhungary mentioned).. I treat all motorcycles with suspicion and instinctively block their path towards my car doors.

Another example can be taken of the SF team that went in to clear out the school of terrorists in the Peshawar Attack. Throughout their operation the men were stoic and surgical, but the minute after the team gave the all clear..they all collapsed on the floor and sobbed away uncontrollably.

So the fact is that PTSD does exist, but the Trauma build up is not sudden as might be more common with ISAF forces.. but quietly building up over time. That does not go to say that PTSD is less or more.. but rather the way PTSD builds up is different and its effects or how it shows may also be quite different... perhaps a new term should be coined for the PA(and many Pakistanis) which is CTSD( Constant Traumatic Stress Disorder).

on a lighter side,

the way most of us drive on our roads, is a clear source of CTSD.

Either that is a source of "immunity" or just a sign that collectively we "do not care" anymore.

 

[Sneaker]

On what basis have you concluded that PTSD is lower in PA than the US Army?
It could also be that PTSD symptoms are pooh poohed away in your "martial" race leaving the victims to suffer.

But really, please enlighten as to how or what is the basis of your statement PTSD being "lower" in PA

Nailed it. PTSD in countries like India and Pakistan are by no way lower than any other country, just not documented, investigated and reported sufficiently...

 

[VCheng]

................. perhaps a new term should be coined for the PA(and many Pakistanis) which is CTSD( Constant Traumatic Stress Disorder).

There is already a term: desensitization, defined as the "diminished emotional responsiveness to a negative stimulus after repeated exposure to it."

 

[extinct]

I can totally associate with that, after coming back from active Ops are I used to drive like a maniac, I was constantly scanning the roadside for IEDs and watching out for cars moving too close to mine. I would survey people and pick off people I don't like and then I'd be thinking about how I should probably report them to the Police before they blow themselves up.

This is vigilance (or heightened sense of awareness) that comes after anything that is of deep psychological impact and is a very natural response... this is also what I have heard of from a ton of armymen... is this PTSD???

What is considered PTSD is a clinical diagnoses that affects daily life for extended period of time, not a few weeks but months and years... maybe over reaction to a perceived disease ("binning") causes people to get hooked on drugs that only make the problem worse! If everyone tells you persistently that you should have pain in the muscles after exercise then you would start concentrating too much on it, start looking for it and eventually would start feeling it as well... I am not saying "it is all in the head" but there is a distinction b/w a normal sub-clinical response and an acute over-reaction... Some otherwise perfectly normal soldiers carry out several ToDs without any concern while some other react very negatively to just one op... I have myself have never been in the forces and might swing 100% from this view seeing the first instance of my "comrade in arms" die next to me but from what I have observed (second hand accounts) there has been no clinical PTSD...

This is all "Monday night Quarterbacking" and I think I will resign from any further comments on the topic... All I brought up were my observations and nothing more... If this problem is there I am quite sure PA has mechanisms in place to alleviate it... The fraternity of PA knows how to take care of its own... I remember a Brigadier who had a Polo accident and remained in a coma for years and his family was held perpetually frozen in time with all the perks and protocol of such... Even in first world countries they would do away with all that soon after and with a "golden parachute" for the family if at all...

 

[Providence]

There is already a term: desensitization, defined as the "diminished emotional responsiveness to a negative stimulus after repeated exposure to it."

There are proven ways to get over dissonance. Militaries in South Asia should spend some time and resource to explore it further.

 

[VCheng]

There are proven ways to get over dissonance. Militaries in South Asia should spend some time and resource to explore it further.

Only if they can admit that such a problem exists.

 

[VCheng]

This is vigilance (or heightened sense of awareness) that comes after anything that is of deep psychological impact and is a very natural response... this is also what I have heard of from a ton of armymen... is this PTSD???

What is considered PTSD is a clinical diagnoses that affects daily life for extended period of time, not a few weeks but months and years... maybe over reaction to a perceived disease ("binning") causes people to get hooked on drugs that only make the problem worse! If everyone tells you persistently that you should have pain in the muscles after exercise then you would start concentrating too much on it, start looking for it and eventually would start feeling it as well... I am not saying "it is all in the head" but there is a distinction b/w a normal sub-clinical response and an acute over-reaction... Some otherwise perfectly normal soldiers carry out several ToDs without any concern while some other react very negatively to just one op... I have myself have never been in the forces and might swing 100% from this view seeing the first instance of my "comrade in arms" die next to me but from what I have observed (second hand accounts) there has been no clinical PTSD...

This is all "Monday night Quarterbacking" and I think I will resign from any further comments on the topic... All I brought up were my observations and nothing more... If this problem is there I am quite sure PA has mechanisms in place to alleviate it... The fraternity of PA knows how to take care of its own... I remember a Brigadier who had a Polo accident and remained in a coma for years and his family was held perpetually frozen in time with all the perks and protocol of such... Even in first world countries they would do away with all that soon after and with a "golden parachute" for the family if at all...

Ah yes, the classic strategy:

A. There is no such problem.
B. If there is such a problem, we know how to deal with it.
C. How we deal with it is no one else's concern.

The End

 

[Neptune]

PTSD used to be very usual in Turkey for the past two decades. Especially those served in Southeastern Anatolia Region during the counterinsurgency period against PKK. PTSD victims were from specific units. Especially from the Special Forces and Cavalry Brigades.

 

[Gufi]

Many soldiers have been exposed to these conditions before they join active duty and have come to terms with death as a possibility.
There is a difference in the lifestyle of the two armies is because of the mindset of the soldiers and that is what causes the increased number of cases in the US army.
while a lot of recruitment in the USA is done at younger ages and as a part time career decision to pay for their university education and escape the problems at home.At other times it is thirst for action. There are very few people who think of the duty as a career and many look at it at a stepping stone. they are not as aware of the risks involved or the tough life ahead. And many of the soldiers while in the beginning signed up to fight are soon disfranchised by the whole war on terror and have no real cause to fight for. and the support they receive when they get home is awful which leads to complete meltdowns.
With the current situation of VA there is no way one can claim better healthcare for American soldiers compared to Pakistani soldiers.
soldiers in the US are forgotten and the media has covered this issue time and again with no parade for the returning soldiers but parades for every other occasion has left the soldiers wondering who they have been fighting for and what was the use of the sacrifices.
On the other hand in Pakistan the army is your career and once you join it you are there forever. There is a very proud tradition of having whole generations serving in the army and most in Pakistan are prepared for death and many pray for the death of a martyr. They leave their families knowing that they may never come back. The ability to look at death differently has a great affect on the mindset of people. for one army death is an absolute and for the other death is a life after full of joy. I am not debating the religious point here it is a mindset and it is there which helps overcome many traumas. also they know they are the last line of defense and the whole nation and they fight for their families at home. Also the fact that there is a great medical plan for the family of soldiers and their families and the knowledge that whatever happens their families will have support helps.

 

[Selous]

I feel obliged to respond since I see some fallacious argument being peddled here like PA has less PTSD than US Army ? And why is that ?

Our soldiers are not stretched by any means and with the emergence of drones, are not exposed much to explosions and similar situations on a daily basis. Which is in total contrast to PA.

In fact PA now functions as a police in some cities with high no of such incidents. PA simply doesn't have enough resources to follow up and research the matter can be the probable reason for such PTSD cases going unreported !

I think that PA does have a lower incidence of PTSD and that even those men who do have PTSD have a less severe form of it. The reasons in my opinion are as follows:
1) Personnel in the US army are relatively well informed about PTSD and thus expect to develop it...this is well documented phenomenon in the medical world. If patients are told that they suffer from a certain ailment and what it's symptoms are...they begin to display those symptoms even if they don't actually suffer from the ailment. PA personnel on the other hand are not so knowledgeable on the topic and thus either don't realize that they are suffering from PTSD or they suffer to a lesser degree if at all.

2) PA army is not conducting morally questionable operations all around the world whereas the US army is. The questionable morality of their actions probably affects the soldiers state of minds. The PA on the other hand does not suffer from such qualms. PA is fighting to protect their homeland.

3) The US army is operating in harsh unfamiliar terrain whereas PA are in their own backyard.

4) PA army believes it is conducting jihad and thus fulfilling a religious obligation. They believe that they will be rewarded for their actions. They do not consider their fallen to be "dead" but rather shaheed. This lessens the burden on their minds.

5) Support provided by extended family structure.

وَلاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتًا بَلْ أَحْيَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ
Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord; They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah: And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the Shuhada's [martyrs'] glory is in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

Qur'an, Surah 3 (Al i Imran), Ayat 169 – 170

 

[Samandri]

In documentaries and interviews, American soldiers breaks down in tears or have horrified looks when they recall their battles in iraq or afghanistan.............you wont see such fragile soldiers in our part of world

 

[Providence]

In documentaries and interviews, American soldiers breaks down in tears or have horrified looks when they recall their battles in iraq or afghanistan.............you wont see such fragile soldiers in our part of world

Have you guys even made documentaries on your soldiers ? How about documenting the Lal Masjid operation ? All I see is lies and rumours floating around any major event of your country and stakeholders feel comfortable in letting the situation be.

You know what the approach is called ? Ostrich syndrome. See for yourself how confused your countrymen are on every damn issue.

In our part of the world, we don't live by martial race rules like boys don't cry; girls are born home makers; etc etc. They were crying because it is perfectly natural for them to do so.

Our society is open to such behaviors and hence we have support groups where a lot of constructive things happen which you guys are completely oblivious of in your country.

 

[FaujHistorian]

In documentaries and interviews, American soldiers breaks down in tears or have horrified looks when they recall their battles in iraq or afghanistan.............you wont see such fragile soldiers in our part of world

There are men who express their emotions openly

And then their are men who do not.

 

[Jaanbaz]

In rural areas mental illness=being possessed by a Jinn. I have heard cases of mentally ill people being beaten to death and tortured by Pirs while trying to get rid of Jinn.

Have you guys even made documentaries on your soldiers ? How about documenting the Lal Masjid operation ? All I see is lies and rumours floating around any major event of your country and stakeholders feel comfortable in letting the situation be.

You know what the approach is called ? Ostrich syndrome. See for yourself how confused your countrymen are on every damn issue.

In our part of the world, we don't live by martial race rules like boys don't cry; girls are born home makers; etc etc. They were crying because it is perfectly natural for them to do so.

Our society is open to such behaviors and hence we have support groups where a lot of constructive things happen which you guys are completely oblivious of in your country.

Hey man calm down. Show us your other flag.