Proposed new provinces for Pakistan, "need of the hour"?

[Last Hope]

I don't have time to waste reading crap.
Just want to say, they are using the divide and rule policy.

At this stage, we need unity. Not to be divided further!
And MQM is the best party in dividing people.

I so hate that takla, who wants to break and tear the Nation just for his seat somewhere
I am not reading the article, just saying a truth about it.

Break us, and more we fall.
Divide us, more we lose,
Create new ones, more we lag,
And finally, do all this three, we are a dead Nation.

Thanks a lot you scary coward, who can't come to Pakistan and have the fear, and want to divide us apart, tear us away just for his seat somewhere in any of the province.
So hate you *******************

 

[caylu]

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

Imagine so many provinces and getting from one to another while crossing a third. How many state borders and toll booths are we going to pay at ??
Then there's the bureaucracy to think about. Thousands will have to be hired alongwith perks. We'll be bankrupt on the first working day. Too many small states means complete Balkanization and an administrative nightmare.

Just keep 6-8 large ones and call it done.

just want to add that America have 50+ states and people do drive a lot across more than half a dozen states and they dont get bankrupt
So i hope once we get rid of this wave of politicians, people will be smart & aware enough to realise that they are no good for us and will boot them once for ever.

But we also as a nation has to think as a nation instead of zaat, baradari and zubaan and has to analyze things rationally.

 

[red_baron]

this is not ravi of ravi shastri, but is is ravi of ravi river in lahore and central punjab. Secondly uttar and dakshin are Sindhi words for north and south. No indian inclination is here

yea i know but what was your inspiration for naming a province after a river?
we dont need any provinces and i can bet neither will establishment favour it and who will bring 2/3 majority?All the financial powers that a province enjoys can be transferred to districts under some formula...more provinces will cause financial burden...more chief ministers..more governors...provincial ministers...police chiefs....district management ?....more private jets for the governors and chief ministers...you will pay for all the bills and protocol?...you just came up with some map with weird names....Bahawalpur district has its contributions towards the federation but that dosent means we should make it a separate province....some sort of heavy financial/development package will work.......this guy durani who started this debate....he was in previous Governments cabinet for 10 years and an info minister but he never uttered a single work about adding a new province...now when he saw that he has no future in politics and this is the only way he can remain in news he just started this new fuss.....we have other important things to take care of

 

[caylu]

yea i know but what was your inspiration for naming a province after a river?
we dont need any provinces and i can bet neither will establishment favour it and who will bring 2/3 majority?All the financial powers that a province enjoys can be transferred to districts under some formula...more provinces will cause financial burden...more chief ministers..more governors...provincial ministers...police chiefs....district management ?....more private jets for the governors and chief ministers...you will pay for all the bills and protocol?...you just came up with some map with weird names....Bahawalpur district has its contributions towards the federation but that dosent means we should make it a separate province....some sort of heavy financial/development package will work.......this guy durani who started this debate....he was in previous Governments cabinet for 10 years and an info minister but he never uttered a single work about adding a new province...now when he saw that he has no future in politics and this is the only way he can remain in news he just started this new fuss.....we have other important things to take care of

1. That is just a suggestion and more of a placeholder, if you have a better suggestion, i am open to it.. I am looking forward to something nice & good from you.

2. As i have said multiple times that i have just given a suggestion which i thought can work and help Pakistan to progress and reduce the sense of depravity in many cultures and increase homogeneity and positivity in our nation, i m not a member of senate or parliament, i am a Pakistani who loves Pakistan a lot. and i want to be a constructive, positive and rational Pakistan instead of a bickering Pakistani.. Choice is yours.

3. District system has been used by musharraf already and as i said above that districts are not economically viable in "my point of view". But i can be wrong and open to suggestion.

4. Secondly the criteria for all my blog was the betterment of Pakistan and nothing else.
I think you will agree we are not moving forward rather we are moving backward. So definitely we need to fix this mess. All of us are ready to point out corruption, heterogeneity, distrust, killings, & so many other ills. So i think if we are educated people we should along with pointing out the ills of our society should give some solutions also..

So look forward to a positive comments from you

 

[muse]

Caylu

Can you explain why districts are not economically viable and actually perhaps you may explain what you mean by economically viable ?

 

[Mirage2000]

We are already struggling with economy and I think its not a time talk about new provinces perhaps when economy improves,IMO then we should explore these options,we now are in no positions to bear the increased administrative expense these provinces will cost.Moreover every new provinces will ask for more funds under NFC award and Federal Gov may not be able to meet those demands.

These Seraiki and Karachi province political stunts should be best left to Siasatdans,who come up these new things just to deflect our attention from Real isues like Inflation,terrorism,Joblessness a sick economy etc.

 

[muse]

I'm really confused about all this talk of expenses of administration? Shouldn't provinces raise funds for their services through taxes they levy? In some ocuntries there is a state tax and a federal income tax - is something like that not something we may consider?

 

[Karachiite]

I'm all for more provinces in Pakistan. Just look at what's happening in Punjab. Lahore is getting all the development while Faisalabad, Multan, Bahawalpur etc are all being neglected. Multan is getting some development but that's only cuz Gilani is from Multan after he leaves little to no development will take place in Multan.
Similarly in Sindh Karachi is eating up all the development as well while Thatta, Hyderabad, Sukkur etc are not getting as much development as they should.

Divide Punjab into at least 3 parts, Divide Sindh into 3 parts in which Karachi becomes it's own province/autonomous region. Divide KP by making a Hazara province. FATA could be it's own province or maybe merged with KP. And divide Balochistan into 3 pieces as well.

Or we can go with the Administrative Unit system.

 

[Mirage2000]

I'm really confused about all this talk of expenses of administration? Shouldn't provinces raise funds for their services through taxes they levy? In some ocuntries there is a state tax and a federal income tax - is something like that not something we may consider?

What kind of state tax Sir? is it some indirect tax or Income tax,In any case provincial indirect tax would hurt poor by raising Inflation and Direct tax! would anybody want to be double taxed? besides how many people do pay Income Tax(what is actually due from them) other than salaried class?.
The other thing is when you would have 15+ provinces even then some provinces will receive peanuts because they have less population than others or they do not have people earning much to be taxed(add to this revenue generation claim under NFC which benefits a province) or some other reason.

And then there is provincial assembly which will have MPA's and they wouldn't volunteers they would receive allowances,then Governers,CM's and bureaucrats and Contract employees etc.Realistically recognizing todays scenario and revenue situation now these are no small expenditures and will beyonds the resources of many provinces.

Another fact is all the provinces today are inefficient in revenue generation and heavily indebted when we look at the budgets all the provinces are making deficit budgets in the name of development adding to misery of Federal Govt: with situation like this with four provinces what will happen when we would have 7 or 15 or 17?

I am not against new provinces but we should do it when we are better placed and gradually not instantly 15 provinces.

 

[muse]

I was not suggesting that we double tax anyone - but in the US for instance, States raise funds through sales tax, and there is also a state tax and states compete to attract businesses to their particular states -- why can't we do that in Pakistan? Why just Nawaz or Shabaaz can go abroad to attract business? Why not local policies to attract business?

You claim that we are inefficient in revenue generation, I would suggest that it's more useful if we think in terms of revenue collection.

We all, all countries have some common problems with regard to governance, we can learn from othersl

 

[caylu]

I was not suggesting that we double tax anyone - but in the US for instance, States raise funds through sales tax, and there is also a state tax and states compete to attract businesses to their particular states -- why can't we do that in Pakistan? Why just Nawaz or Shabaaz can go abroad to attract business? Why not local policies to attract business?

You claim that we are inefficient in revenue generation, I would suggest that it's more useful if we think in terms of revenue collection.

We all, all countries have some common problems with regard to governance, we can learn from othersl

Thank you for hitting the problem on the head.

Firstly of all making more provinces is not divide and rule.
Secondly i have repeatedly mention in my blogs that we are not making provinces on the basis of language or ethnicity. Thats why we suggested some "weird names" like ravi & Bolan & khyber instead of pashto, punjabi, balochi etc. So we hope that if it does not improve harmony among us for each other than at least it will remove the sense of depravity in us.

Lastly and most importantly we have divided it like this to kick start new development of cities, new exploitation of the resources. Currently all the development is going into Karachi or Lahore or Islamabad which is definitely not healthy and creating lot of hatred for each other. Also helping anti-Pakistan forces to exploit it further.

So these smaller & more managable units will hopefully give rise to more sincere leadership and quick resolution of some outstanding issues like Kalabagh Dam among us.

 

[caylu]

We are already struggling with economy and I think its not a time talk about new provinces perhaps when economy improves,IMO then we should explore these options,we now are in no positions to bear the increased administrative expense these provinces will cost.Moreover every new provinces will ask for more funds under NFC award and Federal Gov may not be able to meet those demands.

These Seraiki and Karachi province political stunts should be best left to Siasatdans,who come up these new things just to deflect our attention from Real isues like Inflation,terrorism,Joblessness a sick economy etc.

Thats what i have tried to address in this new scheme, to help focus on reducing inflation, reducing joblessness, why there are not jobs in interior sindh or southern or western punjab. Why people are migrating in such large number to Karachi & Lahore. All these areas are full of potentials. Agricultural, natural resources, mineral & many other economic avenues can be opened up if we give our attention to them. Currently the politicians are just using blame games & exploiting ethnic difference. This has to end if we want to prosper.

Once again i will say that at least, We, the next generation, should focus what are the problems & how WE can resolve them. You will also agree that we are currently not on the right course and following the same path is not the solution. So if you have a better solution, please do share it.. At least we can show the way to our current leadership or replace them if they are not ready to listen instead of keep getting exploited on ethnicity & language difference.

 

[kugga]

I like your idea of new provinces if this scheme is followed I think no body will have any issue... and BTW I think karachi should remain the provincial capital coz it will create more difficulty now if the provincial capital is moved from karachi to hyderabad...

 

[RazorMC]

I was not suggesting that we double tax anyone - but in the US for instance, States raise funds through sales tax, and there is also a state tax and states compete to attract businesses to their particular states -- why can't we do that in Pakistan? Why just Nawaz or Shabaaz can go abroad to attract business? Why not local policies to attract business?

You claim that we are inefficient in revenue generation, I would suggest that it's more useful if we think in terms of revenue collection.

We all, all countries have some common problems with regard to governance, we can learn from othersl

I guess you are referring to revenue sharing where the federal govt. collects one form of tax and the provincial government collect another.
If this is implemented, then a fair distribution would be for the federal govt. to collect Sales and certain other taxes, while the provincial government determines and collects the income and corporate tax.
The states would then be respobsible for all affairs like education, health and law/order.

No more NFC required. In this way even Balochistan gets an income for development.

 

[muse]

RazorMC


What I had in mind was to allow for greater participation and more local governance -- most people really don't experience government at the federal government and they can't really effect it -- but I think the cause of democracy and the idea that people can actually effect government will go a very long way in helping us to be rid of the politics of identity can be attenuated and we can see people more confident in their ability to effect government.

And yes, being able to levy taxes and more importantly to collect them, seems to me, will allow larger numbers of people than at present to be served by government and allow a greater measure of responsibility for these provinces to work harder to attract business

It changes the entire field and the rules of the game -- In Pakistan, since it's birth, we have been told and most believe, that every one must fight for a piece of the pie (so to speak), so we always have provinces at each others neck and at the federal government's neck - but perhaps once they have understood that the politicians and bureaucrats at the provincial level, at the district level at the city level have a role to play in bringing more jobs to the area and revenues to the province/state, we may begin to understand that this whole bit about a "piece of the pie" is just rubbish and that we have the ability to grow the pie instead of fighting for a piece of it - it can change politics itself