Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

[SMC]

How's the one picture been discredited? The eastern asian markings were not under the indian ammo tag as indians made it look like. The 82mm mortar are not produced in indian ordinance factory, but can be produced elsewhere in india. Also you may know that not all weapons production information is made public. In fact it makes sense for RAW to use weapons not made public so as to avoid getting caught. So how is it been discredited?

 

[vkurian]

No point buddy...

No one will be able to drill sense in to our Pakistani friends. They have gone into collective sate of denial. All that the Pakistan government and agencies are doing is look for the India link so each can wash of their responsibility and all know the pressure the government is under.

What surprises me is why the Pakistani people readily buy into these stories of Indian involment why don't they ask why fact and proofs are brought out in open and India pulled up. I as an Indian would never appreciate any involment in Pakistan for good or bad.

We are two different nations and have to live as neighbors in spite of our likes or dislikes. There has been lot of effort on the part of Pakistan government and media to bracket us in the same bracket as they are we should watch out. The whole world media is monitoring the situation in Afghanistan minutely and no Indian agencies will be worth its salt if they do any misadventure there.

In a time when the western governments are under tremendous domestic pressure as body bags of their young citizens arrive every day if India were to do anything counterproductive it would do it only at the risk of global isolation which we can ill afford as a country.

The problem with Pakistan is it refuses to see the situation without anti India glasses as they have still not got over 1971. I must say we had a role then right or wrong. Pakistanis feel hurt to my dismay some of the Bangladeshi also do. All I have to say is now you are two independent countries go ahead and form an alliance or treaty. To hold the future generations of Pakistan hostage to this feeling of revenge and animosity will only plunge you to deeper anarchy.

 

[SMC]

If you got nothing constructive to add then don't post on this forum.

 

[vkurian]

If you got nothing constructive to add then don't post on this forum.

I thought I was constructive and practical.....may be a bit blunt.

point one thing in my post which you feel is not constructive.

 

[SMC]

Err.. pretty much all of it. You're treating everyone who doesnt agree with you as some sort of sub-human. I don't even know where 1971 comes in the picture. Maybe you're just pulling it up to make yourself feel better. I know reliable sources that know the existance of undeniable proof (and loads of it) within the ISI and army and I will trust them any day over you or any other indian. That's why I am angry at GoP for not going public with this proof.

 

[vkurian]

Buddy

1971 I brought up coz I thought it was a watershed in our bilateral relations. It was never good the way we parted but 1971 took it to a point of no return. We have to live with it, if I were a pakistan national I would have felt hurt so I brought it up.....no intention to make me feel good.

I don't doubt your sources but as you rightly said why don't follow thru with all related actions like bringing it out in front of world media & world forums.Nice to know you agree with me on this one.

 

[SMC]

1971 has nothing to do with this in any way or form. Besides at a personal level I feel East and West Pakistan seperating were a good thing because it was never going to work and Bangladesh will be in water within a few decades anyway. But yeah animosity didn't start because of 1971, it started back 1947 due to Kashmir issue.

The going public part has been discussed to death previously and I am sure you can look it up in previous replies on this topic.

 

[idea123]

No point buddy...

No one will be able to drill sense in to our Pakistani friends. They have gone into collective sate of denial. .

See, U just proved yourself right ..

 

[vnomad]

How's the one picture been discredited? The eastern asian markings were not under the indian ammo tag as indians made it look like.

That's acceptable. Lets neglect that then.

The 82mm mortar are not produced in indian ordinance factory, but can be produced elsewhere in india.

I'd have to disagree. A mortar(of the kind in the pic) is a fairly sophisticated weapon and far beyond the ability of Indian 'country-made' dealers to build. That's why the Naxals or NE militants aren't equipped with them.

Also you may know that not all weapons production information is made public. In fact it makes sense for RAW to use weapons not made public so as to avoid getting caught. So how is it been discredited?

I believe its pretty far-fetched to believe that RAW, had custom made mortar rounds manufactured by the OFB, somehow wiped them off the records(the CAG pretty thoroughly audits accounts and the OFB is currently under CBI investigation), and rerouted them through Afghanistan into a conflict zone where there was no dearth of small arms and where at least some of the weapons were bound to be recovered by the Pakistani security forces.

 

[Goodperson]

How's the one picture been discredited? The eastern asian markings were not under the indian ammo tag as indians made it look like. The 82mm mortar are not produced in indian ordinance factory, but can be produced elsewhere in india. Also you may know that not all weapons production information is made public. In fact it makes sense for RAW to use weapons not made public so as to avoid getting caught. So how is it been discredited?

All gas without substance.

 

[Hulk]

How's the one picture been discredited? The eastern asian markings were not under the indian ammo tag as indians made it look like. The 82mm mortar are not produced in indian ordinance factory, but can be produced elsewhere in india.

Dear this is imagination, when you were told IOF does not produce 82mm mortar who went ahead and said this could have been produced covertly. So what you are doing is if argument does not stand you are trying to imagine things. Come on do you think we will make progress this way. Why you have only one way of thinking even though evidence does not support you.

 

[Vassnti]

Even if some how they were 6 India mortar shells the argument if they are or not is irelevant, terrorists get their equipment from all over below is an example of one weapons cache from Iraq.



The seventh cache consisted of 70mm HEAT PG7M Russian rockets, 85mm HEAT PG7 Iraqi rockets, 68mm HE 26P French rockets, 251 60mm Type 83A Chinese mortars, 105 82mm HE O832D Russian mortars, a 64mm HEAT PG-18 Russian rocket, 23 57mm HE S5M0 Russian rockets, a 75mm HE bounding Type 69 Chinese rocket, 425 PG15 propellant cartridges, a 73mm HE 346E Russian projectile, 34 40mm HE OG7 Bulgarian grenades, 235 Chinese mortar fuses, PD MP4, a 100mm Illumination Type 71 Chinese mortar, 21 160mm HE F853A Russian mortars, 200 UZRGM grenade fuses, 1000’ yellow detonation cord, a 64mm HEAT PG-18 Russian rocket with launcher, RPG-7 launchers, 22 pounds of stick propellant, 40 pounds PE-4, 25 pounds aluminum-based HME, 230 160mm mortar increments, 160mm base propellant cartridges, 50 Chinese mortar fuses PD MP1B, 100 Russian fuse projectiles PD GO2, 3,600 7.62x39mm ammunition, 600 9.3x74mm ammunition, 300 .22 Caliber ammunition, 500 9mm ammunition, HE F1 Russian hand grenades, a AK-47 Russian assault rifle, an MG3 German machine gun, an MG42 German machine gun, an SKS Russian carbine, a PPSh Russian submachine gun with drum, a PKM Russian machine gun receiver, a RPD Russian light machine gun, Sterling British submachine guns, a G3A3 German battle rifle, binoculars, night vision scope, mortar sights, sniper sights, a non-functioning suitcase IED and 60mm mortar tubes.

weapons trade is international

 

[Hulk]

To top it up no country is so naive that they will give weapons to terrorist to be found by Army of enemy. I also read Maoist have Chinese weapons in India, but India is not blaming Chinese government for that.

 

[SMC]

I'd have to disagree. A mortar(of the kind in the pic) is a fairly sophisticated weapon and far beyond the ability of Indian 'country-made' dealers to build. That's why the Naxals or NE militants aren't equipped with them.

Right, so how are Taliban getting it then? And they seem to have got it only recently. Clearly PA is not giving as many indian members would claim just so as that would be like buying another person a gun to kill you.

I believe its pretty far-fetched to believe that RAW, had custom made mortar rounds manufactured by the OFB, somehow wiped them off the records(the CAG pretty thoroughly audits accounts and the OFB is currently under CBI investigation), and rerouted them through Afghanistan into a conflict zone where there was no dearth of small arms and where at least some of the weapons were bound to
be recovered by the Pakistani security forces.

It's intelligence agency dude.. covert opertion. They don't wanna get caught.

 

[SMC]

Dear this is imagination, when you were told IOF does not produce 82mm mortar who went ahead and said this could have been produced covertly. So what you are doing is if argument does not stand you are trying to imagine things. Come on do you think we will make progress this way. Why you have only one way of thinking even though evidence does not support you.

Please, we do not know much about that picture to make certain claims. I am by no means claiming that what I am saying is a reality. However, I trust my army, and knowing how deeply ISI has infiltrated india, their claims are not something that can be brushed aside just based on public information.

---------- Post added at 07:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------

Even if some how they were 6 India mortar shells the argument if they are or not is irelevant, terrorists get their equipment from all over below is an example of one weapons cache from Iraq.



The seventh cache consisted of 70mm HEAT PG7M Russian rockets, 85mm HEAT PG7 Iraqi rockets, 68mm HE 26P French rockets, 251 60mm Type 83A Chinese mortars, 105 82mm HE O832D Russian mortars, a 64mm HEAT PG-18 Russian rocket, 23 57mm HE S5M0 Russian rockets, a 75mm HE bounding Type 69 Chinese rocket, 425 PG15 propellant cartridges, a 73mm HE 346E Russian projectile, 34 40mm HE OG7 Bulgarian grenades, 235 Chinese mortar fuses, PD MP4, a 100mm Illumination Type 71 Chinese mortar, 21 160mm HE F853A Russian mortars, 200 UZRGM grenade fuses, 1000’ yellow detonation cord, a 64mm HEAT PG-18 Russian rocket with launcher, RPG-7 launchers, 22 pounds of stick propellant, 40 pounds PE-4, 25 pounds aluminum-based HME, 230 160mm mortar increments, 160mm base propellant cartridges, 50 Chinese mortar fuses PD MP1B, 100 Russian fuse projectiles PD GO2, 3,600 7.62x39mm ammunition, 600 9.3x74mm ammunition, 300 .22 Caliber ammunition, 500 9mm ammunition, HE F1 Russian hand grenades, a AK-47 Russian assault rifle, an MG3 German machine gun, an MG42 German machine gun, an SKS Russian carbine, a PPSh Russian submachine gun with drum, a PKM Russian machine gun receiver, a RPD Russian light machine gun, Sterling British submachine guns, a G3A3 German battle rifle, binoculars, night vision scope, mortar sights, sniper sights, a non-functioning suitcase IED and 60mm mortar tubes.

weapons trade is international

I believe there was a picture on one of the earlier pages of some equipment only produced in india by an indian company.