Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[White and Green with M/S]

No he is being an asshole

Yaar why you angry with him??? He is not abusing you

 

[Trango Towers]

@The Raven

'For project Azm, the first decision to be taken before any detailed design work is done will be the engine...which clearly already has been decided upon' your post page 172 post 2566

So waffler what engine as I asked in the 1st place...you make claims and nothing to back it up except abuse.

Yaar why you angry with him??? He is not abusing you

You will find I only asked him what engine...he came back with knickers in a twist so he deserves what he gets. Assholes need the treatment

 

[White and Green with M/S]

@The Raven

'For project Azm, the first decision to be taken before any detailed design work is done will be the engine...which clearly already has been decided upon' your post page 172 post 1556

So waffler what engine as I asked in the 1st place...you make claims and nothing to back it up except abuse.

You will find I only asked him what engine...he came back with knickers in a twist so he deserves what he gets. Assholes need the treatment

No one is confirmed that what engine will be select he is just guessing/assuming

 

[Trango Towers]

No one is confirmed that what engine will be select he is just guessing/assuming

I know that...you don't know the conversation so please stay out. I will not allow some shit person abuse me.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I know that...you don't know the conversation so please stay out. I will not allow some shit person abuse me.

What he abuse to you but in my opinion azm will medium weight jet so it needs high thrust class engine same as like WS-10C/P&W F-100-132/AL-41F1, so i i think WS-10C will be good option for azm

 

[Syed1.]

Don't get your knickers in a twist. I never claimed to know what engine has been selected. I was merely point out the fact that given how far advanced the design stage is at, the PAF must have taken a decision on the engine already, or at least short selected a few options, in case there's any unforseen circumstances ahead.

This makes sense. As per PAF's own admission the design is progressing through conceptual design stages. Since we don't produce an engine nor do we have an engine industry in Pakistan who the AvRid could provide specifications for to design a new engine then it only makes sense that the first thing that was decided for Azm was what engine to select and then the rest of the plane was designed around it.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

It depends on the PAF's ASR.

I think twin RD-93MAs would put this fighter in the same weight category as the FC-31 and KFX.

However, if the PAF wants twin WS-10-type engines, the weight class would go up to TFX and J-20-class.

So, it'll depend on the PAF's target payload and range.

Personally, I think the PAF wants to get a TFX or J-20-class fighter so that it can extend its offensive capability (especially with SOWs and ALCMs). However, a smaller design similar to the FC-31 could still get the job done for the PAF. It could also be an optimal way if the PAF wants to move to a one manned platform-fleet (plus UCAVs).

Why did I see you put the j-20, j-31 and a model plane (even if it never took off) in the same position. I feel offended.

Well, I mean. At least Turkey is starting to make the plane. And then compare Korean K? Airplanes. Because South Korea at least started to make it.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Why did I see you put the j-20, j-31 and a model plane (even if it never took off) in the same position. I feel offended.

Well, I mean. At least Turkey is starting to make the plane. And then compare Korean K? Airplanes. Because South Korea at least started to make it.

what are you offended about?
there is no good or bad comparison. the Chinese examples are mentioned for the sake of weight class and scope of the project single vs twin engine.

are you complaining that your working examples are compared with the concepts of other jets from Korea and Turkey that have not taken flight yet?

but then you seem to justify the Turkish and Korean projects because both countries have started to make their respective jets.
be happy that your flying examples are used as a benchmark, or if you like @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can replace J-20 and J-31 with F-22 and F-35 from Lockheed Martin for comparison. but then again F-35 has the biggest single engine in its class which further complicates things over to you @Bilal Khan (Quwa), there might be issue of message lost in translation.

 

[SBUS-CXK]

what are you offended about?
there is no good or bad comparison. the Chinese examples are mentioned for the sake of weight class and scope of the project single vs twin engine.

are you complaining that your working examples are compared with the concepts of other jets from Korea and Turkey that have not taken flight yet?

but then you seem to justify the Turkish and Korean projects because both countries have started to make their respective jets.
be happy that your flying examples are used as a benchmark, or if you like @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can replace J-20 and J-31 with F-22 and F-35 from Lockheed Martin for comparison. but then again F-35 has the biggest single engine in its class which further complicates things over to you @Bilal Khan (Quwa), there might be issue of message lost in translation.

Well, it's better. The Turkish plane is in the same position as the F-22 and F35.

And I think. The 5 gen aircraft of Vietnam and Iran and India are also in the same position as the F-22 and F-35.

 

[WinterFangs]

Waffler

 

[Kabotar]

Came across a C.V which had AZM mentioned on it. Hey @JamD , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can you guys decoded it in simple english? Not posting all of it because of privicy.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Came across a C.V which had AZM mentioned on it. Hey @JamD , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can you guys decoded it in simple english? Not posting all of it because of privicy.
View attachment 716343

The question here is why is this candidate openly stating that he worked in this project. This sort of stuff annoys the hell out of me, in terms of the carelessness. Anywhere in the world if you worked in a TS project you can use general terms, but should NEVER EVER state the name of projects involved. This can be a gold mine for adversary IAs. The second question is the short length of engagement is a bit concerning too. Just an observation.

Also looks like more of an intern function. Basically a requirements analysis person, grabbing OS info to establish broad parameters for FCS of a 5+ gen stealth aircraft.

 

[JamD]

Came across a C.V which had AZM mentioned on it. Hey @JamD , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can you guys decoded it in simple english? Not posting all of it because of privicy.
View attachment 716343

Looks like basic FCS stuff a new control systems engineer with a bachelors degree would do. Looks like things I would give a new FCS guy to get started on. Translation: Tried a few control techniques on an aircraft model, looked at how to get performance specifications, and read a few papers.

The question here is why is this candidate openly stating that he worked in this project. This sort of stuff annoys the hell out of me, in terms of the carelessness. Anywhere in the world if you worked in a TS project you can use general terms, but should NEVER EVER state the name of projects involved. This can be a gold mine for adversary IAs. The second question is the short length of engagement is a bit concerning too. Just an observation.

Also looks like more of an intern function. Basically a requirements analysis person, grabbing OS info to establish broad parameters for FCS of a 5+ gen stealth aircraft.

Thankfully Azm is NOT a top secret project being run by an SPD organization. On the contrary it is being run quite like how a defense project in a developed country is run by a private company, which is great news. People who work on Azm can tell people they worked on it and share and collaborate in their work. This is GOOD. Just because all military R&D has been secret and done by SPD doesn't mean it just has to be that way forever. Let's not be Quraish e Makkah lol.

Besides there's literally nothing in that description that is anything but generic.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Looks like basic FCS stuff a new control systems engineer with a bachelors degree would do. Looks like things I would give a new FCS guy to get started on. Translation: Tried a few control techniques on an aircraft model, looked at how to get performance specifications, and read a few papers.



Thankfully Azm is NOT a top secret project being run by an SPD organization. On the contrary it is being run quite like how a defense project in a developed country is run by a private company, which is great news. People who work on Azm can tell people they worked on it and share and collaborate in their work. This is GOOD. Just because all military R&D has been secret and done by SPD doesn't mean it just has to be that way forever. Let's not be Quraish e Makkah lol.

Besides there's literally nothing in that description that is anything but generic.

I'd say others are more worried about us leeching their expertise then we should be about our 'secrets' (re: the NGFA). Besides, if we're still sticking to the aggressive 2030-ish timelines, we'll need OEM partners. They'll want to deal with an open book (including the Chinese and Russians), otherwise, their home gov'ts will raise all sorts of red flags.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

I'd say others are more worried about us leeching their expertise then we should be about our 'secrets' (re: the NGFA). Besides, if we're still sticking to the aggressive 2030-ish timelines, we'll need OEM partners. They'll want to deal with an open book (including the Chinese and Russians), otherwise, their home gov'ts will raise all sorts of red flags.

It is not a question of secrets. It is just a maturity of people. Anyone who has truly worked in a professional environment that requires some discretion and or secrecy will always be vague when providing info on resumes. If anyone has worked for defence contractors like LM, BAE, know that people are very careful in how they express the projects they have worked on. That is all I am saying. Ask me what I have worked on in my career, and I will always be careful and judge my words based upon who I am talking with.