Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Ultima Thule]

So when they actually put an operational VTOL jet in operational service, please remind me the date and time. It will not be before 2028! And at that time, the US would have moved on to deploying 7th generation hypersonic unmanned combat jets, which would target anything across the globe within 60 minutes after the orders are given.

bro are you saying the USA deploying 7 generation hyper-sonic unmanned combat jets in 2028, no chance where are the 6th generation jets goes 6th generation jets will be deployed in 2028-2030 time frame, and i think 7th generation hypersonic unmanned combat jets will not appear 2050-2055 time frame, and do research before you post @DJ_Viper

 

[FuturePAF]

In exploring the AZM Project and designing the Block 3; I hope the PAF is keeping an eye on the development of the SAAB System 2020 design

http://robotpig.net/aerospace-news/saab-new-stealth-fighter-program-_1827

Sweden keeps cost low and develops the cheapest modern fighters from the western world

 

[Gallium Nitride]

Nothing official except the announcement to date.

Sir it's official, there are posters of it in PAC and a research Wing too, I've seen its office myself, and PAC has also hired Civilian engineers and PHds for it

 

[Viking 63]

I think they should go for 2 engines as its more stable and powerful.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I think they should go for 2 engines as its more stable and powerful.

Making it twin engine would also cost more per unit and higher operating/maintenance cost. Though Pak should acquire twin engine 5th gen jets(like FC31, or TFX, or J20 if possible) but they would be limited in numbers. Azm should be single engine medium sized 5th gen platform that together with the twin engine 5th gen should make the high/low combo. Azm can be acquired in greater numbers if it costs less per unit and lower maintenance cost...hence single engine.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Azm should be single engine medium sized 5th gen platform

and how do you know that? are you get this somewhere else or just your opinion, ACM or in the news there is nothing about that whether it will have 2 engine or 1 engine @Cookie Monster

 

[Cookie Monster]

and how do you know that? are you get this somewhere else or just your opinion, ACM or in the news there is nothing about that whether it will have 2 engine or 1 engine @Cookie Monster

Did u read the post u quoted...here let me break it down for u

"Azm SHOULD be single engine medium sized 5th gen platform"

Do u get simple English? Pay close attention to that bold red part of the sentence and next time try to read and comprehend fully before replying.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Did u read the post u quoted...here let me break it down for u

"Azm SHOULD be single engine medium sized 5th gen platform"

Do u get simple English? Pay close attention to that bold red part of the sentence and next time try to read and comprehend fully before replying.

Means that just your opinion/assumptions thank you Mr @Cookie Monster

 

[BRAVO_]

so far one thing common between all operational or atleast active 5th generation projects is ...... they all have twin engines, without a proper knowledge base, how pakistan will make an indigenous single engine 5th generation fighter jet????? i believe J-31 is the best available option though it is facing its own problems yet manufacturer is looking for partners to carry on the development work, if our engineers participate in the its developments stages they can learn so much about design and development of a modern 5th generation jet

 

[Ultima Thule]

so far one thing common between all operational or atleast active 5th generation projects is ...... they all have twin engines,

with the exception of this
F-35

 

[Cookie Monster]

so far one thing common between all operational or atleast active 5th generation projects is ...... they all have twin engines

F35 is single engine

without a proper knowledge base, how pakistan will make an indigenous single engine 5th generation fighter jet????? i believe J-31 is the best available option though it is facing its own problems yet manufacturer is looking for partners to carry on the development work, if our engineers participate in the its developments stages they can learn so much about design and development of a modern 5th generation jet

Pakistan would most likely not build it by itself. I think China's help would be used.

As for Azm being twin engine...well then what's the use of having a separate project when Pakistan can join TFX program or FC31(both are twin engine)?
In my opinion the reason why it's a separate program is bcuz it's gonna be a single engine platform...though I could be wrong and only time will tell.

 

[BRAVO_]

F35 is single engine
As for Azm being twin engine...well then what's the use of having a separate project when Pakistan can join TFX program or FC31?
In my opinion the reason why it's a separate program is bcuz it's gonna be a single engine platform...though I could be wrong and only time will tell.

only the future will tell .... yes example of single engine 5th generation F-35 is there, but i am considering scenarios realistically so far the design and development cost of F-35 crossed 1.5 Trillion Dollars. F-35 is the most expensive, and possibly the most error ridden, project in the history of the United States military but DOD has sunk so much money in it that it was not possible for them to pull back on the other hand our experience about jet engines incase of sino pak joint venture JF-17s .. is limited up to RD-93, J-31 is also using RD-93 but a pair of it, seems like pakistan will not go for a expensive engine because of our economy issues keeping in view the above, what engine options paksitan would have for project azam?

 

[Cookie Monster]

only the future will tell .... yes example of single engine 5th generation F-35 is there, but i am considering scenarios realistically so far the design and development cost of F-35 crossed 1.5 Trillion Dollars. F-35 is the most expensive, and possibly the most error ridden, project in the history of the United States military but DOD has sunk so much money in it that it was not possible for them to pull back on the other hand our experience about jet engines incase of sino pak joint venture JF-17s .. is limited up to RD-93, J-31 is also using RD-93 but a pair of it, seems like pakistan will not go for a expensive engine because of our economy issues keeping in view the above, what engine options paksitan would have for project azam?

The problems that delayed F35 and increased its development costs didn't have much to do with the fact that it was gonna be single engine and not twin engine. Most of the problems were caused by trying to make the platform more of a one size fits all thing. This was to be acquired by multiple nations and they had their own requirements...Israel wanted some Israeli components in the Israeli F35 different from the rest of the F35s...and most complicated of all was the STOVL(F35B). Not to mention that it's a very high end state of the art fighter jet and the countries who built it could afford to make it top of the line...so no expense was spared.

If Azm is made into a single engine fighter...then by the time it goes into mass production, some of PAF's older blocks of F16 and JF17 would be nearing their end. Azm could form the backbone of PAF much like the JF17 does now, as a next gen platform. As for engines Pak would have to rely on China...China has been working on its next gen engines for its 5th gen platforms. I assume Pakistan would rely on China's progress in this field.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The problems that delayed F35 and increased its development costs didn't have much to do with the fact that it was gonna be single engine and not twin engine. Most of the problems were caused by trying to make the platform more of a one size fits all thing. This was to be acquired by multiple nations and they had their own requirements...Israel wanted some Israeli components in the Israeli F35 different from the rest of the F35s...and most complicated of all was the STOVL(F35B). Not to mention that it's a very high end state of the art fighter jet and the countries who built it could afford to make it top of the line...so no expense was spared.

If Azm is made into a single engine fighter...then by the time it goes into mass production, some of PAF's older blocks of F16 and JF17 would be nearing their end. Azm could form the backbone of PAF much like the JF17 does now, as a next gen platform. As for engines Pak would have to rely on China...China has been working on its next gen engines for its 5th gen platforms. I assume Pakistan would rely on China's progress in this field.

Too many cooks spoil the broth...

 

[GriffinsRule]

PAF's LO design WILL BE a twin engine. Anyone willing to bet some $ on it, let me know. Giving F-35 as an example is ignoring some basic facts. The reason is very simple ... there are no options available outside of the US for an engine that could meet the requirement to power a 5th generation fighter that can carry weapons internally. Thus large size and heavy weight basically go hand in hand. If you want to do a comparison, just look at two basic numbers, empty weight and engine thrust.

- F-35 empty weight is more than an F-15C at almost 29,000lbs. That is the same as two JF-17s.
- Its single engine P&W F135 delivers 28,000 lbs of dry thrust, which is 30% more than RD-93s thrust with afterburners! Its thrust with afterburners is 43,000lbf.

So, now that we have just the two very fundamental figures, it is safe to assume that there are no real alternatives but to go with a smaller engine and making up for the power requirement by having two of them. The only option realistically is either more RD-93s or maybe the slightly larger WS-10.