Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[BHarwana]

Project Azm to lead PAF towards Fifth Generation Fighter production

https://timesofislamabad.com/projec...fth-generation-fighter-production/2017/07/07/

They announced after the successful trials of Emie and they are going to build a plane around Emie.

This will be a single engine 5th gen not twin engine.

 

[Basel]

It's tough to say.

There's value on both points:

1. FC-31 is closest to fruition, the PAF can get a FGF in the mid-2020s and early-2030s

2. But there's the Aviation Design Institute which is explicitly tasked to "design" a FGF. The CAS said 60% of its staff are civilian. The CAS also said that the PAF is thinking about "beyond" 5th-gen. Does any of that sound like the statements of someone who is just going to import the FC-31? They could literally have said that the Chinese have advanced considerably and that they'll procure a state-of-the-art 5th-gen fighter off-the-shelf, like they had for the Hangor (II) submarines or even Chinese frigates.

There were some rumors that CAC have shown some 5th gen concepts to PAF other then FC-31 & J-20, CAC can provide new 5th gen design to PAF as both are working very closely since long.

 

[Zhukov]

If we go by ACM's word we will see a prototype by 2023, which tbh doesnt seem feasible. But, then ACM's word has its own weight. Also whats the meaning of word azm? Best of luck for the programme.

Azm Means "Strong Determination for a Purpose"

 

[alphaxyz]

There were some rumors that CAC have shown some 5th gen concepts to PAF other then FC-31 & J-20, CAC can provide new 5th gen design to PAF as both are working very closely since long.

Concept is one thing, but developing engine, radar, material, codes from scratch for a 5th gen aircraft, in 5 years is just too much. And serial production, really, one cant even make a prototype in that period. Even if you are planning for Chinese aircraft or collaboration, I dont see anything concrete coming out before 2028, realistically speaking. Either Pakistan has got something big under its sleeve or the ACM is just bluffing for reasons known to him.

 

[jupiter2007]

TFX HAS LEAST CHANCE TO GET IN NEAR FUTURE, I AM NOT SAYING THAT WE NOT GET TFX AND REMEMBER THAT TFX IS IN THE INITIAL PHASE OF DEVELOPMENT (FIRST FLIGHT WILL BE EXPECTED 2023- 2025) AND MASS PRODUCTION WILL BEGINS IN 2028-2030 TIME-FRAME AND ALSO NOT TO FORGET PAF PREFER MULTIROLE JETS NOT SINGLE MISSION (AIR SUPERIORITY) LIKE TFX, AND ALSO REMEMBER THAT IAF WILL BE GETTING FGFA IN 2023-2025 TIME-FRAME TO COUNTER THAT THREAT J-31 WILL BE MORE FEASIBLE THAN TFX

You think 5th generation development is that easy look to examples (USA started ATF program in 1980 and finish 2005 and similarly JSF program initiated 1992 and completed 2016,J-20 1999-2017) and those countries have a very strong industrial and R&D base, so how it could be possible to assume than PAKISTAN's project "AZM" will be mass produce in lets say 2025-2028, think about it bro

I was talking about the gap between the two projects. I guess Pakistan will continue the production of JF-17 for external customers.

 

[Dash]

So how the arrangements will be?

 

[Ultima Thule]

I was talking about the gap between the two projects. I guess Pakistan will continue the production of JF-17 for external customers.

what gap please explain?

 

[Awan68]

Concept is one thing, but developing engine, radar, material, codes from scratch for a 5th gen aircraft, in 5 years is just too much. And serial production, really, one cant even make a prototype in that period. Even if you are planning for Chinese aircraft or collaboration, I dont see anything concrete coming out before 2028, realistically speaking. Either Pakistan has got something big under its sleeve or the ACM is just bluffing for reasons known to him.

Who told u we just started the process?, it might be going on 5-6 yrs now. Pakistan's establishment is pretty secretive about its strategic projects. They only release a little info when they are well into a process. If the air chief said something , we will take it seriously as Pakistani military officials have a history of giving out professional statements without the involevment of any false pride notions or u realistic drama or chest thumping.

 

[Akasa]

It's tough to say.

There's value on both points:

1. FC-31 is closest to fruition, the PAF can get a FGF in the mid-2020s and early-2030s

2. But there's the Aviation Design Institute which is explicitly tasked to "design" a FGF. The CAS said 60% of its staff are civilian. The CAS also said that the PAF is thinking about "beyond" 5th-gen. Does any of that sound like the statements of someone who is just going to import the FC-31? They could literally have said that the Chinese have advanced considerably and that they'll procure a state-of-the-art 5th-gen fighter off-the-shelf, like they had for the Hangor (II) submarines or even Chinese frigates.

I think you forgot one tidbit: that the FC-31 will require a co-funder and that any purchase thereof certainly will not be "off-the-shelf", so to speak.

 

[I S I]

You know I predicted this kind of thing about a year ago

Oh wow you must be that @Hassan Guy or something. Only he can predict these things.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think you forgot one tidbit: that the FC-31 will require a co-funder and that any purchase thereof certainly will not be "off-the-shelf", so to speak.

That was when it was an export-oriented project. But apparently the PLAN is now interested in the FC-31, so it may not require exports or an outside partner to come to fruition.

 

[Akasa]

That was when it was an export-oriented project. But apparently the PLAN is now interested in the FC-31, so it may not require exports or an outside partner to come to fruition.

I don't think so. There isn't evidence so far that the PLAN has indeed decided to induct it.

 

[jupiter2007]

what gap please explain?

We have 100 JF-17 now and we are planning to build 250. If we have the capacity to build 25 to 30 planes per year, It will take us between 2022-2024 to build another 150 JF-17.
According to some senior members J-31P will most likely go in production between 2026 - 2028.
What is going to happens to the production line, technical stuff, technicians and engineers..Until 5 gen fighter project is ready for production?

 

[Ultima Thule]

We have 100 JF-17 now and we are planning to build 250. If we have the capacity to build 25 to 30 planes per year, It will take us between 2022-2024 to build another 150 JF-17.
According to some senior members J-31P will most likely go in production between 2026 - 2028.
What is going to happens to the production line, technical stuff, technicians and engineers..Until 5 gen fighter project is ready for production?

we are currently building 16 planes per year and target are 25 per year, and J-31P is just a rumors not a confirmed news either by PAF or China by some senior members , this doesn't mean if we will get 5th gen jet is ready for production PAF will get rid of JF-17 or (grounded) there production lines will stop in near future but this doesn't mean their technical staff, technicians and engineers will become usesless, you know the word MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADATION just like F-16 evolution bro

 

[My-Analogous]

not your problem, i am free to convey my posts with CAP or without CAPS,who are you to stop me?

Brother Cap used for shouting and lower case for general. What he said is right, in other words why are you shouting?

Concept is one thing, but developing engine, radar, material, codes from scratch for a 5th gen aircraft, in 5 years is just too much. And serial production, really, one cant even make a prototype in that period. Even if you are planning for Chinese aircraft or collaboration, I dont see anything concrete coming out before 2028, realistically speaking. Either Pakistan has got something big under its sleeve or the ACM is just bluffing for reasons known to him.

It is not just 5 years. This project was initiated in 2011 and i thing documentation and planning is done and this is implementation process and i thing 5 years is enough time for prototype.
http://*********************/forum/...stealth-fighter-program-j-2x-confirmed.24358/