Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Safriz]

Project Azm... official name NGFA

 

[Ultima Thule]

View attachment 619658
Project Azm... official name NGFA

psot some thing new we already know this

 

[Cookie Monster]

thank you ! i was wondering about it. i am sure there must be some turkish, pakistan, china and turkish aspect of producing jet engine in this realm. that angle might be a possibility.
Ukraine has more experience in building engines outside Russia. thoughts?

My opinion on this is that currently China would be a better choice as far as the engine for Azm NGF is concerned.

The amount of money China is pumping in R&D of jet engines and the scale at which they are going to manufacture them(for their own needs and for exports) make it a safer option...as opposed to Ukraine that struggled to deliver on its tank orders to Thailand. No doubt Ukraine has a lot to offer but Pak with its limited budget can't afford to play a hand with high risk.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Sir that’s what has been mentioned above. China had committed to 200 Super-7s aka JF-17s at the onset of the project. 150 were committed to by the PAF which will now be enlarged to 250. When the Chinese backed out the per unit cost increased along with multiple other factors like commonality of Platform, PLAAF input etc. Which had left PAF in a limbo. There were multitude of other factors which can’t probably be mentioned here. This particular experience has left PAF scarred on not to commit to any Non-PLAAF A/C or any project which is not committed to by their own Military. Cost mitigation being one of the reasons and continuous upgrades by the Chinese for their own Hardware another. Connection to the Chinese Fighter Eco System will be one of the objectives in any future acquisitions be it J-10C or J-20(subject to export) or any other Chinese A/C. Coming over to AZM from the Knowledge that I have, there is a major Chinese Expertise coming in, along with that Turkish and A European Defence Player. PAF is vying for Total independence by this project not dependent on any single country/vendor that’s what Thunder has taught us. Slowly and gradually we aim to reach there. As far as short to medium term timeframe we might see a 5G Plane with us before AZM. AZM is long term.

I guess this sorts us out as to who our mentioned European friends are...

 

[Trango Towers]

My opinion on this is that currently China would be a better choice as far as the engine for Azm NGF is concerned.

The amount of money China is pumping in R&D of jet engines and the scale at which they are going to manufacture them(for their own needs and for exports) make it a safer option...as opposed to Ukraine that struggled to deliver on its tank orders to Thailand. No doubt Ukraine has a lot to offer but Pak with its limited budget can't afford to play a hand with high risk.

What makes you qualified more than PAF for such an opinion. This is an organisation that has built a fighter aircraft when everyone doubted it. Its an organisation the protects the borders when on 0aper they are sitting ducks and you think they have no idea what they are doing?

 

[War Historian]

I think people are reading too much into a model..it's just a 'generic' mockup of a fifth gen fighter, that's all. What would be really interesting to know is how some of the technologies which have been touted as part of project Azm will be developed, such as the 'directed energy' weapons. Not even the US or Russians have progressed that far.

Sir ,
Off the topic, we completed centrifuges before the American , Chinese and Russians.
When only four countries consortium was able to successfully completed their centrifuges at Urenco.
So any thing is possible, who knows how long ago we had start the work on direct energy weapons.
Never underestimate Pakistan and Israel. Both have large size enemies but both countries doing miracles only in a cost effective manners mostly. So any thing possible in this world of advance weapons technology. Thanks

 

[ziaulislam]

The model is of TFX quite clearly. No AZM design has been released or spy shotted so far in any shape or form..

isnt TFX that i have seen..but doesnt mean it is AZM either..it could just be a concpet model..!

 

[Cookie Monster]

What makes you qualified more than PAF for such an opinion. This is an organisation that has built a fighter aircraft when everyone doubted it. Its an organisation the protects the borders when on 0aper they are sitting ducks and you think they have no idea what they are doing?

Do u struggle with the English language? I wrote it in very plain and simple terms so it shouldn't be hard to understand.

Since u r an elite member I will stop here and just say read what I wrote AGAIN and then carefully look at how u responded.

 

[The Raven]

Sir ,
Off the topic, we completed centrifuges before the American , Chinese and Russians.
When only four countries consortium was able to successfully completed their centrifuges at Urenco.
So any thing is possible, who knows how long ago we had start the work on direct energy weapons.
Never underestimate Pakistan and Israel. Both have large size enemies but both countries doing miracles only in a cost effective manners mostly. So any thing possible in this world of advance weapons technology. Thanks

Seriously?! You're comparing uranium enrichment centrifuges to directed energy weapons? That's because the US, Chinese and Russians had far more sophisticated methods of enriching uranium, at a greater scale. The centrifuge method is the 'poor mans' approach. I'd also like to remind you that the centrifuge design we used was stolen from the Europeans, so not quite sure what's so great about this achievement.

 

[The Raven]

What makes you qualified more than PAF for such an opinion. This is an organisation that has built a fighter aircraft when everyone doubted it. Its an organisation the protects the borders when on 0aper they are sitting ducks and you think they have no idea what they are doing?

Did the PAF perform the R&D for avionics and radar? Did the PAF build the engine? Did the PAF design and build the weapon systems? Does the PAF even to this day construct the entire airframe from scratch? No. Once the PAF can show they can design and build the entire value chain, they will always need to rely on collaboration with third parties, most likely the Chinese, as they're our only reliable source of hardware. Even when we diversify, e.g. the T129 deal, we suffer indirectly from Western politics, and then have to go back to the Chinese for alternative solutions.

 

[StormBreaker]

The model is of TFX quite clearly. No AZM design has been released or spy shotted so far in any shape or form..

Until we have no concrete evidence that PAF is actually PARTICIPATING in TFX AS A FULL PARTNER, Who in the right kind would erect a small scale model of a foreign Program when you yourself have a program at home which has comoleted preliminary design stage and had been going through further tests since 2017.

Sounds quite the AZM to me, Why would we throw off PAF F-16/JF-17 models in a meeting with Ukraine/Foreign Air force ?
Are we thekaidars of TFX ? The highest form of pride for a nation is it’s own developed item. Let’s say tommorow we buy F-35 or J-20/31, that would still be a “BUY” not a develop. PAF would still proudly keep its thunder model on the table upon official visits because that signifies our worth and capacity. Only thing that can replace that “Self developed” pride from Thunders is none other than AZM, Hence why I think this is not TFX or any other but AZM Fighter

And Please, don’t bring in the usual Ummah or paK-tUrK bhAibHAi.

Think realistically, to the scale of probabilities.

@Trailer23 Kyun bhai ? Aren’t we thaikedars of Turkey and TFX ? Throwing off our national pride Thunder from table model and replacing it with tFx because AZM is a nobody ? I agree with your POV as well about the manufacturer of Scale models although stand colors don’t matter much in this case.

@Dazzler just like me earlier was right to point out the apparent differences of this model in display vs TFX. The nose of TFX seems fatter, AZM’s canopy seems taller, Mid fuselage is quite thinner as compared to TFX.

Plus, Ukraine is no small deal here like Nigeria or Sri Lanka or Azerbaijan. Ukraine is a very important contributor to the world of aviation even post Soviet union. They are manufacturers themselves. Why the hell would we even think of portraying ourselves low by just putting up foreign model when an important delegation visits to us especially from Ukraine ?

My guess is definitely Ukraine is getting involved with AZM or maybe in some sort of industrial complex building for PAC or maybe cooperating just for powerplant.

@aliyusuf @HRK

 

[War Historian]

Seriously?! You're comparing uranium enrichment centrifuges to directed energy weapons? That's because the US, Chinese and Russians had far more sophisticated methods of enriching uranium, at a greater scale. The centrifuge method is the 'poor mans' approach. I'd also like to remind you that the centrifuge design we used was stolen from the Europeans, so not quite sure what's so great about this achievement.[/QUOTE

Really do you think Centrifuges poor mans approach?
Ok then carry on your theory. Do you know cost of research and development of centrifuge method ? How many billions of dollars UK Germany, Holland spent on this method. and how quickly it takes Pakistan to its goal of weapon grade uranium. And by the way learning from some institute and return back home and produce similar thing is not called stolen. Is called Learning skill in good manners, in bad manners you can say copying the original but calling stolen you have blown my mind. The other methods used by india and some other countries was to recycling process of used fuel rods of nuclear power plant. Do u think its advance method ? Than good bye from me.

 

[StormBreaker]

Seriously?! You're comparing uranium enrichment centrifuges to directed energy weapons? That's because the US, Chinese and Russians had far more sophisticated methods of enriching uranium, at a greater scale. The centrifuge method is the 'poor mans' approach. I'd also like to remind you that the centrifuge design we used was stolen from the Europeans, so not quite sure what's so great about this achievement.

Really do you think Centrifuges poor mans approach?
Ok then carry on your theory. Do you know cost of research and development of centrifuge method ? How many billions of dollars UK Germany, Holland spent on this method. and how quickly it takes Pakistan to its goal of weapon grade uranium. And by the way learning from some institute and return back home and produce similar thing is not called stolen. Is called Learning skill in good manners, in bad manners you can say copying the original but calling stolen you have blown my mind. The other methods used by india and some other countries was to recycling process of used fuel rods of nuclear power plant. Do u think its advance method ? Than good bye from me.

Focus on AZM and not uranium and all please

 

[War Historian]

Focus on AZM and not uranium and all please

Ok sir sorry for the topic posts

 

[aliyusuf]

Until we have no concrete evidence that PAF is actually PARTICIPATING in TFX AS A FULL PARTNER, Who in the right kind would erect a small scale model of a foreign Program when you yourself have a program at home which has comoleted preliminary design stage and had been going through further tests since 2017.

Sounds quite the AZM to me, Why would we throw off PAF F-16/JF-17 models in a meeting with Ukraine/Foreign Air force ?
Are we thekaidars of TFX ? The highest form of pride for a nation is it’s own developed item. Let’s say tommorow we buy F-35 or J-20/31, that would still be a “BUY” not a develop. PAF would still proudly keep its thunder model on the table upon official visits because that signifies our worth and capacity. Only thing that can replace that “Self developed” pride from Thunders is none other than AZM, Hence why I think this is not TFX or any other but AZM Fighter

And Please, don’t bring in the usual Ummah or paK-tUrK bhAibHAi.

Think realistically, to the scale of probabilities.

@Trailer23 Kyun bhai ? Aren’t we thaikedars of Turkey and TFX ? Throwing off our national pride Thunder from table model and replacing it with tFx because AZM is a nobody ? I agree with your POV as well about the manufacturer of Scale models although stand colors don’t matter much in this case.

@Dazzler just like me earlier was right to point out the apparent differences of this model in display vs TFX. The nose of TFX seems fatter, AZM’s canopy seems taller, Mid fuselage is quite thinner as compared to TFX.

Plus, Ukraine is no small deal here like Nigeria or Sri Lanka or Azerbaijan. Ukraine is a very important contributor to the world of aviation even post Soviet union. They are manufacturers themselves. Why the hell would we even think of portraying ourselves low by just putting up foreign model when an important delegation visits to us especially from Ukraine ?

My guess is definitely Ukraine is getting involved with AZM or maybe in some sort of industrial complex building for PAC or maybe cooperating just for powerplant.

@aliyusuf @HRK

In my guestimate, the model is a clue to the envisioned look and design of the NGFA of Project Azm. Gifting of a scaled model of TFX by the Turkish brothers and the visit of a Ukrainian delegation, with the alleged NGFA scaled model in the background, all seems to point towards a positioning for a future collaboration and cooperation of sorts between the three. But rest assured Chinese help will be paramount in the actual making of the major subsystems and the making of the first prototype.