Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Path-Finder]

Damn this thread is fast approaching its second anniversary, yet the topic still remains Hott!

 

[Marker]

If Pakistani 5th gen jet aircraft is housing twin engines, then these may be no other than RD-93MAs (may be further upgraded).

To gain more stealth, its fuselage may be similar to YF-23. Specially the engine intake housing and exhaust nozzle housings.

Wings and other control surfaces will be designed to have optimum speed, agility and reduced RCS.

 

[Metal 0-1]

If Pakistani 5th gen jet aircraft is housing twin engines, then these may be no other than RD-93MAs (may be further upgraded).

To gain more stealth, its fuselage may be similar to YF-23. Specially the engine intake housing and exhaust nozzle housings.

Wings and other control surfaces will be designed to have optimum speed, agility and reduced RCS.

RD-93MA seriously???

 

[maverick1977]

why cant it be WS15 ? two will give it super cruise capability ..

 

[Marker]

RD-93MA seriously???

why cant it be WS15 ? two will give it super cruise capability ..

It is best available option - using a proven non-western engine.
PAF is already using RD-93s and their air officers have acknowledged engine's satisfactory performance and durability.
Furthermore, PAF had already established overhauling facility for RD-93.
Two RD-93 MA producing around 2 x 54 kN dry thrust and 2 x 93 kN wet thrust is enough power for 5 th gen MCA.

 

[Metal 0-1]

It is best available option - using a proven non-western engine.
PAF is already using RD-93s and their air officers have acknowledged engine's satisfactory performance and durability.
Furthermore, PAF had already established overhauling facility for RD-93.
Two RD-93 MA producing around 2 x 54 kN dry thrust and 2 x 93 kN wet thrust is enough power for 5 th gen MCA.

I thought we were talking about a 5th gen fighter.

 

[Marker]

I thought we were talking about a 5th gen fighter.

Lockheed Martin defines fifth-generation jet fighter as having all-aspect stealth even when armed, low-probability-of-intercept radar (LPIR), high-performance airframes, advanced avionics features, and highly integrated computer systems capable of networking with other elements within the battlespace for situation awareness.

PAF may also focus on above characteristics, as far as engine is concerned, PAF will definitely go for a western engine (if available) or RD-93MA. Since ACM revealed that the new 5th gen aircraft is twin engine instead single engine, possibility of housing RD-93MA is more certain.

 

[Armchair]

Wish there was a WS-10 with a shortened combustion chamber. The anular combustors of these engines don't need to be that big for modern combat. If you reduce the anular combustor volume by half, you can easily fit the WS10 into the jft and use it for azm.
@JamD thoughts?

 

[Figaro]

If Pakistani 5th gen jet aircraft is housing twin engines, then these may be no other than RD-93MAs (may be further upgraded).

To gain more stealth, its fuselage may be similar to YF-23. Specially the engine intake housing and exhaust nozzle housings.

Wings and other control surfaces will be designed to have optimum speed, agility and reduced RCS.

RD-93MAs would be woefully insufficient for the AZM.

Wish there was a WS-10 with a shortened combustion chamber. The anular combustors of these engines don't need to be that big for modern combat. If you reduce the anular combustor volume by half, you can easily fit the WS10 into the jft and use it for azm.
@JamD thoughts?

This involves a substantial engine design change. You are going to have to wait for the WS-19 to come out.

why cant it be WS15 ? two will give it super cruise capability ..

Depends on what weight class the AZM will be. If it is a heavy air superiority fighter like the J-20, F-22, or Su-57, then most likely the engine of choice would be the WS-15. For something in a smaller/lighter class (e.g. FC-31), the WS-19 is there.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

If Pakistani 5th gen jet aircraft is housing twin engines, then these may be no other than RD-93MAs (may be further upgraded).

To gain more stealth, its fuselage may be similar to YF-23. Specially the engine intake housing and exhaust nozzle housings.

Wings and other control surfaces will be designed to have optimum speed, agility and reduced RCS.

Russian engines won’t be a good option, they require high maintenance.

 

[CIA Mole]

Pakistan needs > $3T GDP to sustain a 5th gen program

 

[Marker]

RD-93MAs would be woefully insufficient for the AZM.

A medium weight design - maximum take-off weight (MTOW) around +25,000 kg housing 2 RD-93MA producing total thrust of +100 kN dry thrust and +180 kN wet thrust. Is it not enough?

Furthermore, this is most reliable available option. Continuous supply of western engines and their spares cannot be guaranteed. Chinese engines are still at evolving phase. None of Chinese engines provide service life more than 3000 hrs. Further more reliability is uncertain. Whereas, PAF had flown RD-93s for more than 7000 hrs.
According to Air Commodore Mehmood engines are solid and reliable: “We’ve flown 7,000 hours with the engine and we haven’t had any problems”, he said.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Lockheed Martin defines fifth-generation jet fighter as having all-aspect stealth even when armed, low-probability-of-intercept radar (LPIR), high-performance airframes, advanced avionics features, and highly integrated computer systems capable of networking with other elements within the battlespace for situation awareness.

PAF may also focus on above characteristics, as far as engine is concerned, PAF will definitely go for a western engine (if available) or RD-93MA. Since ACM revealed that the new 5th gen aircraft is twin engine instead single engine, possibility of housing RD-93MA is more certain.

What's the point of making a next gen modern fighter jet if you are using older generation components.
4th Gen Engine is not a good option for a 5th Gen platform. RD-93 is a enormous heat source. PAF won't be looking west for engine. They will get their engine from China.

Please, just get over this.

 

[JamD]

Wish there was a WS-10 with a shortened combustion chamber. The anular combustors of these engines don't need to be that big for modern combat. If you reduce the anular combustor volume by half, you can easily fit the WS10 into the jft and use it for azm.
@JamD thoughts?

I don't know enough about jet engines to comment on that, sorry.

 

[MIRauf]

PAF should have logged 100K Hours on RD-93 by now, not 7K hours or you are quoting a very old report.

Block-1 50 units, in around 10 years at 200 hrs / year = 2000 hrs / plane * 50 = 100K+ hrs just on Block-1s, now add 50% for Block-II and you should cross the threshold of 150K+ hrs.

Perhaps he meant 7K hours on test platforms, but I am just guessing at this point.

On other note, RD-93 will unlikely give the AZM a Super Cruise ability which is one of the desired attribute of 5th Gen, although one can get by without it.