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President to seek full membership of Pakistan in SCO

^^ Leon Panneta, Secretary of Defence of the United States, is in India and he said that they will 'provide India will the best defence weapons'....? Almost every other day or week, we are watching top Western leaders traveling to India....

I don't think this will impress Russia and China is already sort of an enemy to them....
 
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^^ Leon Panneta, Secretary of Defence of the United States, is in India and he said that they will 'provide India will the best defence weapons'....? Almost every other day or week, we are watching top Western leaders traveling to India....

I don't think this will impress Russia and China is already sort of an enemy to them....

Its only some silly Indians on here the forum think they are going to act as proxy for Americans and at the same time will be allowed to undermine an anti American anti nato grouping
 
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Russia and China eye role in Afghanistan and Pakistan

With the United States and Nato set to leave Afghanistan over the next two years, power is the region is shifting. Writer Ahmed Rashid reports on Russia and China's attempts to capitalise on the decline of American influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

As United States troops prepare to leave Afghanistan in 2014, a major regional shift is underway.

With the prospect of a decline in US influence in the region in sight, Russia and China are reaching out to Pakistan and Afghanistan in a bid to improve economic ties and to secure their southern borders against the spread of Islamic fundamentalism.

The presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan, Hamid Karzai and Asif Ali Zardari, are in Beijing this week for the summit meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), which is led by China and Russia.

With the US set to leave Afghanistan and bad relations between Islamabad and Washington DC continuing to fester, the SCO has taken on a new lease of life.

Economic help
China and Afghanistan will sign a strategic agreement at the SCO, elevating their relationship as China shops for raw material and oil exploration contracts in mineral-rich Afghanistan. China has already secured some oil and copper mining concessions.

Until now, China has carried out few development projects in Afghanistan and is unlikely to help fund the country's army and police, as the US would like.

But all that could change once the Americans leave. Xu Feihong, China's ambassador to Kabul says that ''China is the most reliable friend of Afghanistan".

Likewise Russia, both through the SCO and bilaterally, is willing to offer major help to Afghanistan such as improving the Salang Tunnel highway, the critical link road between Kabul and the north which the Soviets built in the 1970s.

After years of poor relations, Russia has also taken a major initiative with Pakistan.

Moscow sent its special representative and long-time regional expert Zamir Kabulov to Islamabad to suss out what the Pakistanis want and offer economic help, such as refurbishing Pakistan's one and only steel mill, built with Russian help in the 1970s.

Mixed messages
China is already Pakistan's closest and most reliable ally.

In early June, Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi visited Islamabad and pledged to stand by Pakistan in its tensions with the Americans.

He pleased the government by echoing Pakistan's refrain that the world should recognize Pakistan's ''huge sacrifices'' in the war on terror and help safeguard its sovereignty, rather than question Pakistan's intentions as the US has done recently.

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If Pakistan can take steps against home grown extremism it will do much to convince Russia and China that it deserves help to move out of the American orbit.”

Moreover, China is hoping to exploit Afghanistan's mineral resources once the war is over and knows that Pakistan could play a crucial role. It could well hire Pakistani companies as junior partners in its mineral explorations.

Until now, Mr Zardari has been looking to China to help bail him out of Pakistan's severe economic mess but China never gives cash, loans, budgetary support, development funds or humanitarian funds to other countries like Western governments do.

Instead, it carries out major projects that help the recipient but provide strategic spin offs for China too.

Despite his words of support, officials say Mr Yang also warned Pakistan's leaders not to break with the US and to avoid taking hardline positions regarding the US and Nato in Afghanistan.

For the past seven months, Pakistan has refused to reopen the main route for Nato supplies that runs from Karachi to the Afghan border. Talks with the US on the issue have so far failed.

Fearing fundamentalists
Both China and Russia will be happy to see US troops leave Afghanistan, but they are equally worried about the Taliban and other extremist groups penetrating Xinjiang province in southern China and the Central Asian republics, whose national security is very much in the hands of Russia.

China is deeply concerned by the long-running crisis in Pakistan, fearing that it may lead to a strengthening of Islamic fundamentalism.

Beijing is worried that any threat to Pakistan from internal insurgency or secessionist movements would only bolster its regional rival India.

So, for the first time ever China has held high-level discussions with US officials that have focused on the crisis in Pakistan and how both countries could nudge Pakistani leaders to do the right thing.


Afghan President Hamid Karzai (L) and Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari are being courted by Russia and China
The US is also asking the Chinese help persuade the Pakistani military to be more helpful in Afghanistan and end the sanctuaries the Taliban enjoy.

Both the Chinese and Russians are worried about the threat posed by the Taliban and al-Qaeda themselves.

In an unprecedented move, over the past six months Chinese officials issued three strong statements rebuking Pakistan for not reining in Uighur extremists who are training with Pakistani extremist groups and fighting with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Uighurs are Chinese Muslims from Xinjiang province and some are involved in an independence struggle against China.

'Tectonic shift'
Pakistan's military rushed to try and detain the Uighur militants. According to diplomats at the United Nations, China has been quietly telling the Pakistan military that it must end havens for all militant groups on its soil - a message that has been publicly taken up by Nato.

Russia also makes no bones about the fact that it sees Pakistan as harbouring Central Asian militant groups such as the Islamic Movement for Uzbekistan and Islamic Jihad.

These groups - which have been based in Pakistan's tribal areas - are now trying to enter Tajikistan and Uzbekistan from their new bases in northern Afghanistan. Diplomats at the UN say they are being aided and abetted by militant Pakistani groups based, including Lashkar e-Toiba.

Russia's envoy Zamir Kabulov, who has long experience with the Pakistani military's backing of Islamic fundamentalist groups (he served in the Soviet embassy in Kabul in the 1980s), raised this issue with the Pakistani government.

Russia sees itself as the guardian of the Central Asian republics and although it is anxious to see an end to US bases in that region, its resumption of the sole security role in Central Asia will depend on how Pakistan deals with such extremist groups.

If Pakistan can take steps against home-grown extremism, it will do much to convince Russia and China that it deserves help to move out of the American orbit.

But with the long-running political and economic meltdown in Pakistan, there is little chance that the government can act soon.

Nevertheless, a shift in the tectonic plates in the region is taking place. Pakistan and Afghanistan can either take quick advantage of these changes or revert back into chaos.

BBC News - Russia and China eye role in Afghanistan and Pakistan
 
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Its only some silly Indians on here the forum think they are going to act as proxy for Americans and at the same time will be allowed to undermine an anti American anti nato grouping

Here is the answer

China Denies Possibility of SCO Evolving into Military Bloc

China on Wednesday denied the possibility that the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) would evolve into a military and political bloc.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin made the remarks at a daily press conference in response to media reports likening the SCO to an eastern NATO.

Liu said that the charter of the SCO determined its nature of non-alliance, non-confrontation, not targeting at any third country or organization and openness to outside parties.

He said the robust development of the SCO lies in its quest for a new model of partnership for regional organization, which conforms to the current trend of peace and development as well as the people of the SCO member states' common desire for peace, development and cooperation.

The SCO has created the Shanghai Spirit that features mutual trust and benefit, equality, consultation, respect for cultural diversity and the pursuit of common development, he said.

Adhering to the ideal of pursuing peace, promoting development and resolving disputes through cooperation, the SCO has been sticking to the principle of a non-aligned national relationship, he said.

The SCO was founded in Shanghai on June 15, 2001, and currently has six full members -- China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Mongolia, Iran, Pakistan and India are four observer states, and its dialogue partners include Belarus and Sri Lanka.

China Denies Possibility of SCO Evolving into Military Bloc

The only country that would want SCO to be a military block is Russia, because it has nothing to loose but everything to gain. China is too intertwined with US to anger US
 
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Russians still haven't forget what Pakistanis did to them in Afghan War. Just wait for Russian revenge.
 
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Can Pakistanis members stop treating SCO as a god send from heaven that will end all they troubles in a instance when full member.
 
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Russians still haven't forget what Pakistanis did to them in Afghan War. Just wait for Russian revenge. :D

Stop living in 1980. The world is very different today. Russia was one of the first countries to support Pakistan after U.S. attacked Pakistan and killed Pakistani soldiers. Russia-Pakistan relations today is in an all time high, and Russia already said it would support Pakistan to be given full membership in SCO.

The world in 2012:

China, Pakistan, Russia, Iran

vs

U.S., India, and Israel
 
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Stop living in 1980. The world is very different today. Russia was one of the first countries to support Pakistan after U.S. attacked Pakistan and killed Pakistani soldiers. Russia-Pakistan relations today is in an all time high, and Russia already said it would support Pakistan to be given full membership in SCO.

The world in 2012:

China, Pakistan, Russia, Iran

vs

U.S., India, and Israel

Little correction here
The world in 2012:
Pakistan
vs
NATO

watcher:- India, Iran, Arab League, China, Russia, Israel. :D
 
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Here is the answer

China Denies Possibility of SCO Evolving into Military Bloc

China on Wednesday denied the possibility that the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) would evolve into a military and political bloc.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin made the remarks at a daily press conference in response to media reports likening the SCO to an eastern NATO.

Liu said that the charter of the SCO determined its nature of non-alliance, non-confrontation, not targeting at any third country or organization and openness to outside parties.

He said the robust development of the SCO lies in its quest for a new model of partnership for regional organization, which conforms to the current trend of peace and development as well as the people of the SCO member states' common desire for peace, development and cooperation.

The SCO has created the Shanghai Spirit that features mutual trust and benefit, equality, consultation, respect for cultural diversity and the pursuit of common development, he said.

Adhering to the ideal of pursuing peace, promoting development and resolving disputes through cooperation, the SCO has been sticking to the principle of a non-aligned national relationship, he said.

The SCO was founded in Shanghai on June 15, 2001, and currently has six full members -- China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Mongolia, Iran, Pakistan and India are four observer states, and its dialogue partners include Belarus and Sri Lanka.

China Denies Possibility of SCO Evolving into Military Bloc

The only country that would want SCO to be a military block is Russia, because it has nothing to loose but everything to gain. China is too intertwined with US to anger US

Well of course we know that Chinese tend to be humble and underplay their hand. Unlike some that we know. Why should they allow west and their proxies know what's coming until it is too late.

Russians still haven't forget what Pakistanis did to them in Afghan War. Just wait for Russian revenge.

Yea rite. Ask Putin he's coming to Pakistan soon

Can Pakistanis members stop treating SCO as a god send from heaven that will end all they troubles in a instance when full member.

You mean they way you Indians are sycophantic and constantly ingratiation your self to being white man's proxy? You hoping America will sort out Pakistan and China for you??
 
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Little correction here
The world in 2012:
Pakistan
vs
NATO

watcher:- India, Iran, Arab League, China, Russia, Israel. :D

Yea rite, You wish. Keep dreaming America will sort out Pakistan for Indians lol

Even Zardari, Musharraf came to India in the past. :woot:

They did not contemplate India as a geo strategic ally. Whereas Putin sees Pakistan as a geo strategic ally
 
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Yea rite, You wish. Keep dreaming America will sort out Pakistan for Indians lol

They are sorting it out for themselves, not for Indians, we are just watching the show. :D
 
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Here is the answer

China Denies Possibility of SCO Evolving into Military Bloc


Nope here is the real answer:

Jun 7, 2012


China and Russia flex muscle at the West

By Brendan O'Reilly

Beijing and Moscow will send a clear message to the world at the ongoing Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) summit. The leaderships of China and Russia have drawn two lines in the sand - an unequivocal "No" to bombing Iran, and another unambiguous "No" to regime change in Syria brought about through a Western bombing campaign.

Russian President Vladimir Putin arrived in Beijing yesterday to start his first overseas visit after he was elected as the Russian leader again, which highlights the importance he attaches to his country's relations with China. And in Beijing, no less, he is scheduled to hold talks with his Iranian counterpart, Mahmud Ahmadinejad. This is indicative of the joint Russian and Chinese geopolitical strategy.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Wenmin spelled out the shared Russian and Chinese viewpoint on the ongoing crisis in Syria:" On the Syrian issue, China and Russia have stayed in close communication and coordination both in New York, Moscow and Beijing ... The position of both sides is clear to all - there should be an immediate end to violence and the political dialogue process should be launched as soon as possible".
Besides lauding Sino-Russian cooperation on the issue, Liu explicitly made clear the two nations' consistent objection to the use of force to resolve the Syrian issue: "China and Russia share the same position on these points and both sides oppose external intervention into the Syrian situation and oppose regime change by force." [1]

The gauntlet has been thrown down. China and Russia will not authorize the use of force against the Syrian government in the United Nations Security Council.

Furthermore, Beijing and Moscow are playing defense against perceived Western militarism and aggression. In order to understand their shared interests and methods on the global stage, it is useful to examine the origins of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization itself.

The SCO grew out of the "Shanghai Five", a block of nations formed in 1996 that included China, Russia, and the newly independent states of Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan. The initial goal of this group was to relax border tensions between the member states. In June 2001, it was expanded to include Uzbekistan, and was renamed the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. The central aims of the new grouping were to combat the so-called "Three Evils" of terrorism, separatism, and extremism.

The focus on the "Three Evils" is suggestive of the fundamentally conservative nature of Russian and Chinese strategy. Russia and China contain large tracts of land inhabited by occasionally restless ethnic minorities. Russia, China, and the "-stans" all face internal challenges to their rule from political Islamists. The essential mission of the SCO is therefore a perpetuation of the political status quo in Central Asia.

From these rather humble beginnings, the SCO has become a quasi-military and political alliance. Beginning in 2003, member states have held joint military exercises, called "Peace Missions". Under the auspices of the SCO, China and Russia held their first ever joint military exercises in 2005. The latest and the largest of these "Peace Missions" saw over 5,000 Russian, Chinese, Kyrgyz, Tajik, and Kazak soldiers take part in joint drills within Kazakhstan.

Mongolia, India, Pakistan and Iran are, for the time being, "observers" in the SCO. Iran formally requested admission as a full member in 2008, but its membership has been postponed due to ongoing UN sanctions against Iran. Belarus and Sri Lanka have signed on as "dialogue partners."

There have been worries in the United States and Western Europe that the SCO may be developing into a nascent anti-Western alliance. Although such a development has been denied by the SCO's member states, there are signs that such a coalition may be forming. However, such an alliance would not be aggressive in nature. The member states of the SCO cooperate with one another, in no small part, in order to prevent effective Western pressure for changes in domestic policies and leadership.

The two heavyweights
Russia and China are obviously the most significant constituent states of the SCO. These countries, despite a long history of mutual distrust and conflict, have a common interest in resisting American hegemony.

Russia feels threatened by the continued eastern expansion of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). The former Soviet states of eastern Europe are viewed as Russia's sphere of influence. Russia is particularly concerned about the potential NATO expansion into Ukraine and Georgia. This expansion, if enacted, would require the United States and its European allies to go to war with Russia in the event of an outbreak of military hostilities between Russia and these neighboring states.

Meanwhile, China is concerned about the US pivot towards Asia. Continued arms sales to Taiwan and support for the Philippines in the ongoing standoff in the South China Sea are particular areas of concern.

Both Russia and China feel threatened by the continued development and deployment of anti-missile technology by the United States. These two powers, particularly Russia, fear that this defensive system is aimed at challenging their strategic influence with regards to the doctrine of Mutually-Assured Destruction. American claims that this technology is aimed at alleged "rouge states" such as Iran, have been met with skepticism.

Besides these strategic concerns, both leaderships are wary of what they perceive as ongoing attempts by the United States to interfere in the domestic politics of the their two nations.

Middle Eastern affairs

Ahmadinejad's scheduled appearance at the SCO summit comes at a crucial time. The ongoing standoff over Iran's nuclear program, and the resulting regional tensions and fears, are matters of grave concern to the Russian and Chinese leadership.

The recent round of talks in Baghdad between Iran and the "Five Plus One" group (the five permanent members of the Security Council plus Germany) resulted in little more than an agreement to schedule another meeting in Moscow later this month. The sticking point of negotiations is the continued insistence of the Western powers for Iran to halt the enrichment of uranium to over 20%, and Iran's refusal to do so.

The benchmark price for Brent crude has shot up 18% over the past year, largely on speculative fears of a bombing campaign against Iran and Iran's capabilities for regional retaliation. [2] China is heavily dependent on imported oil, and the Chinese economy suffers when the oil price increases. In the event of an Israeli and/or American strike on Iran, and a subsequent Iranian blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, the price of oil will increase dramatically. China's impressive economic growth over the last three decades may come to a sudden halt, with unpredictable social and political consequences.

Russia's objections to military intervention in Iran are primarily strategic, but also contain an economic dimension. Iran is a bridge between South Asia, the Persian Gulf, and Central Asia. Iran borders the former Soviet states of Turkmenistan, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Any attack on Iran will have unpredictable consequences in an area Russia views at its sphere of influence.

The Russian government has been adamant in its opposition to any military action against Iran. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov, recently reiterated these warnings. Besides predicting a "negative effect for the security of many countries" in the event of an attack on Iran, he said there would be, "dire consequences for the global economy due to unavoidable increase of prices for hydrocarbons, which will slow exit from recession". [3]

China and Russia share political and economic reasons to object to a potential attack on Iran. As usual, their shared motives are essentially conservative - both nations want to avoid geopolitical and economic hazards.

Cooperation against what is perceived as Western adventurism in the Middle East extends beyond Iran to Syria. As permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, both Russia and China have vetoed recent proposed resolutions targeting the Syrian government.

China and Russia fear a Syrian repeat of the Western bombing campaign against Muammar Gaddafi's regime in Libya. The security council's Resolution 1973 was passed to establish a no-fly zone over Libya, ostensibly to protect the civilian population. Russia and China jointly abstained from the vote, thereby ensuring its success. Two days later a coalition of Arab Gulf states and NATO used the resolution as an opening to begin an aerial campaign with the ultimate goal of enacting regime change in Libya.

China and Russia are keen to avoid a duplication of the Libyan scenario in Syria, and have therefore blocked two security council resolutions calling for sanctions against the Syrian government. Neither country will allow any opening for the West to launch military operations in Syria. Russia wants to maintain its strategic interests in Syria, particularly its sole Mediterranean port facility at Tartus. China fears a spread of sectarian violence from Syria into regional countries, and a resulting increase in the price of oil. Furthermore, both nations want to curtail the practice of Western-led "regime change" for ideological and geopolitical reasons.

It's the sovereignty, stupid

China's ambassador to the United Nations, Li Baodong, defined the Chinese government's view towards the Syrian conflict on Monday, saying, "We [do] not have intention to protect anybody against anybody. ... What we really want to see is that the sovereignty of that country can be safeguarded, and the destiny of that country can be in the hands of the people in Syria." [4]

Li effectively summarized the geostrategic worldview and resulting policies of Russia, China, and the SCO. The sovereignty of each individual country is sacrosanct. It does not matter exactly who is ruling a nation, so long as a government is not imposed from the outside.

This is a clear challenge to the foreign policy of the United States and its Western allies. From Afghanistan and Iraq, to Libya, the US has used its military might to enact regime change against regional rivals. These interventions have been justified in terms of "human rights", "fighting terrorism", and "stopping the spread of Weapons of Mass Destruction". However, China and Russia believe these campaigns were launched in order to advance America's perceived geopolitical interests.

The Sino-Russian alliance, as exemplified by the SCO, is essential a defensive, conservative posture. China and Russia will not tolerate further Western encroachment into the strategically sensitive regions of Western and Central Asia. They will use their growing economic and political clout to block Western attempts at regime change in Syria, Iran, and any other country where China and Russia have geopolitical interests.

Notes
1. Beijing says China, Russia 'united on Syria', SBS Australia. June 5, 2012.
2. Putin to Meet With Ahmadinejad in Beijing Before Nuclear Talks, Bloomberg, June 3, 2012.
3. Russia Concerned about Changing Positions towards Military Action against Iran - Foreign Ministry, Rianovosti, May 20, 2012.
4. China says its not protecting Syria's Assad, Seattle PI, June 4, 2012.


Brendan P O'Reilly is a China-based writer and educator from Seattle. He is author of The Transcendent Harmony.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/185523-china-russia-flex-muscle-west.html#ixzz1x3EkTuGa
 
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How long does it take before an application is approved or denied? I mean they can seek it all they want how long until it is answered?
 
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