President Arif Alvi's tweet creates huge controversy

[FuturePAF]

US$ 90 deposited to the accounts of each student by govt of pakistan

Thanks for clarifying. Now they should make the motivational video, especially quoting that Hadith. It will give the students and the nation courage.

The British have their Stiff upper lip image, where they bravely face down hard situations and seemingly impossible odds. this has earned them significant respect around the world, and was one of the major strengths in their imperial era. If Pakistan is to make a name for itself it’s people need to accept collective sacrifice. As Muslims, our faith is about submitting our will to the will of Allah. Our Prophet has given us guidance in this matter, as the President pointed out. The people need to learn to control their fear, have faith in Allah, and stop squabbling on a matter that has a clear Hadith backing up what should be done.

Also, if all students can’t come back, none of them should come back. Their needs to be fairness and discipline in this regard. Otherwise it will undermine our unity.

 

[khail007]

Actually the Prophet himself said that his advise on secular matters is not the same as his advise on religious matters.

I can not find the exact quote unfortunately but if anyone can provide the date palm tree cultivation incident story, please do. In the story, the Prophet PBUH saw a group of Muslims trying an experimental technique on cultivation, he disapproved of it. Latter on when he was informed that the harvest was poor this year's because the people of Madina did not try the new technique and stuck to His advice, he said that when it comes to secular matters and matters of professional traits, those who have experience in it know better than He PBUH does, but when it comes to Religious matters, then His knowledge is to be accepted whole heatedly.


So if a scientist is telling you that there is a better way than to leave the people there, then there advice is to be respected as well.

I am not aware of the 'Dates cultivation' issue quoted here. Also tried for, on Google but unable to find one. So if no reference of authentication from renowned books of احادیث such references are considered ضعیف and not to be believed.
If you able to find the reference, please do share for knowledge.
Further, in disease outbreak issue the instructions are very very clear and we do not have to further investigate/suspect but to follow.
In present scenario, even Chinese authorities are advising, people to stay apart and the affected town have a deserted/haunted outlook, that is called 'outbreak' as doctors/scientists do not have a clue of it but in search of a solution. So to whom we should believe?
I quoted in my previous post on the basis of following:
Al-Bukhaari (5739) and Muslim (2219) narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “If you hear that it (the plague) is in a land, do not go there, and if it breaks out in a land where you are, do not leave, fleeing from it.”

 

[maverick1977]

President of Pakistan Dr. Arif Alvi who have studied Dentistry in United States have quoted Prophet Muhammad ﷺ while tackling the subject of Pakistani students stuck in China. Dr Arif Alvi as a medical doctor should now that these Pakistani students could be kept in isolation and tested for symptoms. Pakistan could have evacuated all students and brought them to a isolated military base and kept them for 14 days to monitor their symptoms. Now twitter is criticizing Pakistan and especially President Arif Alvi. It seems that now even PTI has lost ground reality and not realising what damage they are doing to the reputation of Pakistan. Now is the time to act and bring back all the Pakistanis from China.

"Prophet's ﷺ directions regarding disease outbreaks are a good guide even 2day “If you hear of an outbreak of plague in a land, do not enter it, but if the plague breaks out in a place while you are in it, do not leave that place” (Bukhari & Muslim) Let us help those stuck there."

this is a test for those who do not belive the word of Prophet Muhammad.. pbuh ..

 

[SIPRA]

I am not aware of the 'Dates cultivation' issue quoted here. Also tried for, on Google but unable to find one. So if no reference of authentication from renowned books of احادیث such references are considered ضعیف and not to be believed.
If you able to find the reference, please do share for knowledge.
Further, in disease outbreak issue the instructions are very very clear and we do not have to further investigate/suspect but to follow.
In present scenario, even Chinese authorities are advising, people to stay apart and the affected town have a deserted/haunted outlook, that is called 'outbreak' as doctors/scientists do not have a clue of it but in search of a solution. So to whom we should believe?
I quoted in my previous post on the basis of following:
Al-Bukhaari (5739) and Muslim (2219) narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allah be pleased with him) that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “If you hear that it (the plague) is in a land, do not go there, and if it breaks out in a land where you are, do not leave, fleeing from it.”

I believe, he is referring to an incidence, which is found in Sahih Muslim, Sunan Ibn Maja, Sahih Ibn Hibban, Musnad Ahmed and other sources.

The narration in Sahih Muslim is as follows:

After arriving in Medina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) passed by some people who were fecundating some date palms, so he asked them what they were doing. When they told him, he said, “I don’t think that will provide any benefit,” or in another narration, “It would be better if you didn’t do that.”

So they refrained from doing it, and that year the crop was not as good. They mentioned it to him (peace and blessings be upon him), and he replied:

“I am only a human: if I command you to do something in your religion, then take it; but if I tell you to do something based on personal opinion, then [realize] that I am only human,” and in another narration, “Yet if I inform you of something from Allah, then do it, for indeed I will never convey an untruth on behalf of Allah Mighty and Majestic,” and in yet another narration, “You know better of your worldly affairs.”

 

[khail007]

I believe, he is referring to an incidence, which is found in Sahih Muslim, Sunan Ibn Maja, Sahih Ibn Hibban, Musnad Ahmed and other sources.

The narration in Sahih Muslim is as follows:

After arriving in Medina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) passed by some people who were fecundating some date palms, so he asked them what they were doing. When they told him, he said, “I don’t think that will provide any benefit,” or in another narration, “It would be better if you didn’t do that.”

So they refrained from doing it, and that year the crop was not as good. They mentioned it to him (peace and blessings be upon him), and he replied:

“I am only a human: if I command you to do something in your religion, then take it; but if I tell you to do something based on personal opinion, then [realize] that I am only human,” and in another narration, “Yet if I inform you of something from Allah, then do it, for indeed I will never convey an untruth on behalf of Allah Mighty and Majestic,” and in yet another narration, “You know better of your worldly affairs.”

Thanks for sharing.
That incident is not quoted as 'Hadith' but an incident. On the other hand, Muhammad (PBUH) himself concluded that advice was on based on his personal opinion - as quoted in incident.
In case of, outbreak the advice/instruction, is in a group of 'Hadith' as instructed to Muslims.

 

[Darth Vader]

Few Points
In all Honesty not bringing these students is a wise decision.
1 Pakistani medical system is broken and most probably will cause a outbreak even if its in remote area.
2nd Setting up Support for those in China will be cheapern, quicker and safer for everyone
3rd yes its hard by logically approch must be taken.
4th More education on hygiene needs to be given

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

How can you expect revolutionary results from same old rotten system put in place by gora in 1800s. Same circus different freaks.

Nice post. The blessed hadith does not say leave your citizens in another country or it's not your responsibility to look after them. Yes the hadith is saying do not bring them back and let them mix with the public because obviously the virus will spread. It is just giving your the basic principle of isolating those with the disease for protection.

Pakistan Government should have made a isolated place in Pakistan and bought back the students as they are our citizens, if it was not possible then atleast send a big medical team and supplies to look after them. Show the world and the chinese that Pakistan looks after its own people and tries to help its neighbour. Instead we are acting like a beggar nation, requesting China to look after them and then using a hadith to hide from responsibility.

Pti government is sounding like PPP and PML N governments. What has changed?

While my views on PTI leadership and Governance is no secret, I must support the stand of the Government on this matter and my opinion is that Arif Alvi is correct.

That is your opinion it does not benefit the Pakistanis stuck in China.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

How can you expect revolutionary results from same old rotten system put in place by gora in 1800s. Same circus different freaks.




That is your opinion it does not benefit the Pakistanis stuck in China.

Did you not see that idiot brother picking bloody tissues out of the bin? If these students come back then I doubt that their potential illness can be contained.

If the military decides to keep them on a base for two weeks, then the entire media circus show will raise hell about how they are being imprisoned or something. If the families are allowed to visit, then someone will do something stupid and the virus will jump.

 

[Mav3rick]

That is your opinion it does not benefit the Pakistanis stuck in China.

Do you think it will benefit the same Pakistanis and also those who are in Pakistan if the stranded students are brought back to Pakistan? What if they infect others?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Brought back to Pakistan. Kept at an isolated military/medical facility. Doctors in hazmat suites take care of them. That's how REAL countries ARE taking care of their people. Not the Pakistani circus freaks who have nothing but useless propoganda and twisting of ahadith to offer to their people.

Do you think it will benefit the same Pakistanis and also those who are in Pakistan if the stranded students are brought back to Pakistan? What if they infect others?

 

[YeBeWarned]

No questions here, Prophet said it means it was a Command from Allah ..

 

[waz]

President of Pakistan Dr. Arif Alvi who have studied Dentistry in United States have quoted Prophet Muhammad ﷺ while tackling the subject of Pakistani students stuck in China. Dr Arif Alvi as a medical doctor should now that these Pakistani students could be kept in isolation and tested for symptoms. Pakistan could have evacuated all students and brought them to a isolated military base and kept them for 14 days to monitor their symptoms. Now twitter is criticizing Pakistan and especially President Arif Alvi. It seems that now even PTI has lost ground reality and not realising what damage they are doing to the reputation of Pakistan. Now is the time to act and bring back all the Pakistanis from China.

"Prophet's ﷺ directions regarding disease outbreaks are a good guide even 2day “If you hear of an outbreak of plague in a land, do not enter it, but if the plague breaks out in a place while you are in it, do not leave that place” (Bukhari & Muslim) Let us help those stuck there."

How is this controversial? He’s right. Anyone seen the quarantined cruise ship with dozens of westerners on board? What about the self isolation advice every nation is issuing.
You move to populated areas you will be infecting countless others.

 

[ShaikhKamal]

How is this controversial? He’s right. Anyone seen the quarantined cruise ship with dozens of westerners on board? What about the self isolation advice every nation is issuing.
You move to populated areas you will be infecting countless others.

Dr. Arif Alvi as a medical doctor knows that now we have tools to test patients for Coronavirus. Most countries have evacuated their citizens to isolated bases to quarantine these people and test them for the virus. Many Pakistani students have returned on their own and now are spreading the Coronavirus in Pakistan. How did these people return to Pakistan and why were they not quarantined ? Either you block all Pakistanis returning from China or none of them. Only the children of elite do not have to respect the law and returned to Pakistan without quarantine while the children of normal people are stuck in China.

 

[Itachi]

Although I support the decision to keep the students in China, since Pakistan doesn't have any type of facility or experience to deal with the virus, it is pretty funny seeing politicians use religion to push their point.

Where were all the hadiths when Afghanistan was allowed to be bombed?? Or the Kashmiris suffering since Independence? Or all the corruption done by everyone??

Religion to these guys is just a tool to be used when it benefits them and in this case, hides their inability to do anything for the Pakistani students unfortunately.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

They are completely correct. Do not bring them to Pakistan.

We still have doctors here who reuse needles and infect people w Hep C.

Pakistan does not have the infrastructure to control an outbreak, or even safeguards to prevent medical negligence.

We should work on it.