Preparations on for super-sonic BrahMos testfiring

[ganimi kawa]

@ Gambit, thanks for a nice post on TERCOM.

I have a few questions regarding the age old supersonic vs subsonic conflict.

In the sea skimming mode brahmos flies @ 10m altitude ( few reports on the official site claim 3m but let us not consider it).

Comparing it with the standard subsonic AShM flying @ 3-5m above the waves, what can be the differance in time between detecting former and later.

Let us forget about IRST (I have some data regarding that), assume an average radar (ship based or airborne will have two different values), though differance in size should be factored in for the missiles.

The Brahmos is a very adversary specific weapon.

I disagree with the word "very" in your post. In the land attack role, maybe yes (even then one could argue that it is mission specific or target specific). But as an AShM it is not "adversary specific"!

 

[mjnaushad]

Buddy we are on the way to introduce a cruse missile with hypersonic speed and about 1900km range so do you think 600km range is big task for DRDO

Only one think is big task and that is stealth feature

Is this supported by a source or just speculation? Whats the name of this missile....

 

[lionheart1]

@ Gambit what is a minimum weight of a nuclear weapon so it can be carried on brohmos. i saw in one channel that a nuclear bomb can be launched by artillery.

 

[ganimi kawa]

@ Gambit what is a minimum weight of a nuclear weapon so it can be carried on brohmos. i saw in one channel that a nuclear bomb can be launched by artillery.

It depends on the technology for nuclear warhead design available to a country. About India, I'm not sure we have a 200-300 kg range nuke with a substantial yield.

 

[gambit]

@ Gambit, thanks for a nice post on TERCOM.

I have a few questions regarding the age old supersonic vs subsonic conflict.

In the sea skimming mode brahmos flies @ 10m altitude ( few reports on the official site claim 3m but let us not consider it).

Comparing it with the standard subsonic AShM flying @ 3-5m above the waves, what can be the differance in time between detecting former and later.

Response time depends on detection time and for that you need to look at the radar horizon calculator...

Horizon calculator - radar and visual

Radar is line-of-sight (LoS) and the higher the antenna's elevation, the greater the horizon range which lead to more time to discriminate target from clutter, or if the target is mobile and find it. Unfortunately, this is a double-edged sword as no one has a monopoly on radar detection. Tactically speaking, the defense has a slight advantage in that its radar antenna is not the target whereas for the offense, the radar antenna is physically attached to the weapon. The defense can have its radar antenna as elevated as possible, on a tall mast or on a nearby taller hill or even an airborne and orbiting platform. The offense does not have that structural freedom, leaving the defense with the longer radar horizon view. A subsonic approach will give the defense greater response time, which lead us to altitude over terrain and we will use the sea as an example...

Douglas Sea Scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Douglas Sea Scale is a scale which measures the height of the waves and also measures the swell of the sea. The scale is very simple to follow. The Douglas Sea Scale is expressed in one of 10 degrees.

A supersonic flight approach over high sea state is dangerous for the offense. It would be embarrassing to have the missile swatted out of the air by an unexpected wave. At that speed over an uncertain terrain, and the sea qualify as 'terrain', there is no time available to compensate for an unexpected wave, leaving double-digits meters altitude as the only option. So now all you have to do is plug in whatever antenna elevation you wish into the above radar horizon calculator, find that two-way radar horizon distance, and figure out how many seconds of response time available for both offense and defense using a variety of approach speed.

I disagree with the word "very" in your post. In the land attack role, maybe yes (even then one could argue that it is mission specific or target specific). But as an AShM it is not "adversary specific"!

Adversary is not target. An adversary provide you with targets. There is hostility between India and Pakistan, next door neighbors. Any response would have to be as quick to rise and as rapid to any target as possible. Weapons development often is immediate threat based.

 

[gambit]

@ Gambit what is a minimum weight of a nuclear weapon so it can be carried on brohmos. i saw in one channel that a nuclear bomb can be launched by artillery.

I usually try to be precise with terminologies.

A nuclear explosive device is a collection of parts that may not be in a packaged but is functional. The WW II Manhattan Project had nuclear explosive devices that were room size.

A nuclear weapon is when that device had all the 'fat' trimmed and all the components are in a package. The WW II Fat Man and Little Boy weapons were packaged, just very big ones.

A package is a 'bomb' if it is released by an aircraft, even though we casually use the word 'bomb' for any device that explode. That casual use has become accepted nowadays.

The US Army had nuclear artillery since the Cold War and those were generally referred to in the same way as an ICBM -- warheads.

Davy Crockett (nuclear device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So to answer your question about weight -- it depends on the warhead's desired yield.

 

[ganimi kawa]

@ Gambit, thanks for the nice discussion and shared knowledge so far!

Adversary is not target. An adversary provide you with targets. There is hostility between India and Pakistan, next door neighbors. Any response would have to be as quick to rise and as rapid to any target as possible. Weapons development often is immediate threat based.

I meant exactly the same thing. I think it is more "target/mission specific" than "adversary specific"! It can be deployed against anyone in India's neighborhood for destroying high value assets and also time critical targets. By increasing the range we can "generalize" it.

However, AFA range is concerned, I do agree that future threat perception matrix has been a deciding factor.

Also as an AShM it can be a threat to any adversary in the world! Not many navies can successfully engage a weapon like that.

Also please note that idea of rapid precision strike is selling like hot cakes these days. Case in point being Arclight from US or improved Iskander from russia. For india brahmos with shaurya will have this "specific role"

The need for rapid and precise strike is a worldwide phenomenon

 

[Dash]

Is this supported by a source or just speculation? Whats the name of this missile....

How about Shaurya??-)

 

[cabatli_53]

If that is the real test launch video of Brahmos missile and taken such a sucessful results as it is seen in video, I do not know the russian share on this program but I think That's increadible important achievement for a country who put his head into way of development of such technologies. That's the point Turkish defence industry aims to reach as a target about missile sector in 2015's...