Predator drones flown from base in Pakistan: US Senator ! WHO IS LYING

[XYON]

Those pictures were of base in Balochistan but now an interesting development took place. Today Government minister stated that no land from Punjab was being used except Attock and we all know what base is there in Attock.

If you are referring to the PAF Base Minhas in Kamra, then you may be wrong as far as US UAV's are concerned. Kamra houses the assembly line for the FALCO UAV which was purchased by PAF from Galileo from Italy. It has no presence whatsoever of any foreign UAV system.

Can you please also quote a source of your claim above?

 

[TruthSeeker]

There is a continuing confusion between armed drones and surveillance-only drones. I thought the global hawks (all kinds) are unarmed. So evidence of global hawks at this or that base is not evidence of drones that are launching hellfire missiles? Is this correct?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Well, then how can you claim the victims were militants? Do you have any proof of it? It's also a speculation.

I agree. But, why would the militants cordon off a strike if none of their people were hit? They would want maximum press coverage for the propaganda value. No, they cordon off these strikes BECAUSE they want to hide their losses AND be able to tell lies about civilian casualties.

"You rely on your media."

No, I read 5 or 6 Pak newspapers on-line every day. (Daily Mail, Daily Times, Dawn, The News, Frontier Post, Lahore Post and Pakistan Observer). But, if the militants have taken control of the site, I don't believe the Pak newspaper reports on civilian casualties.


"It was revealed that all the people killed, in drone strike on Jan. 23, were innocent."

Some news reports said all were terrorists, others that it was civilians. I believe it was militants.

"Revenge is the tradition of Tribes."

Revenge is also a tradition of the American Tribe. Until we kill or capture Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri we will not stop. Pakistan is harboring these men and their friends. We will not leave Pakistan alone until either we or Pakistan gets them. Don't you understand that this is an American vendetta, just as strong as a Pashtun vendetta?

"The strategy was to soften the country by drone attacks. What do you say about this?"

The US doesn't want anything in Pakistan except for al Qaeda. Give up or kill al Qaeda and we will go away!

 

[SSGPA1]

Dear SSGPA1

My talented Bhateejey you make me truly proud at times. Please do a bit of homework before posting stuff like:

“”Why would the US need to set up infrastructure at Shamsi when they have advanced aircraft carriers?””

Reaper / Predator cannot operate from Aircraft carriers, and they do not have the range to fly in from Edwards AFB California.

Nobody respects nations that do not respect themselves and do not care about their sovereignty. Musharraf and now Zardari governments have trashed our self respect; therefore we are treated worse than beggars. Our country is attacked by UAV’s operating from our own soil.

Iran did not compromise on its sovereignty and maintained its dignity. The US effectively handed over Iraq to Iran after having run out of options. Now they are cajoling Iran to bail them out in Afghanistan as well.

No one is supporting drone attacks in Pakistan.

This thread is about a US senator's statement. Many members (including myself) believe that the US senator lied.

This lady is head of the US Intelligence committee but CIA director was appointed without her consent or knowledge.

Why I believe so? If you look at her career and allegations against her you probably would also have doubts about her credibility.

US Sen. has further clarified that her statement was based on what she read in papers.

My issue is that Pakistanis are jumping up and down because Western media ALLEGED that drones attacking Pakistan are actually flying from Pakistan. This story is only backed by a statement from a US senator who support both India and Israel.

Please lets not fall in this trap, lets look at the credibility of these sources before we point fingers towards our own institutions.

 

[XYON]

There is a continuing confusion between armed drones and surveillance-only drones. I thought the global hawks (all kinds) are unarmed. So evidence of global hawks at this or that base is not evidence of drones that are launching hellfire missiles? Is this correct?

Global Hawk is a large UAV system with very high flying ceiling and long distance endurance. It has been designed for hi altitude surveillance (kind of an unmanned U2) and it is not weapons capable.

The Reaper and Predator UAV on the other hand are the only UCAV's presently of carrying the Hell Fire Missiles and fly at low and medium altitude.

The CIA uses Reaper UCAV's flown from Afghanistan in the Pakistan border areas to neutralize the notorious foreigners of Al-Qaeda.

The photo earlier shows USAF Reaper UAV's parked on the tarmac of Bandar Base in Baluchistan in 2003-04. The Bandari Base may also be used as a pit stop for Global Hawk if required in case of an emergency during flight. However, no Global Hawk is parked or used from Bandari base at this time.

 

[Pashtun]

I agree. But, why would the militants cordon off a strike if none of their people were hit? They would want maximum press coverage for the propaganda value. No, they cordon off these strikes BECAUSE they want to hide their losses AND be able to tell lies about civilian casualties.

That's not true. Tho it's true that you are relying on media coverage (which is trying to cover things up for US as well as Pak). Otherwise, the independent sources (and the local newspapers, mostly Urdu/Pashto based) clearly puts the story in correct perspective.

And not to forget, every single person is called either Taliban or Militant, just as every single person shot dead by Americans is called "Suspected" Militant/Insurgent. And you must know that the local tribesmen cordons off the area quickly to collect their dead. It's a tradition, we do not allow anyone else to interfere in our business. And that is painted, usually, as militants cordoning off the area.

And the following confirms that you only want to believe in what you want to believe in.

"It was revealed that all the people killed, in drone strike on Jan. 23, were innocent."

Some news reports said all were terrorists, others that it was civilians. I believe it was militants.

You can believe in what you can believe in but the ground realities does not change. And the ground reality is, women and children are being killed in those drone attacks. And every single person killed, raises 100 fighters. No debts are left unpaid in our lands!

"Revenge is the tradition of Tribes."

Revenge is also a tradition of the American Tribe. Until we kill or capture Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri we will not stop. Pakistan is harboring these men and their friends. We will not leave Pakistan alone until either we or Pakistan gets them. Don't you understand that this is an American vendetta, just as strong as a Pashtun vendetta?

Not really. A fake Osama Bin Laden showing up in a distorted video claiming the responsibility of 9/11 is a shame on american part to come up with that evidence to prove OBL pulled 9/11. Even a child could distinguish the two. And if you believe in that crap, I have nothing else to say to you than believing in your low calibre of analyzing the news (even if it belongs to your country and thats perhaps the blind nationalism you got there).

On the Revenge side, we are here, and so you are. You have all the resources known to the mankind on your disposal, and we have nothing. You have everything, and we have nothing. Yet time will tell my boy, who will leave the area with their heads in their ***, if you already can't comprehend your fate in Vietnam, Somalia and Iraq.

Mark my words, Afghanistan is a replication of Vietnam, even worst, for you guys. It's just a begining of an end of American empire, build on blood of others.

And thanks for telling us you are not leaving our country alone until you get your propped up terrorist OBL.

"The strategy was to soften the country by drone attacks. What do you say about this?"

The US doesn't want anything in Pakistan except for al Qaeda. Give up or kill al Qaeda and we will go away!

You WILL go away, trust me. But stop throwing dust in people's eyes by portraying this invasion of imperialism as coming for OBL. America did not come for OBL (tho you'd been exceptionally brainwashed about it) and it's horribly childish the way you try to come up beating your chest about "give up OBL or we are going to destroy you".

Any sane person knows why US is in Afghanistan and why they invaded Iraq and carried a genocide of Muslims. So take that head out from sand at once and smell the air.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The photo earlier shows USAF Reaper UAV's parked on the tarmac of Bandar Base in Baluchistan in 2003-04. The Bandari Base may also be used as a pit stop for Global Hawk if required in case of an emergency during flight. However, no Global Hawk is parked or used from Bandari base at this time.

From Wikipedia:

"The MQ-9 Reaper (originally the Predator B) is an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) developed by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems (GA-ASI) for use by the United States Air Force, the United States Navy, and the British Royal Air Force. The MQ-9 is the first hunter-killer UAV designed for long-endurance, high-altitude surveillance.

On 28 October 2007 the Air Force Times reported an MQ-9 had achieved its first "kill", firing a Hellfire missile against "Afghanistan insurgents in the Deh Rawood region of the mountainous Oruzgan province. The strike was 'successful'," the United States Central Command Air Forces said."

On 3 December 2005, a US Predator UAV reportedly killed high-level Al Qaeda member Chief Abu Hamza Rabia in his sleep in Haisori, Pakistan. Four others were also killed."

____________________________
The earliest acknowledged drone strike in Pakistan was December 2005.
I thought that the "Reaper" did not go into service until 2007. So how could a photo from 2003-4 show a "Reaper"? Again I am confused. Do you mean unarmed Predator in your comment quoted above? I'm trying to nail down whether or not any of these known sightings of US drones on Pak airfields actually demonstrate that armed US drones have been seen operating from Pak airfields.

 

[batmannow]

No one is supporting drone attacks in Pakistan.

This thread is about a US senator's statement. Many members (including myself) believe that the US senator lied.

This lady is head of the US Intelligence committee but CIA director was appointed without her consent or knowledge.

Why I believe so? If you look at her career and allegations against her you probably would also have doubts about her credibility.

US Sen. has further clarified that her statement was based on what she read in papers.

My issue is that Pakistanis are jumping up and down because Western media ALLEGED that drones attacking Pakistan are actually flying from Pakistan. This story is only backed by a statement from a US senator who support both India and Israel.

Please lets not fall in this trap, lets look at the credibility of these sources before we point fingers towards our own institutions.

SSGPA1;sir
what do you mean by" credibility of these sources " ?
plz stop , flamming the idea that US senator is a liar, she could be but , she cant do that on the floor of US SENATE.
Its not "PAKISTAN NATIONAL ASSEMBLY" , the secret of drones flying from pakistani airbases, NOW its not a secret any more?
its becomming true day by day, yes agree on the point that , US senator backed out in the media, from the preasure of CIA, but she was talking true on the floor of SENATE , lets take it boldly?

 

[fatman17]

AoA to all,

I have come across this website named wakeupproject.com, and it offers real insight as to what the zionist agenda is and how the zionist/satanists are awaiting the arrival of the Dajjal!!!

If you go on to wakupproject.com and look at the 'arrivals' link, and there are 51 parts to this, i believe everyone will be in for a surprise.
It shows shocking truths about the way the New world order is implementing the dajjal system.[/QUOTE]

oh no not again - mods beware!

 

[PakistanMyPride]

I agree. But, why would the militants cordon off a strike if none of their people were hit? They would want maximum press coverage for the propaganda value. No, they cordon off these strikes BECAUSE they want to hide their losses AND be able to tell lies about civilian casualties.

If you don't know the traditions of trible areas then you shouldn't fabricate stories. See "Pashtun's post" for this.

"You rely on your media."

No, I read 5 or 6 Pak newspapers on-line every day. (Daily Mail, Daily Times, Dawn, The News, Frontier Post, Lahore Post and Pakistan Observer). But, if the militants have taken control of the site, I don't believe the Pak newspaper reports on civilian casualties.

It's good to hear, you read Pak Newspaper. I would also recommend "http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpress.com/".

"It was revealed that all the people killed, in drone strike on Jan. 23, were innocent."

Some news reports said all were terrorists, others that it was civilians. I believe it was militants.

Your post shows, you believe what you want to believe. BUT this would not change the facts on ground. It's pretty obvious, you would not believe the civilian deaths, afterall, americans are doing all this. In americans' dictionary, everything they do is right whether it's ethical or not!!

"Revenge is the tradition of Tribes."

Revenge is also a tradition of the American Tribe. Until we kill or capture Osama bin Laden and Ayman Zawahiri we will not stop. Pakistan is harboring these men and their friends. We will not leave Pakistan alone until either we or Pakistan gets them. Don't you understand that this is an American vendetta, just as strong as a Pashtun vendetta?

You will not stop and go on killing people and you don't bother, by doing this, you would make more enemies, good thinking . Do you want us to fullfill your vendetta at our cost? Have you read the history of Afghanistan and tribal areas? if you read then you would realize no foreign force has ever succeeded in defeating these people. I've also read, in newspaper, many advices which Russia & UK have given to US. Anyway, if you are sure about your vendetta then let's wait and see, what happens!

Aa far as, OBL and AZ are concerned, you have more sophisticated equipments and you believe in your intelligence agencies, then why don't you tell us, where there are? Pakistan has done much for you, even the current situation of Pakistan is due to this WOT. Without Pakistan's help, you wouldn't be able to go into the Afghanistan. Still, you people blame us of not getting OBL & AZ. You claim yourself as super power then why didn't you get these person in the very beginning when they were in Afghanistan. Why has your govt. failed to arrest them? Why don't you ask these questions from your govt.?
The fact is, they are not in Pakistan and your govt. is least interested in them, its secret agenda is very much different from what they say.

"The strategy was to soften the country by drone attacks. What do you say about this?"

The US doesn't want anything in Pakistan except for al Qaeda. Give up or kill al Qaeda and we will go away!

Are you sure? You would go away!! Are you sure, you don't want to destablize Pakistan! Are you sure, you don't have any problem with China and you don't want to block its energy routes. the routes which passes through Pakistan.

 

[lowe1941]

AoA to all,

I have come across this website named wakeupproject.com, and it offers real insight as to what the zionist agenda is and how the zionist/satanists are awaiting the arrival of the Dajjal!!!

If you go on to wakupproject.com and look at the 'arrivals' link, and there are 51 parts to this, i believe everyone will be in for a surprise.
It shows shocking truths about the way the New world order is implementing the dajjal system.[/QUOTE]

oh no not again - mods beware!

I have allways looked up other muslims that hate Isrealis as racist and religious bigots,,, because if it was other muslims doing the same thing to muslims they would not give a damm as usual...least not to the extent of when its non muslims.

 

[batmannow]

Fine time for Feinstein
By Cyril Almeida

Friday, 20 Feb, 2009 | 11:43 AM PST

‘AS I understand it, these are flown out of a Pakistani base.’ With those words Senator Dianne Feinstein, chairperson of the Senate Intelligence Committee, blew the lid off one of the most controversial military programmes in Pakistan’s history.

So remarkable was her pronouncement — effectively throwing a major partner in the war on terror to the pit bulls in the opposition — that it immediately raised the question, why now?

Seems the Americans got tired of Pakistani complaints and wanted to send a direct message: the programme is here to stay, it’s effective, we’re going to stick with it, now stop pretending you don’t have a clue. Call it tough love.

But here in Pakistan, many people outside the army and the government are also bewildered by the statement. It really makes little political sense.

First, let me clarify that there’s no love lost for the army or the government on the issue. Everyone’s heard the public denials for a while now. But in private too officials have rigidly stuck to the line and flatly denied any involvement in the drone strikes, even though logic suggested otherwise.

Taken at their word, i.e. no Pakistani involvement, the increasing accuracy of the strikes could only mean the Americans had built up a network of informants in Fata that was wide, deep and effective and that the Pakistani security establishment had simply stood aside. But that was unrealistic; remember, even during the height of the first Afghan war Pakistan fiercely opposed direct American access to Fata and its web of jihadis.

So it was always difficult to believe that we had allowed the Americans to not just own the skies above Fata but have spies on the ground to tell the drones where to point their cameras and Hellfire missiles.

Yet, and this point can’t be stressed enough, even among those who had put two and two together, the working assumption was that Pakistan’s fingerprints on the drone policy would be faint enough to keep the public from knowing unambiguously what’s going on.

The strategy of protests and complaints by the state made some sense from this perspective. Sure, the government took some flak for being half-hearted in its denials, but so mysterious is the drone technology to the ordinary man and so believable is the Americans’ reputation as go-it-alone cowboys, that connecting all the dots was difficult — and dissipated some of the public’s rage.

Sen Feinstein’s statement has destroyed that always dubious strategy. Complaining that drone strikes are counter-productive when you are now known to be involved in their production is no longer an option — though the government and army may stick to it a while longer as it scrambles to develop a new public line.

But all the talk about drones over the last week has revealed, at least in private, another disturbing aspect of the programme: the Americans need us but they don’t trust us.

In the secretive world of counter-terrorism cooperation, it’s hard to get anything more than scanty details on what is happening on the ground. But it does appear that while the Americans are keen to use our soil for launching the drones and do receive information from us about potential targets, they aren’t ready to allow Pakistan any ownership of the programme. Far from being equal partners in the programme, we remain at the periphery, feeding an American set-up with information and not involved in the operation of the drones themselves.

The fear is obvious:

Pakistan’s old game of differentiating between good and bad militants may still be on, and the Americans are worried that access to the inner sanctums of the drone operation may allow us to occasionally slip warning to some militants that Hellfires are coming their way.

Resolving that trust deficit in private has not been possible in the seven years the Americans have been in this neighbourhood; now Feinstein’s statement has ensured that its sordid details will be hashed out in public.

Frankly, the more Feinstein’s statement echoes in the media chamber, the more it seems like a deliberate slip by the Americans that wasn’t quite thought through. Frustration with our public denials probably boiled over and the new administration may have wanted to clear the decks but this was an odd way of doing it.

The Pakistan army and government — and let’s not pretend that the Americans could operate drones from Pakistan purely on the say-so of the civilians — have come out looking really bad.

Damaging revelations have been survived before; Musharraf’s revelation in his biography that we handed over hundreds of detainees to the Americans and collected the bounties comes to mind. But that was a different environment. For one, Musharraf was the government and didn’t have to pay much attention to public opinion or political opposition. For another, the renditions occurred in secret.

Drone strikes, on the other hand, are front page news and are taking place in an environment where both the army and the politicians have less room to manoeuvre.

Every strike from now will be a reminder to the public of our own institutions’ perfidy and complicity and anti-Americanism will be matched by disgust at our own institutions.

That can’t possibly be good for the stability of our institutions, something the Americans shouldn’t have been so cavalier about. The more rent our institutions are by dissent, the less effective can we be as a partner of the Americans in the fight against militancy.

The other problem is that Feinstein’s revelation has dragged its most effective counter-terrorism operation into a political vortex with no escape. Drones are getting so good at what they are meant to do, killing the bad guys while limiting collateral damage, that it’s hard to think of a better strategy in the remote villages and fields of Fata. Sending in Pakistani troops is expensive, when it comes to fighting a counter-insurgency they aren’t considered up to scratch, and casualties or hostage-taking is an ever-present threat.

Now that Feinstein has ended the secrecy, the best way forward is obvious: grant Pakistan some ownership of the drone programme, make sure the public is aware that the ownership is real and meaningful, and widen the list of targets to include the militants fighting the Pakistani state.

The problem is equally obvious:

the Americans don’t want to share their drones with us. But they should think hard about this; the political pain of being outed by the Americans far outweighs the potential operational losses from the possibility of having a spy on board.

FOR THOSE WHO, STILL DONT WANT TO ACCEPT , THIS SHAMEFULL ACT OF TERRORISM WITH OUR OWN GOVT. INVOLVED IN IT!
SHAME, SHAME & SHAME ON YOU GUYS?
www.dawn.com

 

[Abdussamad]

I have allways looked up other muslims that hate Isrealis as racist and religious bigots,,, because if it was other muslims doing the same thing to muslims they would not give a damm as usual...least not to the extent of when its non muslims.

That is because Muslims don't consider Muslims and non-Muslims to be equal. That is the basic idea behind adopting any religion. You do it because you consider the religion and its adherents to be superior. Surely this is basic stuff. I mean did you really not know this?

 

[lowe1941]

That is because Muslims don't consider Muslims and non-Muslims to be equal. That is the basic idea behind adopting any religion. You do it because you consider the religion and its adherents to be superior. Surely this is basic stuff. I mean did you really not know this?

I know it but what I have trouble beliveing is people are that stupid, but then I have allways had a problem underestimateing peoples intelligence.