Powering up: Govt to finally pay IPPs Rs285b in outstanding dues

[Argus Panoptes]

English is not our mother tongue. Even native English speakers don't make fun of people speaking the language with an accent, but we Pakistanis have become guardians of English language, making fun of accents, which is a racist thing to do.

As for your question, how would I feel, honestly I don't waste my time thinking about such petty non-issues. Skin colour, physique, appearance, language, accent, are genetic (from Allah), any one who makes fun of these things, makes fun of Allah. I see people here referring to different politicians with their physical appearances exposing their mentality and immaturity.

I have seen the so called educated MQM supporters refer to NS as "-----" and I am sure many would have their fathers in the age group where one starts losing his hairs. I mean 90% of all mails lose their hair at some stage in life, this is a natural phenomena, what kind of an idiot makes fun of his own elders or their own future appearance.

Good point, so let's move on to the topic of the thread:

The resolution of the power crisis will take much more than just an injection of PKR 300 billion or thereabouts of capital, since the basic problems that led to the huge debt are still at work.

 

[InvisbleSoldier]

Pakistan, IMF meeting to held next week in Dubai | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia
Pakistan Agrees To $7.6 Billion IMF Bailout

All will eat. All will go. At the end Nation will suffer...

 

[Thorough Pro]

Agreed, paying off circular debt would only resolve the payment issue and may improve power generation to some extent, but buying power from IPP's has proved to be a disastrous decision in my opinion, just look at the amount PKR 900 billion in about 6 years, had that been invested in government owned power projects, it would have been much better financially.

Only solution to cheap power generation is dams, generate cheap electricity, store water for irrigation, safeguard against floods and least amount carbon footprint to save environment and ecology.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Agreed, paying off circular debt would only resolve the payment issue and may improve power generation to some extent, but buying power from IPP's has proved to be a disastrous decision in my opinion, just look at the amount PKR 900 billion in about 6 years, had that been invested in government owned power projects, it would have been much better financially.
.

Bro, I agree with with your point to some degree.


However please remember that Pakistan did not have funds to invest. This is why IPP experiment was launched.


Believe me, everyone knew the possible issues that you listed.

However hard currency is not there in our national pocket, the currency that is needed to install any kind of power system.

And thus we are going from bad to worse.


Our nation is not willing to be good global citizen that is the first step towards earning hard currency.

We must fix our tribal nation before we can start suggesting anything.

.....
Only solution to cheap power generation is dams, generate cheap electricity, store water for irrigation, safeguard against floods and least amount carbon footprint to save environment and ecology.

your suggestions are contradicting each other when you say " generate cheap electricity, store water for irrigation"

FYI, when you "store" water for irrigation, you cannot generate "cheap" electricity unless it is sowing season. That happens only twice a year for few months.

Damns remained shut unless we get extra water during raining season.

So the electricity from water is not a reliable 24 hour/365 days source.

It is hardly available for 90-110 days.


The only way out is to follow how Chinese, S Koreans, French, Americans, British, and Germans etc. etc. are doing.

They use a combination of coal, nuclear, and tiny bit of hydro,


We have shot ourselves in our own feet by launching a foreign policy and our mad Islamo-socialist-fascist national behavior that has messed up our trade and our tourism and most importantly our chances of getting the tech for nuclear and coal.


peace

 

[Argus Panoptes]

..........



your suggestions are contradicting each other when you say " generate cheap electricity, store water for irrigation"

FYI, when you "store" water for irrigation, you cannot generate "cheap" electricity unless it is sowing season. That happens only twice a year for few months.

Damns remained shut unless we get extra water during raining season.

So the electricity from water is not a reliable 24 hour/365 days source.

It is hardly available for 90-110 days.


The only way out is to follow how Chinese, S Koreans, French, Americans, British, and Germans etc. etc. are doing.

They use a combination of coal, nuclear, and tiny bit of hydro,


We have shot ourselves in our own feet by launching a foreign policy and our mad Islamo-socialist-fascist national behavior that has messed up our trade and our tourism and most importantly our chances of getting the tech for nuclear and coal.


peace

A cascade of dams can both store water and provide electricity all year round, with the upper reservoirs used for power generation and the lower ones for storage.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Water is stored during rain/flood season and used throughout the year for both power generation and irrigation

 

[ziaulislam]

actually statistically buying power from IPP was a very good decision.
they produce cheaper power from DESCO(govt owned), use less gas ..

real problem is DESCO and distribution..
had the distribution also been privatized and laws were set on private companies to ensure 10-15% losses, here would have been no power problem

the only error in IPPs was govt lack of vision to ask the IPPs to set up coal plants instead of oil based plants, at ttime they were set oil was very cheap at 10-15$ and noone even imagined it would go up beyond 50$

 

[FaujHistorian]

actually statistically buying power from IPP was a very good decision.
they produce cheaper power from DESCO(govt owned), use less gas ..

real problem is DESCO and distribution..
had the distribution also been privatized and laws were set on private companies to ensure 10-15% losses, here would have been no power problem

the only error in IPPs was govt lack of vision to ask the IPPs to set up coal plants instead of oil based plants, at ttime they were set oil was very cheap at 10-15$ and noone even imagined it would go up beyond 50$

Right on bro!


Government owned monopolies for distribution of power are the biggest source of corruption and theft.


IPPs can be helped (asked, or cajoled) to switch from expensive fuels to coal.

The whole idea is to run the system as efficiiently as possible.


Unfortunately we have too many Islamo-Socialists in our government and universities. These leaches will never let the free market ideas to succeed.


peace

 

[DV RULES]

Bro, I agree with with your point to some degree.


However please remember that Pakistan did not have funds to invest. This is why IPP experiment was launched.


Believe me, everyone knew the possible issues that you listed.

However hard currency is not there in our national pocket, the currency that is needed to install any kind of power system.

And thus we are going from bad to worse.


Our nation is not willing to be good global citizen that is the first step towards earning hard currency.

We must fix our tribal nation before we can start suggesting anything.




your suggestions are contradicting each other when you say " generate cheap electricity, store water for irrigation"

FYI, when you "store" water for irrigation, you cannot generate "cheap" electricity unless it is sowing season. That happens only twice a year for few months.

Damns remained shut unless we get extra water during raining season.

So the electricity from water is not a reliable 24 hour/365 days source.

It is hardly available for 90-110 days.


The only way out is to follow how Chinese, S Koreans, French, Americans, British, and Germans etc. etc. are doing.

They use a combination of coal, nuclear, and tiny bit of hydro,


We have shot ourselves in our own feet by launching a foreign policy and our mad Islamo-socialist-fascist national behavior that has messed up our trade and our tourism and most importantly our chances of getting the tech for nuclear and coal.


peace

IPPs were biggest blunder of 'BEY NAZEER' in power sector when NEPRA forced to shut down own power generation facilities and run private power plants and we have to bear till 2025 unless someone with having balls can put this issue as national crises and forced to end contract.

The money which these white elephants eat could be diverted to construction of dams like Bunji, Dasu, Bhasha, Patan which have potential to bring shortfall to 0 and with plus storage of electricity. Coal energy also workable effectively as written in 2050 energy production forecast 'all major developed countries will shift their 70% electric generation plant on coal and rest of demand through other sources like solar, wind, nuclear.

In Pakistan we should focus on hydro, coal, solar mainly.

 

[ziaulislam]

IPPs were biggest blunder of 'BEY NAZEER' in power sector when NEPRA forced to shut down own power generation facilities and run private power plants and we have to bear till 2025 unless someone with having balls can put this issue as national crises and forced to end contract.

The money which these white elephants eat could be diverted to construction of dams like Bunji, Dasu, Bhasha, Patan which have potential to bring shortfall to 0 and with plus storage of electricity. Coal energy also workable effectively as written in 2050 energy production forecast 'all major developed countries will shift their 70% electric generation plant on coal and rest of demand through other sources like solar, wind, nuclear.

In Pakistan we should focus on hydro, coal, solar mainly.

IPP wasnt a blunder, if u think its blunder back it with fatcs or statistics..the fact the IPP run on furnanace oil because the govt in 90s only allowed furnance IPPS, as furnace oil was way cheaper and cleaner than..if we start paying the IPPs they will switch to coal and some have started to do so..
IPP use less gas and cost less..circular debt can be reduced 33 billion ruppess just by providing gas to IPPs instead govt owned poor power plants with an increase of 800mw energy with same amount of gas..

 

[qamar1990]

Before I reply to what you just blabbered. I would like to correct you so you dont embarrass yourself in near future. The circular debt is around 500 billion PKR, not 900. Hope you keep that in mind, only if you got one. Also, govt cant possibly pay the whole amount at once. Unless you got another solution.. First come out of Data darbar. Maybe youll gain some wisdom

look what you did.
he was in data darbar now he had to move to the top of cn tower lol

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Circular debt: Government pays Rs200 bn to IPPs | PAKISTAN - geo.tv

Circular debt: Government pays Rs200 bn to IPPs
June 28, 2013 - Updated 2015 PKT

ISLAMABAD: The government has paid Rs200 billion to independent power producers (IPPS) in a bid to overcome circular debt, Geo News reported Friday.

The Nawaz Sharif government had announced to end circular debt to overcome power crisis. The government was to pay Rs326 billion by June 30.

Experts say electricity production will increase with the improvement of oil and gas supply to the power plants after the governments pays dues to the IPPs as part of its efforts to overcome loadshedding.

The government is likely to pay Rs60 to Rs70 billion more to the IPPS shortly.






This is still way way short of the requirements, and the basic problems persists. More money down the drain without any enduring benefit.

 

[Hyde]

actually statistically buying power from IPP was a very good decision.
they produce cheaper power from DESCO(govt owned), use less gas ..

real problem is DESCO and distribution..
had the distribution also been privatized and laws were set on private companies to ensure 10-15% losses, here would have been no power problem

the only error in IPPs was govt lack of vision to ask the IPPs to set up coal plants instead of oil based plants, at ttime they were set oil was very cheap at 10-15$ and noone even imagined it would go up beyond 50$

well we normally predict after analysing the past history right? Oil remained under 15 dollars for the last 2 decades pre-1994 so it was perhaps assumed that the price could be doubled may be in the next 20 years or so.. but nobody really thought they would increase by up to 6-7 times in such a short while. The plants were supposedly going to become obsolete when the price was raised above 50 dollars if anybody ever thought about it back in 1990s. The sudden rise in oil prices shaken the whole world and Pakistan was just one of the pity example of recession.

 

[Zarvan]

@hasnain0099 if money is paid on time how much time it would take too add 1500 to 2000 meggawatts

 

[SBD-3]

@hasnain0099 if money is paid on time how much time it would take too add 1500 to 2000 meggawatts

Merely a few weeks even days because, the capacity with IPPs is Idle not something which they will have to do some expansion.