Pothowari Culture

[*Awan*]

Wow, someone is butthurt that Pothowari culture is some how related to Punjabi culture and the language is simply considered a dialect of Punjabi.

not exactly.
instead you are hell bent to prove that pothoharis and punjabis are same.
and extension to it pakistani punjabis and indian punjabis are same.
man your knowledge is internet based.and i am local.i am from pothohar.i know more than an american

 

[Infiltrator]

not exactly.
instead you are hell bent to prove that pothoharis and punjabis are same.
and extension to it pakistani punjabis and indian punjabis are same.
man your knowledge is internet based.and i am local.i am from pothohar.i know more than an american

I'm not hell bent on proving anything. All online research and data says Pothohari is a dialect of Punjabi.

Punjabi dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, I never mentioned Indian Punjabis in this thread. You can consider them an entirely different species for all I care. I realize you considered it offensive to be compared to Indians and this includes Indian Punjabis as well. However, I don't care so please refrain from changing the topic.

My knowledge is internet based? You mean to say my knowledge is based on research and books, articles, etc? Your playing into a logical fallacy believing that you automatically know more about Punjabi culture and dialects because your a local and I'm American.

 

[Infiltrator]

look dear infiltrator.being an american i appreciate your effort and knowledge but please don't question the knowledge of locals because there are things that you can't find on internet.
pothohari is as much different to punjabi as saraiki.a pothohari speker can understand punjabi but a punjabi speaker can't understand pothohari.on internet you will find that sariki is different than punhabi but pothohari is a dialect of punjabi.
the reason for this is economic.southern punjab is ignored part of province.there is no development there.they want a their separate province.so they bring this language issue.but in case of pothohar economically they are doing good.so never highlighted the differences from other parts of punjab.this does not imply that they are same.
read my other post as well in this thread.

I'm sorry for questioning your all-knowing authority on Punjabi and Pakistani culture.

Anyways, the Saraiki language is actually classified as a separate language unlike Pothohari. Also, who are you to say a Pothohari speaker can understand Punjabi but a Punjabi speaker can't understand Pothohari. I'm positive you don't represet all Pothohari and Punjabi speakers. It may be true in many cases but it isn't fact. Also, can you find any legitimate original source that says this?

Also, I find it ridiculous that you use your economic interpretations as a reason for why Saraiki is classified as a separate language. Perhaps, if you get past your wall of ignorance, you'll realize that linguists separated them for "linguistic" reasons.

 

[*Awan*]

I'm not hell bent on proving anything. All online research and data says Pothohari is a dialect of Punjabi.

Punjabi dialects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i told you the reason why all research data shows that pothohari is dialect of punjabi.because we very much integrated into punjab,don't want separate province,economically are good,thats why never used ethnic,language or cultural card.
having said that it does not imply that we are same as punjabis.

Also, I never mentioned Indian Punjabis in this thread. You can consider them an entirely different species for all I care. I realize you considered it offensive to be compared to Indians and this includes Indian Punjabis as well. However, I don't care so please refrain from changing the topic.

my intention was not to change the topic.some days ago you post on ethnic similarities b/w pak and indian punjab in another thread.i also did post on that thread but does reply you because of time constraints.so thats why referred to this thing.

My knowledge is internet based? You mean to say my knowledge is based on research and books, articles, etc? Your playing into a logical fallacy believing that you automatically know more about Punjabi culture and dialects because your a local and I'm American.

listen dear,don't boil your blood for no reason.
your knowledge is based on internet,research and books,written by whom?his affiliations?from which reason author belongs?etc etc.
i father is from pothohar,mother is from lahore.i know my culture and people more than a person whose source of info is net and a person who never visited pak.
i am saying it again.being an american i appreciate your knowledge and effort.but please don't question the knowledge of local.

 

[Infiltrator]

bullsh1t.
there is no similarity b/w pothowari culture and punjabi culture.we consider lahoris disgrace to the name of punjab because of their dirty habits.like jumping/dancing,prostituation/hera mandi.and lahoris are very liberal than pothowaris.
and pothohari is also very different to punjabi.punjabi speaking can't understand pothowari,but we can understand all dialects of punjabi.id disagree ,translate 1 min of this video.

and also pothowar is ethnically is dominated by awans,where as midle punjab is dominated by other casts like jat,rana,rajpoot etc etc.

I wonder how people from other parts of Punjab would react to your comments. I'm sure they would appreciate your opinion of them. So they share no cultural similarities as in eating similar foods and wearing similar clothing such as shalwar kameez? What about speaking dialects of the same language? That's not a similarity?

Perhaps, it is difficult for non Pothohari speakers to understand the dialect but that doesn't mean there would be no comprehension of the language.

What I find really curious is that you say Pothowar is ethnically dominated by Awans? Do you have a original source that says so?

 

[Kalyugi Mirza]

well in our side it is Dogri ....quite same to Punjabi...
Although i don't much abt Dogri as i was here in city from starting of my life.

i wiki it stated that Dogri was originally written using the Takri script,[4] which is closely related to the Sharada script employed by Kashmiri[4] and the Gurmukhī script used to write Punjabi. It is now more commonly written in Devanāgarī in India, and the Nasta'liq form of Perso-Arabic in Pakistan and Pakistani-administered Kashmir.

pls follow the link...
Dogri language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it's written style.
کنے

 

[Infiltrator]

i told you the reason why all research data shows that pothohari is dialect of punjabi.because we very much integrated into punjab,don't want separate province,economically are good,thats why never used ethnic,language or cultural card.
having said that it does not imply that we are same as punjabis.

That's not a fact-based reason. That's your opinion.

my intention was not to change the topic.some days ago you post on ethnic similarities b/w pak and indian punjab in another thread.i also did post on that thread but does reply you because of time constraints.so thats why referred to this thing.

Then why mention it or bring up something that is irrelevant to the discussion? You had some ulterior motive or reason for mentioning it other than for the sake of mentioning it.

listen dear,don't boil your blood for no reason.
your knowledge is based on internet,research and books,written by whom?his affiliations?from which reason author belongs?etc etc.

Boil my blood? Your making the assumption that I'm enraged for whatever reason?

Can't you bother reading the article I posted on Punjabi dialects? The research was done by George Abraham Grierson in his Linguistic Survey of India. I assume you believe there is some ridiculous agenda or bias in his research?

i father is from pothohar,mother is from lahore.i know my culture and people more than a person whose source of info is net and a person who never visited pak.
i am saying it again.being an american i appreciate your knowledge and effort.but please don't question the knowledge of local.

That's nice. Be sure to let your mother know what you think of Lahore Punjabis if she doesn't already know.

No, you may know more about your specific culture/aspect of overall Punjabi culture than me but even then it doesn't make you an authority on it. Again, stop resorting to a logical fallacy (ie argument by dismissal) by saying you automatically know more and your opinion is right because your a local and I'm not in this case.

Again, the people who compile research about Punjabi culture and the various regions of Pakistan have obviously been there or spent years of research on it. They're more entitled to make authoritative comments than either you or I.

 

[*Awan*]

I wonder how people from other parts of Punjab would react to your comments. I'm sure they would appreciate your opinion of them.

don't worry.we know each other very well.they them selves know these things but never mention them.

So they share no cultural similarities as in eating similar foods and wearing similar clothing such as shalwar kameez? What about speaking dialects of the same language? That's not a similarity?

you can apply same rule to baloch,pathans and sindhis.and when i said we have no similarities,i said we are different from punjabis.

Perhaps, it is difficult for non Pothohari speakers to understand the dialect but that doesn't mean there would be no comprehension of the language.

my dear why not you just ask a punjabi speaker to translate 1-2 min of video for you.dear you heared the names punjabis,pothohari,saraiki and we speak them.

What I find really curious is that you say Pothowar is ethnically dominated by Awans? Do you have a original source that says so?

extremely sorry.i try to find it on internet but can't.

 

[Infiltrator]

don't worry.we know each other very well.they them selves know these things but never mention them.

Am I suppose to take that as fact? Unless I hear it from Lahore Punjabis myself, I'm inclined to say it is your biased opinion.

you can apply same rule to baloch,pathans and sindhis.and when i said we have no similarities,i said we are different from punjabis.

No, you can't. The traditional food throughout the Punjabi region is different than in Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Sindh. The same thing applies to clothing as the traditional clothing in Balochistan and Sindh is not shalwar kameez as it is for essentially the entirety of the Punjab region. I'm not so sure on the traditional clothing of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa but it's shalwar kameez to my knowledge. Finally, the dialects of the Punjabi language are spoken throughout Punjab and they are closer to one another than to other languages in Pakistan.

You can think you're a different species in comparison to other Punjabis but it doesn't change the facts.

my dear why not you just ask a punjabi speaker to translate 1-2 min of video for you.dear you heared the names punjabis,pothohari,saraiki and we speak them.

Why? I already admitted the Pothohari dialect is bit difficult to comprehend but not entirely impossible for other Punjabi speakers to understand. Again, how would it be possible for Pothohari speakers to easily understand other dialects of Punjabi if they weren't dialects of the same language?

Saraiki is considered a separate language than Punjabi for linguistic reasons. How difficult is it to understand that? It's not because some ridiculous economic reason as you've suggested.

extremely sorry.i try to find it on internet but can't.

That's because it's your opinion. I've been told the Mirpur and Pothohari regions are ethnically dominated by Jatts, Gujjars and Rajputs. Doesn't mean that it is true.

 

[Omar1984]

Hey pahari guy... ur posting the pics of indian punjab..i havent seen those kind of clothes or jewelry in Punjab.. also ur forgetting southern punjab?

He is posting pictures of Indian Punjabis.

Pakistani Punjabi women dont wear jewlery and clothes like that. We wear the same clothes like rest of Pakistanis, SHALWAR KAMEEZ.

Indian Punjabi wear more colorful clothes, even the Indian Punjabi men, while most Pakistani Punjabi men wear the same white shalwar kameez like Pashtun men do.

Pahari guys seems to be desperate to divide Pakistanis. Pahari is a mountainous version of Punjabi, even look at the word "pahari"

 

[Omar1984]

That's because it's your opinion. I've been told the Mirpur and Pothohari regions are ethnically dominated by Jatts, Gujjars and Rajputs. Doesn't mean that it is true.

Yes most of Azad Kashmir and Northern Punjab are Gujar, Jat, Rajput, Malik, Syed, Arian, etc... same clans like rest of Punjab Province of Pakistan. The ethnic Kashmiris in Pakistan are mostly those who migrated from Kashmir Valley to Pakistan after 1948. People of Azad Kashmir are not ethnic Kashmiris, they share more similarities with Punjabis than Kashmiris.

 

[Infiltrator]

Yes most of Azad Kashmir and Northern Punjab are Gujar, Jat, Rajput, Malik, Syed, Arian, etc... same clans like rest of Punjab Province of Pakistan. The ethnic Kashmiris in Pakistan are mostly those who migrated from Kashmir Valley to Pakistan after 1948. People of Azad Kashmir are not ethnic Kashmiris, they share more similarities with Punjabis than Kashmiris.

I actually partially agree with you for once. Azad Kashmir (ie Mirpur) and Northern Punjab have the same sub-ethnic groups and tribes as the rest of Punjab. In this case, Gujjars, Jatts, Rajputs, Arian, etc. I still don't agree with you with about Maliks, Syeds, Quraishis, etc. They are honorific titles and not tribes or sub-ethnic groups. In the other thread, a Pakistani member even mentioned that his family holds one of these honorific titles and confirmed none of them are actually tribes or sub-ethnic groups of Punjabis.

I also agree with you about ethnic Kashmiris (Koshur) in Pakistan being the ones who immigrated from the Kashmir Valley in Jammu and Kashmir. These would be people with surnames like Butt, Dar, Rathore, Kher, Raina and Kaul. They're are some similarities between ethnic Kashmiris and Punjabis in terms of culture but for the most part their culture is different. To be honest, there are more genetic similarities between the populations than cultural similarities.

He is posting pictures of Indian Punjabis.
Pakistani Punjabi women dont wear jewlery and clothes like that. We wear the same clothes like rest of Pakistanis, SHALWAR KAMEEZ.

Indian Punjabi wear more colorful clothes, even the Indian Punjabi men, while most Pakistani Punjabi men wear the same white shalwar kameez like Pashtun men do.

Pahari guys seems to be desperate to divide Pakistanis. Pahari is a mountainous version of Punjabi, even look at the word "pahari"

Indian Punjabis don't wear colorful Salwar Kameez that often and it is mostly reserved for women on special occasions like wedding receptions, parties etc. Day to day wear are simple and plain Salwar Kameez. Although, colorful chunnis are common for women.

Also, Indian Punjabi men don't ever wear colorful Shalwar Kameez other than very special occasions and even then it is extremely rare. Furthermore, their Salwar Kameez is less colorful than that of Punjabi women. The most common day to day wear for Indian Punjabi men is a Kurta Pajama style Salwar Kameez which is usually worn in white or gray colors.

Anyways, I agree that Pothowari culture is just a more mountainous version of normal Punjabi culture.

 

[lem34]

I dont know about mirpuris but most of my friends potwari regard themselves as potwari and punjabi.

 

[Infiltrator]

I dont know about mirpuris but most of my friends potwari regard themselves as potwari and punjabi.

Mirpuris are Punjabis whether they believe it or not. The majority of them are from Jatt, Rajput, Gujjar, etc. backgrounds and their ancestors can be traced back to mainland Punjab. Some of them might be ethnic Kashmiris if their backgrounds and ancestors can be traced back to the Kashmir Valley. Not sure about what most Pothowaris consider themselves but they are basically just mountain/hill Punjabis.

 

[*Awan*]

That's not a fact-based reason. That's your opinion.

i told you the reason why this so called fact is so.

Then why mention it or bring up something that is irrelevant to the discussion? You had some ulterior motive or reason for mentioning it other than for the sake of mentioning it.

i did not have some ulterior motives.what i mentioned is just for a reference.

Boil my blood? Your making the assumption that I'm enraged for whatever reason?

Can't you bother reading the article I posted on Punjabi dialects? The research was done by George Abraham Grierson in his Linguistic Survey of India. I assume you believe there is some ridiculous agenda or bias in his research?

remember he done his work pre partition.keep this factor in mind.

That's nice. Be sure to let your mother know what you think of Lahore Punjabis if she doesn't already know. .

she is my mother lol.and no one know a person more than his mother.

No, you may know more about your specific culture/aspect of overall Punjabi culture than me but even then it doesn't make you an authority on it. Again, stop resorting to a logical fallacy (ie argument by dismissal) by saying you automatically know more and your opinion is right because your a local and I'm not in this case.

Again, the people who compile research about Punjabi culture and the various regions of Pakistan have obviously been there or spent years of research on it. They're more entitled to make authoritative comments than either you or I

see.in pakistan when a person speaks ten lines we can easily judge his background.from use of particular words we come to know his affiliations etc etc.for a foreigner all these things are beyond his comprehension level.