Postponed/Cancelled---"Kashmir, Palestine in the making" by Redfish

[ummarz]

TLDR:
1: Issue of release of this documentary became larger than life due to the label "Russian state affiliated"
2: The label is forced on this media house by twitter and Facebook to discourage people from watching their documentaries so that the MSM can control public opinion
3: They received death threats, and are postponing due to safety concerns for the crew and the participants.
END

- If they are saying that they are concerned about participant's safety, then I believe this is more of a cancellation.
- I never took sour online Indians too serious before, but slowly they are beginning to have a larger than deserved impact on the world.
- Will we sleep through genocide of Kashmir?
- The ability of India to stop this independent media house from releasing a documentary is a cause for grave concern.
- Can we do something at this stage to get them to release the documentary. I feel this time the last opportunity to shed light on Kashmir has been lost. Can we rescue it?
- When will we stop thinking, "that's ok I have things to do, some other Pakistani will do something about it..."

Link:
https://redfish.media/blog/2912/

 

[Titanium100]

But why not whole of INDIA.......... Because if you lay claim on kashmir it doesn't make logical sense? Because if you recognize the partition deal then JK is and has always been with India just like Delhi, agra etc etc...

But if you are saying my ancestors held India and i don't recognize partition deal based on that then you have claim on all of India...

because technically there is no difference between kashmir and delhi..... Both territories held by PK ancestors in fact all of India...

I Disagree with the partial false claim on JK but if you say i don't recognize the whole partition deal then we talking correctly claiming all of India as part of the Pakistani hertige on behalf of Delhi sultanate and Mughal empire..

JK has always belonged to India unless you don't recognize the whole partition agreement meaning you can claim all of India

 

[ummarz]

But why not whole of INDIA.......... Because if you lay claim on ksshmir it doesn't make logical sense? Because if you recognize the partition deal then JK is and has always been with them just like Delhi, agra etc etc...

But if you are saying my ancestors held India and i don't recognize then you have claim on all of India...

because technically there is no difference between kashmir and delhi..... Both territories held by PK ancestors in fact all of India...

Disagree with the partial false claim on JK but if you say i don't recognize the whole partition deal then we talking correctly claiming all of India as part of the Pakistani hertige on behalf of Delhi sultanate and Mughal empire

I am sorry I don't know what you are talking about.
People of Kashmir want the right to self determination. UN promises them that right according to the UN resolution. They have a legitimate struggle and I want everyone to help them get what is their right.

 

[Adonis]

I am sorry I don't know what you are talking about.
People of Kashmir want the right to self determination. UN promises them that right according to the UN resolution. They have a legitimate struggle and I want everyone to help them get what is their right.

Read UN resolution...it's more on Pakistan to do first before pabliciete.

 

[SIPRA]

Kashmir issue would be resolved by violent act and aggression, not by negotiations or other peaceful means.

 

[Tomtheguy]

Kashmir issue would be resolved by violent act and aggression, not by negotiations or other peaceful means.

Cute reply .

Now please start elaborating how will u achieve that , it's been long since I have read those Kashmir fateh plans . I would love to read your detailed battle formation description and your iron brother angle to it

 

[ummarz]

India is a 75 year old concept it is the name of a relative geographic region used by it's conquerors. I mean for f sake it's named after a river that's not even in that country. A few centuries of British rule, a millennia of Muslim rule before that. India either as the multiethnic/religious state it resembles today or even as a Hindu polity comprising the entirety of the modern states of India has never existed before. Kashmir like most other states and principalities of the Indian Subcontinent was dominated by unelected, often tyrannical, unjust and infamously decadent men appointed by foreign monarchs. Indians take great pride in being the largest democracy in the world and celebrate Gandhi for resisting the Monarchy it's ironic that their only legal defense for owning Kashmir is crying that we unjustly took our haqq from a monarch who was not even muslim and served the British at a time when the whole world was gaining independence from Britain. The only reason India has half of Kashmir is because THEY rejected the terms of partition, their only claim whatsoever to Kashmir and their attempt to snatch Kashmir was that Hari Singh's rule was legitimate and owed succession to India or had the right to choose for his Muslim subjects who are excited about this new democracy thing which country they get to live in. Either that or what we have always alleged is true, and India does not and will never respect Pakistan's right to existence under the definition we gave ourselves when we were created

No one said that

Not sure what "claims" means in this context. We the Muslims (the only lens from which you will hear a Pakistani refer to their own heritage after first contact of Islam and our people) in various different races and states conquered India, who is ancestor of who is irrelevant and I have yet to see a Pakistani talk about anything like that it's always Persians or Arabs or Indians speaking for us and making assumptions. We are Muslims, our country is one of the two in the world created solely on the identity of and for a religion. We want Kashmir because they're Muslims besieged by Hindu rulers which is precisely what Pakistan was made to prevent.


What a strange take. I have never in my life heard someone argue for Pakistan's claim on Kashmir based on anything to do with ancestors or 'Pakistani Heritage'. Kashmir is part of what we claim to be Pakistan because it was one of the contiguous majority muslim lands west of Hindu and Sikh lands, east of other countries. The borders of Pakistan when considering the demographics of the area and the political reality on all borders make perfect sense to us. And what do you mean "recognize the partition agreement" we are the ones who forced the partition out of India LOL they never wanted 2 countries carved out of their eastern and western flanks but against all odds (and if you've seen any English political literature from the 20th century you'll know it was against the will of the British too for the Muslims of the subcontinent to be independent) we claimed all the lands we have today except Kashmir alhamdulillah, took them, and defended them through 5+ major wars involving 2 superpowers on all borders. And our claim over Kashmir is just as solid and logical as the other 4 provinces the only thing that makes it different is India wasn't able to stop the partition in time in those places. In Kashmir they had a planted ruler so these "democracy loving" Mfs could fight it.

Well said. To add to the Indian hypocrisy, they forcefully took control of Hyderabad where the muslim leader was asked his opinion to join India or Pakistan, and he chose Pakistan even though he chose to remain independent!

 

[SIPRA]

Cute reply .

Now please start elaborating how will u achieve that , it's been long since I have read those Kashmir fateh plans . I would love to read your detailed battle formation description and your iron brother angle to it

Better adopt a habit of reading and comprehending a post, before responding to it, in a knee-jerk fashion, based upon your own inherent insecurities, prejudices and misperceptions. Your whole post is totally unrelated and irrelevant to my post. Reread my post.

.... and he chose Pakistan.

That is not correct. Nizam of Hyderabad didn't give "Instrument of Accession" to Pakistan. He intended to keep Hyderabad as an independent and sovereign country.

 

[Tomtheguy]

Better adopt a habit of reading and comprehending a post, before responding to it, in a knee-jerk fashion, based upon your own inherent insecurities, prejudices and misperceptions. Your whole post is totally

So what violent act you want to describe ? Which you haven't tried yet ?

 

[.King.]

Cute reply .

Now please start elaborating how will u achieve that , it's been long since I have read those Kashmir fateh plans . I would love to read your detailed battle formation description and your iron brother angle to it

I agree with him though. If India takes Kashmir (or Pakistan takes it like I assume the poster thought), it will be through violence, not through discussion.

Sure. We survived 75 years of attrition against an India with vastly superior numbers, industry, technology and land area/coastline all because of grit and strategy alone. Now we are surpassing you in key technology fields too what will you do now?

You are no longer strategic allies with Russia and will inevitably drift from their camp but you are also awkwardly stuck in the initial limbo of becoming an American strategic partner against China and so for at least 10 years will suffer major setbacks in acquiring cutting edge defense technologies. For example Pakistan with a fraction of your budget has already set up a space AND artificial intelligence command center to receive, interpret and relay vast amounts of satellite data to be streamed to Rawalpindi from Chinese Sats as part of our wider combined synchronized operations. India meanwhile is only in the Memorandum of Understanding phase of such an intelligence sharing agreement with America and Nato. Neither are its own satellites even half as capable as any available to China (and now by extension, to Pakistan). China now has one of the most robust fleets of military satellites in the world racing towards unparalleled resolution and operational flexibility. We will be able to see your ships, missile launchers and all other kinds of targets hours before you can see ours for the next several years. Everyone knows how important information gathering is in 21st century warfare. Does India have the balls to shoot down a Chinese satellite in the middle of a war with Pakistan? If not then we have an unobstructed visual and thermal view of vast swathes of India at a time at our disposal for the entirety of any war.

You have no access to 5th Generation technology yourself or from any allies. Russia will certainly think twice selling any future stealth fighters to a major emerging ally of The West and a future operator of modern American aircraft. Yeah I get it project checkmate is looking for foreign co-signees to launch the development but please don't pretend the geostrategic weight of deciding to sell jets to Gulf sheikhs for use against unarmed farmers is the same as India for use against Pakistan and potentially China. I simply cannot see it happening in the future we seem to be drifting towards. America certainly will not sell it's F35 to a country that has an extremely good chance of actually using it against not any old near peer adversary but the US' own arch Nemesis. The risk of technology being captured is extremely high and considering the F35 well into the future will still have the most cutting edge American stealth coating technology and the next generation of jets aren't even near ready for America let alone for export to India, we can rule America out of potential sources of ready made 5th gen shit to india. Pakistan has China, Turkey AND Russia to look to for either procurement of ready made solutions, assistance in our own program or the creation of a joint program. Russia is unlikely but who knows what the geopolitical situation will be when checkmate starts taking off for real. China is very likely for procurement and very likely to give PAC technical assistance on any future 5th gen venture should project AZM be rebooted or something similar.

You have no access to hypersonic super maneuverable re entry vehicle or glide vehicle technology from anyone your closest strategic ally the USA are themselves many years away from even getting their footing in this arms race. Meanwhile the chinese are making and exporting kinetic capabilities lightyears ahead of anything India has yet dreamed of. Major breakthroughs being made every few months from studies being published on satellite guidance of cruise missiles to new techniques of molding titanium powder quickly into inlet shape. Even the fkn North Koreans who just a few years ago were operating missiles that look like something out of a 50s soviet propoganda poster are now testing hypersonic glide vehicles that can reach the West coast of America. Definitely Chinese export. And what do you think is stopping China from exporting such a game changing weapon to Pakistan against our mutual nemesis? These missiles do not even violate any non proliferation or missile control treaties given we hardly need any range on them.

Lots of issues with this.

1)By some weird logic, you believe that bare "survival" is an achievement.

2)We already have quite a few 5th gen tech. We did a project with the russians, PAKFA, which was going to be a jet similar to SU57. We walked away because we felt we could do a better job by doing it ourself, with access to tech from other sources too. First flight in 2024 means that most tech is sorted, just has to be integrated well.

3)India has already tested hypersonic scramjet Technology demonstrator (HSTDV). Will take a few years but going to get there easily now.

 

[Tomtheguy]

I agree with him though. If India takes Kashmir (or Pakistan takes it like I assume the poster thought), it will be through violence, not through discussion.

But will anyone will do so , why still persist on a issue which you can't solve .

Sure. We survived 75 years of attrition against an India with vastly superior numbers, industry, technology and land area/coastline all because of grit and strategy alone. Now we are surpassing you in key technology fields too what will you do now?

You are no longer strategic allies with Russia and will inevitably drift from their camp but you are also awkwardly stuck in the initial limbo of becoming an American strategic partner against China and so for at least 10 years will suffer major setbacks in acquiring cutting edge defense technologies. For example Pakistan with a fraction of your budget has already set up a space AND artificial intelligence command center to receive, interpret and relay vast amounts of satellite data to be streamed to Rawalpindi from Chinese Sats as part of our wider combined synchronized operations. India meanwhile is only in the Memorandum of Understanding phase of such an intelligence sharing agreement with America and Nato. Neither are its own satellites even half as capable as any available to China (and now by extension, to Pakistan). China now has one of the most robust fleets of military satellites in the world racing towards unparalleled resolution and operational flexibility. We will be able to see your ships, missile launchers and all other kinds of targets hours before you can see ours for the next several years. Everyone knows how important information gathering is in 21st century warfare. Does India have the balls to shoot down a Chinese satellite in the middle of a war with Pakistan? If not then we have an unobstructed visual and thermal view of vast swathes of India at a time at our disposal for the entirety of any war.

You have no access to 5th Generation technology yourself or from any allies. Russia will certainly think twice selling any future stealth fighters to a major emerging ally of The West and a future operator of modern American aircraft. Yeah I get it project checkmate is looking for foreign co-signees to launch the development but please don't pretend the geostrategic weight of deciding to sell jets to Gulf sheikhs for use against unarmed farmers is the same as India for use against Pakistan and potentially China. I simply cannot see it happening in the future we seem to be drifting towards. America certainly will not sell it's F35 to a country that has an extremely good chance of actually using it against not any old near peer adversary but the US' own arch Nemesis. The risk of technology being captured is extremely high and considering the F35 well into the future will still have the most cutting edge American stealth coating technology and the next generation of jets aren't even near ready for America let alone for export to India, we can rule America out of potential sources of ready made 5th gen shit to india. Pakistan has China, Turkey AND Russia to look to for either procurement of ready made solutions, assistance in our own program or the creation of a joint program. Russia is unlikely but who knows what the geopolitical situation will be when checkmate starts taking off for real. China is very likely for procurement and very likely to give PAC technical assistance on any future 5th gen venture should project AZM be rebooted or something similar.

You have no access to hypersonic super maneuverable re entry vehicle or glide vehicle technology from anyone your closest strategic ally the USA are themselves many years away from even getting their footing in this arms race. Meanwhile the chinese are making and exporting kinetic capabilities lightyears ahead of anything India has yet dreamed of. Major breakthroughs being made every few months from studies being published on satellite guidance of cruise missiles to new techniques of molding titanium powder quickly into inlet shape. Even the fkn North Koreans who just a few years ago were operating missiles that look like something out of a 50s soviet propoganda poster are now testing hypersonic glide vehicles that can reach the West coast of America. Definitely Chinese export. And what do you think is stopping China from exporting such a game changing weapon to Pakistan against our mutual nemesis? These missiles do not even violate any non proliferation or missile control treaties given we hardly need any range on them.

To sum up your argument ,i can say that "china has the tech , and you are iron brother so u will get the tech , that's the whole argument right , thanks for clarification .

 

[Titanium100]

India is a 75 year old concept it is the name of a relative geographic region used by it's conquerors. I mean for f sake it's named after a river that's not even in that country. A few centuries of British rule, a millennia of Muslim rule before that. India either as the multiethnic/religious state it resembles today or even as a Hindu polity comprising the entirety of the modern states of India has never existed before. Kashmir like most other states and principalities of the Indian Subcontinent was dominated by unelected, often tyrannical, unjust and infamously decadent men appointed by foreign monarchs. Indians take great pride in being the largest democracy in the world and celebrate Gandhi for resisting the Monarchy it's ironic that their only legal defense for owning Kashmir is crying that we unjustly took our haqq from a monarch who was not even muslim and served the British at a time when the whole world was gaining independence from Britain. The only reason India has half of Kashmir is because THEY rejected the terms of partition, their only claim whatsoever to Kashmir and their attempt to snatch Kashmir was that Hari Singh's rule was legitimate and owed succession to India or had the right to choose for his Muslim subjects who are excited about this new democracy thing which country they get to live in. Either that or what we have always alleged is true, and India does not and will never respect Pakistan's right to existence under the definition we gave ourselves when we were created

No one said that

Not sure what "claims" means in this context. We the Muslims (the only lens from which you will hear a Pakistani refer to their own heritage after first contact of Islam and our people) in various different races and states conquered India, who is ancestor of who is irrelevant and I have yet to see a Pakistani talk about anything like that it's always Persians or Arabs or Indians speaking for us and making assumptions. We are Muslims, our country is one of the two in the world created solely on the identity of and for a religion. We want Kashmir because they're Muslims besieged by Hindu rulers which is precisely what Pakistan was made to prevent.


What a strange take. I have never in my life heard someone argue for Pakistan's claim on Kashmir based on anything to do with ancestors or 'Pakistani Heritage'. Kashmir is part of what we claim to be Pakistan because it was one of the contiguous majority muslim lands west of Hindu and Sikh lands, east of other countries. The borders of Pakistan when considering the demographics of the area and the political reality on all borders make perfect sense to us. And what do you mean "recognize the partition agreement" we are the ones who forced the partition out of India LOL they never wanted 2 countries carved out of their eastern and western flanks but against all odds (and if you've seen any English political literature from the 20th century you'll know it was against the will of the British too for the Muslims of the subcontinent to be independent) we claimed all the lands we have today except Kashmir alhamdulillah, took them, and defended them through 5+ major wars involving 2 superpowers on all borders. And our claim over Kashmir is just as solid and logical as the other 4 provinces the only thing that makes it different is India wasn't able to stop the partition in time in those places. In Kashmir they had a planted ruler so these "democracy loving" Mfs could fight it.

what a horse shit you can´t claim on religious lines then why not include Nizam of Hyderabad, Carnetic nisab, mysore, Awdh state, and mughal held areas which included delhi and north india hence all these territories were muslim majority... not to forget bengal sultanate territories...

Pakistan only signed BD leaving the remaining behind even a tiny bit of bengal sultanate was signed to so-called hero of pakistan..

Jinnah was a fraud imho many pakistanis will never admit it...

He was a collabartor and liberated India with the pen resetting things back to Muhammed of Ghor border lines undoing nearly 700 years of Ghor period...

He is responsible for Islam in the area including the expansion and jinnah did the opposite whereas ghor expanded thru out india Jinnah tried as much as he could to roll us back to pre-1192 borders.....

Claims on Kashmir was bs and generational long propaganda and Jinnah is behind it in order to cover his tracks and district ppl he came up with this kashmir card in order to shield mainland india from further invasions... besides i think he was a secret society member..

 

[Tomtheguy]

I am thrilled that ordinary buckethead Indians like you underestimate our current and future capabilities lol this is the reason you will bleed. I dare you to say here today that China will not export these 3 technologies I listed to Pakistan in the next decade. This forum is here forever and we will see Gangu

No actually I want you guys to militarize faster , look what 75 yrs of heavy escalation has brought u , i want u guys to fight for it harder and buy more and more weapons

Lahore one of our biggest and most strategically crucial cities that you could single handedly end a war by taking, is 15 miles from your border. With 6x our population 3x our land area 5x our defense budget in 75 years and 3 full scale wars you have never been able to take those 15 miles with all your numerical and technological strength. Israel gets praised for facing incompetent, ill equipped, unmotivated and treacherous Arabs against similar odds but beating back a foe 5x your size is not an achievement for Pakistan? With a fraction of the aid? Funny.

You walked away from SU57 thinking you could do better Please give me a break. Today after 30 years you are still struggling to induct your first light combat aircraft. Just look at the closeups of the metalwork on the Tejas. Modern aircraft engineers especially ones concerned with the "semi stealth" capability the Tejas claims think about the placement and size of each and every screw on the surface of the jet. There are paint bubbles, blemishes, scratches, protrusions the size of a finger everywhere on this sh1t I'm not sure what crack you are smoking but India is not getting it's first stealth fighter flight in 2024 please read about stealth programs lol

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/workmanship-on-hal-tejas-still-poor.731704/#post-13489235

Yes yes rocket engineering is that easy just because Ganguu sahab said so India will have a complete hypersonic program. You buffoon even America is half a decade behind China (who we will certainly buy these from) what Vedic ancient technology do you have to outrun both China and America in this race?

Ever heard of x 51 ?? And we'll i don't think importing weapons is a good option , we are eliminating this problem slowly now , bu u guys should buy weapons from china .

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) knows what india have in technology , or visit drdo related thread on any Indian forum

 

[SIPRA]

So what violent act you want to describe ? Which you haven't tried yet ?

Again, I say, reread my post. Where do, the queries, you are raising, arise out of my post?

 

[Tomtheguy]

Again, I say, reread my post. Where do, the queries, you are raising, arise out of my post?

You said that solution of Kashmir can only happen through violence methods , i am just requesting you to elaborate on those means