Possibility of F-35 for Pakistan Air Force

[PakAlp]

There's no realistic route for US aircraft at this time.

The PAF's only real next-gen options are either (1) go with the Chinese J-35 or J-21 or (2) work with the Turks on the TFX. The bare simplest option is the Chinese, but we won't learn a single thing and we'll be stuck (for yet another generation) relying on others. The Turks, on the other hand, are higher-risk and higher-cost (at least if we want to get serious workshare), but much higher reward (e.g., the potential for multi-billion-dollar aircraft production work in Pakistan, a heavyweight stealthy fighter, etc).

We should pick one of those two options for a 2030-2035 timeframe and, in parallel, work on our very own indigenous fighter for 2040-2045. For the latter, we should invest in feeder industries (e.g., gas turbines, IC manufacturing, composites, advanced steel, etc) that will propel our exports and help us fund our country and domestic defence programs. Those feeder industries will lay the groundwork for our own fighter.

I don't understand why Pakistan is slow regarding adding new technologies. We should be encouraging China to make J35 in partnership with us, if Pakistan also invests then am sure China will make the fighter faster than currently stalled project. J35 by 2035 is late because Usa/Europe will be adding 6th generation fighters. We need J35 by 2028 and then we can concentrate on 6th generation by 2045/2047. Adding 6th generation jet on our 100 years anniversary would be great, hopefully will be landing on the moon too.

Pakistan is blessed to have the Chinese and Turkish options, both great projects.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

With due respect, the case I am building for F-35 is for the future, somewhere in the mid-2030s, at that time even the F-16's V will be old and neighboring countries moving to 5th Gen one way or another, F-16's V/72's would either come in next couple of years or they won't at all, but in this particular thread i am exploring the option which is beyond 2030's timeline.


Yaar, Do you guys even read the thread before commenting on it? I am talking about procurement in the timeline of 2030's, F-16's future in PAF will be decided within this decade, but in 2030's PAF won't be looking for F-16's.

The pentagon thinks twice before offering F-35 to even Israel, Saudi, Japan etc why do you think they will be ready to sell Pakistan their F-35 so easily?

 

[Goritoes]

The pentagon thinks twice before offering F-35 to even Israel, Saudi, Japan etc why do you think they will be ready to sell Pakistan their F-35 so easily?

Israel is out of the question, they have access to everything the US produces. Saudi can easily buy F-35's in the coming decade, as for Japan they got them. For Pakistan a country that has complicated relationship with US I am arguing for when and if things settle down between them two, and with a better Pakistani economic situation.

There's no realistic route for US aircraft at this time.

The PAF's only real next-gen options are either (1) go with the Chinese J-35 or J-21 or (2) work with the Turks on the TFX. The bare simplest option is the Chinese, but we won't learn a single thing and we'll be stuck (for yet another generation) relying on others. The Turks, on the other hand, are higher-risk and higher-cost (at least if we want to get serious workshare), but much higher reward (e.g., the potential for multi-billion-dollar aircraft production work in Pakistan, a heavyweight stealthy fighter, etc).

We should pick one of those two options for a 2030-2035 timeframe and, in parallel, work on our very own indigenous fighter for 2040-2045. For the latter, we should invest in feeder industries (e.g., gas turbines, IC manufacturing, composites, advanced steel, etc) that will propel our exports and help us fund our country and domestic defence programs. Those feeder industries will lay the groundwork for our own fighter.

Based on history, we know that if PAF got chance to get their hands on F-16V, with partial payment from CSF, they will take it, and we also know that time and time again Pakistan has compromised some of its national projects for the sake of American hardware, its just the Quality and their love for American products, a Sqd of F-35's offered to PAF in mid 2030's and they will get it in a heartbeat, PAF train with America they rely on American fighters to keep an enemy 10 times bigger then them, so its just that love is hard to pass by.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Israel is out of the question, they have access to everything the US produces. Saudi can easily buy F-35's in the coming decade, as for Japan they got them. For Pakistan a country that has complicated relationship with US I am arguing for when and if things settle down between them two, and with a better Pakistani economic situation.


Based on history, we know that if PAF got chance to get their hands on F-16V, with partial payment from CSF, they will take it, and we also know that time and time again Pakistan has compromised some of its national projects for the sake of American hardware, its just the Quality and their love for American products, a Sqd of F-35's offered to PAF in mid 2030's and they will get it in a heartbeat, PAF train with America they rely on American fighters to keep an enemy 10 times bigger then them, so its just that love is hard to pass by.

It's all contingent on the US offering or agreeing though. Sadly, that isn't the situation right now, and we don't have any real signs that it will change. It might, but we don't know.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Now I know from the title, many of PDFians will be getting ready for trolling me or this thread, You guys almost typed your cheeky one-liners and Indians already bring their old argument of " Where is the money "? Buts let's discuss this notion for what it is worth. I will propose a couple of scenarios where it might be possible for the Pakistan Air force to get F-35's from the USA, So hear me out and also without trolling discuss the possibility by providing realistic approaches for this endeavor.

Scenario 1) As we know that US seems to be trying to pack its stuff from Afghanistan and leave, as much as I support the idea of bringing US troops home, something is not adding up for me, but in a hypothetical scenario what if (God Forbid) another massive Terror Attack hit America and its connection goes back to Pak-Afghan border regions? The US will definitely stay and then it will again come to if Pakistan will corporate or not (With us or against us) notion can come up again, but this time Pakistan's situation won't be as dire as it was back in 2001, Chinese Influence was minimum at that time along with their economical assistance, Russia was hesitant in building any relationship with Pakistan, Turkey was there but not as influential as they are today, so this time maybe US might use a different approach to Pakistan decision-makers (GHQ), and offer CSF, Financial and Military Aid, releasing all Military hardware which was held from Pakistan within a span of 1-3 years, and if this war sees the intensity and US keep relying on Pakistan to provide bases, Air space and route for US supplies then along the way (by end of this decade) maybe US will offer F-35's (18 units) similar to F-16's block 52's a sqd to PAF.

Scenario 2) America always used leverage on countries to do their bidding, there is no secret it that, they did this with every country except Israel, now in past several years the relationship between US-PAK has gone from bad to worse, and trust is as low as between Trump and Melania, with CPEC becoming Operational and Chinese replacing Americans in Pakistan from Financial Aid to Military hardware, the US think tanks might see this as another important ally going into Chinese camp, they might try to butter Pakistan in future because their Stick policy has not been that fruitful and it pushes Pakistan way to deeper in Chinese Camp. Specifically in Military hardware among many development and success of JF-17 stand out taller than any other procurement by Pakistan from China, and now as JF-17 block 3 ready to roll out with AESA and other modern goodies it is a matter of pride for Pakistan but concern for West especially America, not because JF carries some Alien technology but the Independency Pakistan enjoys with their own fighter, no sanctions can hurt this program, no spare parts issues, no weapon integration and definitely no Kill Switches (only for @SQ8 ) All that experience, going into Project Azm which is the end game for PAF, developing a 5th Generation fighter, now when PAF chief told us that his vision is for PAF is to have 5th generation Air force by 2040, the actual catch here is that the independency which PAF is looking forward to, having 5th Generation fighter is not an issue after 2030, but building it at home through a sanction free supply chain is massive, which means Pakistan is taking away that one thing US always enjoy over weaker and financially starve nations like Pakistan, Leverage. So keeping PAF going from AZM, not because once again that AZM will bring some Alien tech to the table but bar Pakistan from getting fully independent over its Future Generation Fighter program they might bring an offer to the table which top brass at PAF won't be able to refuse, something like 1-2 Sqs of F-35 in a similar way they provide F-16's with US teams station at PAF bases to keep Chinese away from getting a glimpse of the tech.

Scenario 3) Pakistan become financially stable, the economy picks up and exports increase along with Foreign reserves, CPEC attracts more countries to invest, security situation improve amid Afghan Peace, some sort of Peace deal with India is signed and a political/diplomatic approach to Kashmir is taken by both parties, hence the ties between US and Pakistan improve as after the Afghan withdrawal there is a chance that America stops seeing Pakistan through the lens of Afghanistan, but as a separate country with its own national interest, and as ties improve and Pakistani's pockets become healthier they can approach US with a proposal of a couple of Sqs of F-35's as Indians by mid-2030s will have their own plans in motion to transform their Air forces into a full 5th Generation Air force, leaving Pakistan behind will tilt the balance of Power in the region hence push Pakistan to test more Nukes and missile to keep that minimum deterrence against India.

Feel free to add any other scenario you seem fit, and Please avoid the typical arguments such as Pakistan is poor, etc, everyone knows that and the whole idea of this thread is to discuss some hypothetical scenario's not getting into some same old arguments.

Also, feel free to discuss the integration process such as building up infrastructure in PAC kamra to support F-35's, supply lines, weapon integrations, EW suites etc

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @dbc @SQ8 @The Eagle @araz @Windjammer

Another Scenario 4 ) Pakistan renames JF-17 to F-35P.

 

[Trango Towers]

If we had zero option we should stay away from American sanction prone crap. F35 is a dodo

 

[mudas777]

Wet dream, dry dream and now American dream. How many times some one have to screw us before we listen and learn, apparently not. Two squadrons or two hundred squadrons for me answer is the same and is "No thank you". We must stick to our own road map of building aviation industry and there is no substitute to "Made In Pakistan". Am sure F 35 is a brilliant fighting machine all sleek and sexy but ask your mum will she be happy for you getting married with a gori. Its all matter of trust, reliability and independence and one must not depend on others and others toys to safe guard your country independence which is most precious. Two years down the line they will block the spare parts for a trivial reason and then those planes are not worth more then a junk metal to be sold in kilo's in the Kabari Bazars. I rather send my son in the air in a K 8 knowing well he have got less then 1% chance of surviving then in F 35 worrying plane have got a kill switch, hijack switch or any other controlling mechanism so he doesn't looses the battle before he had the chance to fight one. Am sure there are plenty of glossy marketing ads about F 35 and we all fall for it and latter on regret it, same is the case here we just have to plough through and find our own desi F 35 alternative.

 

[Vapnope]

There is only one scenario for US to sell us F35 and that is if US wants to punish India and wants an enmity with her, for whatever reasons, no other scenario would compel US to sell their top fighter to Pakistan. I think even in that scenario, Pakistan would not be trusted that much

 

[Jobless Jack]

There is only one scenario for US to sell us F35 and that is if US wants to punish India and wants an enmity with her, for whatever reasons, no other scenario would compel US to sell their top fighter to Pakistan. I think even in that scenario, Pakistan would not be trusted that much

Better off investing in J 35.

And anyway OP assumes a lot..

2030 is a long way. Things change.

Look at the world today

In 2010 did we know that the Chinese will be challenging the supremacy of the USD ? No. Back in 2010 it was a delusion. Yet here we are 10 years later.

 

[LeGenD]

@Goritoes

Pakistan and USA are unable to find sufficient common grounds to cultivate a lasting partnership. I do not see the possibility of USA offering F-35 to Pakistan. Pakistan will have to manage with Russian and Chinese technologies in the foreseeable future. Let us see.

Let us also hope and pray that USA does not experience repeat of 9/11 via culprits linked to Afghan Taliban in any capacity. Your Scenario 1 assumptions are unrealistic.

 

[Signalian]

So technically there is a possibility that if and its a big if that once the relationship between the two nations are back on track whether because of good will or some incident that bring them closer again, there is a chance where PAF gets a offer of base model of F-35's with possible options for upgrades like F-16's, the reason why we can not mix Pakistan with MErn countries is that they were sitting on Oil, they offer US unlimited access to their land, bases and oil to extract which earn them some fancy toys from US, also US need bases and their allies in ME throughout the 2000's when Arab spring was at its peak. Pakistan holds only one leverage and that is Afghanistan, and that too is going to fade soon if US commits to exit.

I don't want to get into argument about Where the Chinese will stand in mid-2030's they sure won't be where US will be, cause the Advancement of US is just to big for the Chinese to catch up to, they are yet to build a decent Engine for their 4+ and 5th Gen fighters that has enough to show the disparity between two nation. As for Project Azm, where it would stand depends on many factors which include economy, security, peace and stability in Pakistan, we are even in this 2020's struggling to pay for Top-Notch Chinese Project, and if things don't improve for good we won't be able to put any money on R&D's which is the backbone of making AZM, unless PAF just wants to buy J-31's off the shelf paint it and call its AZM. If AZM shows potential then there is a high chance US might approach Pakistan to put their F-35 as PAF 5th Gen fighter rather then going full AZM way which will remove the dependency of PAF from America, lets not forget that F-16's by most will fly in PAF by 2030's, and after that US lost their one last leverage on PAF and what I learn from Americans they like keeping leverage on their allies.

Base model F-35 ? What's the use of an aircraft if its not sanctioned timely upgrades. It becomes more of a liability than an asset. With aircraft, its just not the upgrades in avionics and sensors but also the weapons package like SOMs including long range A2A missiles and EW pods. The upgrades as well as newer blocks (versions) of an aircraft makes it a very potent machine with modern times. A fully equipped J-31 with all tech and goodies might be a better solution than a watered down handicapped version of F-35.

Americans didn't show up to release more F-16s when JF-17 was being inducted, or the rumors of J-10 induction surfaced or even after Azm kicked off. So I cant figure out how USA would release F-35s over Azm/J-31. As for F-16s flying till 2030s -if PAF can drag a 3rd gen aircraft Mirage III/V for 65+ years, wait and watch what PAF will do with a 4th gen aircraft. USA's chess play is Afghanistan, not F-16s. PAF has been given JF-17 to counter F-16 embargo threat so USA lost the F-16 leverage the day JF-17 was inducted in PAF.

Did you also keep credit line of purchasing these F-35s in mind ? Chinese and Turks can offer favorable solutions.

 

[jupiter2007]

Now I know from the title, many of PDFians will be getting ready for trolling me or this thread, You guys almost typed your cheeky one-liners and Indians already bring their old argument of " Where is the money "? Buts let's discuss this notion for what it is worth. I will propose a couple of scenarios where it might be possible for the Pakistan Air force to get F-35's from the USA, So hear me out and also without trolling discuss the possibility by providing realistic approaches for this endeavor.

Scenario 1) As we know that US seems to be trying to pack its stuff from Afghanistan and leave, as much as I support the idea of bringing US troops home, something is not adding up for me, but in a hypothetical scenario what if (God Forbid) another massive Terror Attack hit America and its connection goes back to Pak-Afghan border regions? The US will definitely stay and then it will again come to if Pakistan will corporate or not (With us or against us) notion can come up again, but this time Pakistan's situation won't be as dire as it was back in 2001, Chinese Influence was minimum at that time along with their economical assistance, Russia was hesitant in building any relationship with Pakistan, Turkey was there but not as influential as they are today, so this time maybe US might use a different approach to Pakistan decision-makers (GHQ), and offer CSF, Financial and Military Aid, releasing all Military hardware which was held from Pakistan within a span of 1-3 years, and if this war sees the intensity and US keep relying on Pakistan to provide bases, Air space and route for US supplies then along the way (by end of this decade) maybe US will offer F-35's (18 units) similar to F-16's block 52's a sqd to PAF.

Scenario 2) America always used leverage on countries to do their bidding, there is no secret it that, they did this with every country except Israel, now in past several years the relationship between US-PAK has gone from bad to worse, and trust is as low as between Trump and Melania, with CPEC becoming Operational and Chinese replacing Americans in Pakistan from Financial Aid to Military hardware, the US think tanks might see this as another important ally going into Chinese camp, they might try to butter Pakistan in future because their Stick policy has not been that fruitful and it pushes Pakistan way to deeper in Chinese Camp. Specifically in Military hardware among many development and success of JF-17 stand out taller than any other procurement by Pakistan from China, and now as JF-17 block 3 ready to roll out with AESA and other modern goodies it is a matter of pride for Pakistan but concern for West especially America, not because JF carries some Alien technology but the Independency Pakistan enjoys with their own fighter, no sanctions can hurt this program, no spare parts issues, no weapon integration and definitely no Kill Switches (only for @SQ8 ) All that experience, going into Project Azm which is the end game for PAF, developing a 5th Generation fighter, now when PAF chief told us that his vision is for PAF is to have 5th generation Air force by 2040, the actual catch here is that the independency which PAF is looking forward to, having 5th Generation fighter is not an issue after 2030, but building it at home through a sanction free supply chain is massive, which means Pakistan is taking away that one thing US always enjoy over weaker and financially starve nations like Pakistan, Leverage. So keeping PAF going from AZM, not because once again that AZM will bring some Alien tech to the table but bar Pakistan from getting fully independent over its Future Generation Fighter program they might bring an offer to the table which top brass at PAF won't be able to refuse, something like 1-2 Sqs of F-35 in a similar way they provide F-16's with US teams station at PAF bases to keep Chinese away from getting a glimpse of the tech.

Scenario 3) Pakistan become financially stable, the economy picks up and exports increase along with Foreign reserves, CPEC attracts more countries to invest, security situation improve amid Afghan Peace, some sort of Peace deal with India is signed and a political/diplomatic approach to Kashmir is taken by both parties, hence the ties between US and Pakistan improve as after the Afghan withdrawal there is a chance that America stops seeing Pakistan through the lens of Afghanistan, but as a separate country with its own national interest, and as ties improve and Pakistani's pockets become healthier they can approach US with a proposal of a couple of Sqs of F-35's as Indians by mid-2030s will have their own plans in motion to transform their Air forces into a full 5th Generation Air force, leaving Pakistan behind will tilt the balance of Power in the region hence push Pakistan to test more Nukes and missile to keep that minimum deterrence against India.

Feel free to add any other scenario you seem fit, and Please avoid the typical arguments such as Pakistan is poor, etc, everyone knows that and the whole idea of this thread is to discuss some hypothetical scenario's not getting into some same old arguments.

Also, feel free to discuss the integration process such as building up infrastructure in PAC kamra to support F-35's, supply lines, weapon integrations, EW suites etc

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @dbc @SQ8 @The Eagle @araz @Windjammer

Cost of F-35 will be to compromise on nuculear weapons and give airforce bases to uncle sam to keep an eye on Afghanistan and China.
Are we willing to do that?

We have only few options.
JF-17 block 3 to replace older planes (F-7s and older Mirages)
J-10C to replace older planes (F-7s and older Mirages)
J-35 to (older planes)
AZM to replace F-16s.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Now I know from the title, many of PDFians will be getting ready for trolling me or this thread, You guys almost typed your cheeky one-liners and Indians already bring their old argument of " Where is the money "? Buts let's discuss this notion for what it is worth. I will propose a couple of scenarios where it might be possible for the Pakistan Air force to get F-35's from the USA, So hear me out and also without trolling discuss the possibility by providing realistic approaches for this endeavor.

Scenario 1) As we know that US seems to be trying to pack its stuff from Afghanistan and leave, as much as I support the idea of bringing US troops home, something is not adding up for me, but in a hypothetical scenario what if (God Forbid) another massive Terror Attack hit America and its connection goes back to Pak-Afghan border regions? The US will definitely stay and then it will again come to if Pakistan will corporate or not (With us or against us) notion can come up again, but this time Pakistan's situation won't be as dire as it was back in 2001, Chinese Influence was minimum at that time along with their economical assistance, Russia was hesitant in building any relationship with Pakistan, Turkey was there but not as influential as they are today, so this time maybe US might use a different approach to Pakistan decision-makers (GHQ), and offer CSF, Financial and Military Aid, releasing all Military hardware which was held from Pakistan within a span of 1-3 years, and if this war sees the intensity and US keep relying on Pakistan to provide bases, Air space and route for US supplies then along the way (by end of this decade) maybe US will offer F-35's (18 units) similar to F-16's block 52's a sqd to PAF.

Scenario 2) America always used leverage on countries to do their bidding, there is no secret it that, they did this with every country except Israel, now in past several years the relationship between US-PAK has gone from bad to worse, and trust is as low as between Trump and Melania, with CPEC becoming Operational and Chinese replacing Americans in Pakistan from Financial Aid to Military hardware, the US think tanks might see this as another important ally going into Chinese camp, they might try to butter Pakistan in future because their Stick policy has not been that fruitful and it pushes Pakistan way to deeper in Chinese Camp. Specifically in Military hardware among many development and success of JF-17 stand out taller than any other procurement by Pakistan from China, and now as JF-17 block 3 ready to roll out with AESA and other modern goodies it is a matter of pride for Pakistan but concern for West especially America, not because JF carries some Alien technology but the Independency Pakistan enjoys with their own fighter, no sanctions can hurt this program, no spare parts issues, no weapon integration and definitely no Kill Switches (only for @SQ8 ) All that experience, going into Project Azm which is the end game for PAF, developing a 5th Generation fighter, now when PAF chief told us that his vision is for PAF is to have 5th generation Air force by 2040, the actual catch here is that the independency which PAF is looking forward to, having 5th Generation fighter is not an issue after 2030, but building it at home through a sanction free supply chain is massive, which means Pakistan is taking away that one thing US always enjoy over weaker and financially starve nations like Pakistan, Leverage. So keeping PAF going from AZM, not because once again that AZM will bring some Alien tech to the table but bar Pakistan from getting fully independent over its Future Generation Fighter program they might bring an offer to the table which top brass at PAF won't be able to refuse, something like 1-2 Sqs of F-35 in a similar way they provide F-16's with US teams station at PAF bases to keep Chinese away from getting a glimpse of the tech.

Scenario 3) Pakistan become financially stable, the economy picks up and exports increase along with Foreign reserves, CPEC attracts more countries to invest, security situation improve amid Afghan Peace, some sort of Peace deal with India is signed and a political/diplomatic approach to Kashmir is taken by both parties, hence the ties between US and Pakistan improve as after the Afghan withdrawal there is a chance that America stops seeing Pakistan through the lens of Afghanistan, but as a separate country with its own national interest, and as ties improve and Pakistani's pockets become healthier they can approach US with a proposal of a couple of Sqs of F-35's as Indians by mid-2030s will have their own plans in motion to transform their Air forces into a full 5th Generation Air force, leaving Pakistan behind will tilt the balance of Power in the region hence push Pakistan to test more Nukes and missile to keep that minimum deterrence against India.

Feel free to add any other scenario you seem fit, and Please avoid the typical arguments such as Pakistan is poor, etc, everyone knows that and the whole idea of this thread is to discuss some hypothetical scenario's not getting into some same old arguments.

Also, feel free to discuss the integration process such as building up infrastructure in PAC kamra to support F-35's, supply lines, weapon integrations, EW suites etc

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @dbc @SQ8 @The Eagle @araz @Windjammer

Usa never give first line of fighters to Pakistan checkout history, except F16 that was only due to Russian were in Afghanistan.

Instead india have solid chance to have F35 in near future by using Chinese stealth aircraft card

Base model F-35 ? What's the use of an aircraft if its not sanctioned timely upgrades. It becomes more of a liability than an asset. With aircraft, its just not the upgrades in avionics and sensors but also the weapons package like SOMs including long range A2A missiles and EW pods. The upgrades as well as newer blocks (versions) of an aircraft makes it a very potent machine with modern times. A fully equipped J-31 with all tech and goodies might be a better solution than a watered down handicapped version of F-35.

Americans didn't show up to release more F-16s when JF-17 was being inducted, or the rumors of J-10 induction surfaced or even after Azm kicked off. So I cant figure out how USA would release F-35s over Azm/J-31. As for F-16s flying till 2030s -if PAF can drag a 3rd gen aircraft Mirage III/V for 65+ years, wait and watch what PAF will do with a 4th gen aircraft. USA's chess play is Afghanistan, not F-16s. PAF has been given JF-17 to counter F-16 embargo threat so USA lost the F-16 leverage the day JF-17 was inducted in PAF.

Did you also keep credit line of purchasing these F-35s in mind ? Chinese and Turks can offer favorable solutions.

PAF have all the chances to induct J31/J35 in next 5 years or so...
The only thing we can get from American is F16s at max

 

[Dalit]

Now I know from the title, many of PDFians will be getting ready for trolling me or this thread, You guys almost typed your cheeky one-liners and Indians already bring their old argument of " Where is the money "? Buts let's discuss this notion for what it is worth. I will propose a couple of scenarios where it might be possible for the Pakistan Air force to get F-35's from the USA, So hear me out and also without trolling discuss the possibility by providing realistic approaches for this endeavor.

Scenario 1) As we know that US seems to be trying to pack its stuff from Afghanistan and leave, as much as I support the idea of bringing US troops home, something is not adding up for me, but in a hypothetical scenario what if (God Forbid) another massive Terror Attack hit America and its connection goes back to Pak-Afghan border regions? The US will definitely stay and then it will again come to if Pakistan will corporate or not (With us or against us) notion can come up again, but this time Pakistan's situation won't be as dire as it was back in 2001, Chinese Influence was minimum at that time along with their economical assistance, Russia was hesitant in building any relationship with Pakistan, Turkey was there but not as influential as they are today, so this time maybe US might use a different approach to Pakistan decision-makers (GHQ), and offer CSF, Financial and Military Aid, releasing all Military hardware which was held from Pakistan within a span of 1-3 years, and if this war sees the intensity and US keep relying on Pakistan to provide bases, Air space and route for US supplies then along the way (by end of this decade) maybe US will offer F-35's (18 units) similar to F-16's block 52's a sqd to PAF.

Scenario 2) America always used leverage on countries to do their bidding, there is no secret it that, they did this with every country except Israel, now in past several years the relationship between US-PAK has gone from bad to worse, and trust is as low as between Trump and Melania, with CPEC becoming Operational and Chinese replacing Americans in Pakistan from Financial Aid to Military hardware, the US think tanks might see this as another important ally going into Chinese camp, they might try to butter Pakistan in future because their Stick policy has not been that fruitful and it pushes Pakistan way to deeper in Chinese Camp. Specifically in Military hardware among many development and success of JF-17 stand out taller than any other procurement by Pakistan from China, and now as JF-17 block 3 ready to roll out with AESA and other modern goodies it is a matter of pride for Pakistan but concern for West especially America, not because JF carries some Alien technology but the Independency Pakistan enjoys with their own fighter, no sanctions can hurt this program, no spare parts issues, no weapon integration and definitely no Kill Switches (only for @SQ8 ) All that experience, going into Project Azm which is the end game for PAF, developing a 5th Generation fighter, now when PAF chief told us that his vision is for PAF is to have 5th generation Air force by 2040, the actual catch here is that the independency which PAF is looking forward to, having 5th Generation fighter is not an issue after 2030, but building it at home through a sanction free supply chain is massive, which means Pakistan is taking away that one thing US always enjoy over weaker and financially starve nations like Pakistan, Leverage. So keeping PAF going from AZM, not because once again that AZM will bring some Alien tech to the table but bar Pakistan from getting fully independent over its Future Generation Fighter program they might bring an offer to the table which top brass at PAF won't be able to refuse, something like 1-2 Sqs of F-35 in a similar way they provide F-16's with US teams station at PAF bases to keep Chinese away from getting a glimpse of the tech.

Scenario 3) Pakistan become financially stable, the economy picks up and exports increase along with Foreign reserves, CPEC attracts more countries to invest, security situation improve amid Afghan Peace, some sort of Peace deal with India is signed and a political/diplomatic approach to Kashmir is taken by both parties, hence the ties between US and Pakistan improve as after the Afghan withdrawal there is a chance that America stops seeing Pakistan through the lens of Afghanistan, but as a separate country with its own national interest, and as ties improve and Pakistani's pockets become healthier they can approach US with a proposal of a couple of Sqs of F-35's as Indians by mid-2030s will have their own plans in motion to transform their Air forces into a full 5th Generation Air force, leaving Pakistan behind will tilt the balance of Power in the region hence push Pakistan to test more Nukes and missile to keep that minimum deterrence against India.

Feel free to add any other scenario you seem fit, and Please avoid the typical arguments such as Pakistan is poor, etc, everyone knows that and the whole idea of this thread is to discuss some hypothetical scenario's not getting into some same old arguments.

Also, feel free to discuss the integration process such as building up infrastructure in PAC kamra to support F-35's, supply lines, weapon integrations, EW suites etc

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD @dbc @SQ8 @The Eagle @araz @Windjammer

Come on brother. Stop entertaining this impossible thought.

 

[Imran Khan]

yes after my death one day i will sitting in heaven playing with my hoors and some new dead will arrive in heaven date 2115 and will inform me that PAF is using f-35 liek mirages now .