Poor Pakistan Producing Third Generation Tanks!

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

There was one main fault with the russian attack---from which they never recovered---and that was the time it gave to Ukraine to prepare for offensive---.

The russian strategy and game plan was totally defective and flawed---.

Result as shown was expected---.

 

[iLION12345_1]

There’s so much wrong in this thread I don’t even know where to start. One sarcastic post about tank production and everyone is suddenly an expert in tank tech and tactics, literally 90% of the stuff posted here is laughable and has been discussed and answered to death in the relevant threads in much better and accurate ways.

 

[Bossman]

where will the dollars to pay for these tanks or their parts come from?

IMF

 

[Telescopic Sight]

everyone is suddenly an expert in tank tech and tactics, literally 90% of the stuff posted here is laughable

Honestly, aren't all of us discussing stuff that we have no hands-on knowledge of ? Isn't everyone here spouting 2nd hand stuff ?

You wrote somewhere here that you are in the 12th std., right ? C'mon....go easy on the others. Glass houses and all...

 

[iLION12345_1]

Honestly, aren't all of us discussing stuff that we have no hands-on knowledge of ? Isn't everyone here spouting 2nd hand stuff ?

You wrote somewhere here that you are in the 12th std., right ? C'mon....go easy on the others. Glass houses and all...

That was a few years back, sure. Didn’t we all come from there at one time or another?
But I never claimed to be an expert then nor do I consider myself one now.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t have hands on experience and sources. I am thankful for my opportunities and of course i understand not everyone has them, but what everyone does have is access to detailed research On the internet and existing threads which they can read before making blanket statements. Even if I remove the hands on access I have to both resources and actual technology (which I admit is through little achievement of my own and more of people I know), I can still find the correct answers to all of these queries on the internet just through some research, that’s what I wish more people would do before posting.

If you go through my posts over the years you’d often see me correct myself on older posts and claims as I learned more about the relevant topics both through research and through hands on experience, so I’m learning the same as everyone in this forum, I simply wish to share accurate information about this stuff through my opportunities. So not everyone is speaking from second hand sources, some do have actual experience, many far more than me, I learned from those people too, and they’ve given good answers on other threads too.

 

[The Accountant]

After TOT, Heavy Industries Taxila (Hit) is now manufacturing VT-4 Third generation Tanks for the Pakistan Army.
View attachment 905692
View attachment 905691

Correct word is assembling ...

What difference does it make when our economy will collpase ? Soviet union broke due to economy ... They also had many tanks ... So rather then celebrating another fake screen development we should focus on making structural reforms ...

 

[RAMPAGE]

they need to upgrade to welding robots.

No, they do not. For now, human labour is cheaper. Spending foreign exchange on importing robots that will replace local labour is to substitute cheap, local services with an expensive imported equivalent. The goal should not be high automation but industrial development and cheap energy. Once the industry develops, receives large export orders and the economy grows, automation will happen naturally - through locally produced robots.

 

[Windjammer]

Correct word is assembling ...

What difference does it make when our economy will collpase ? Soviet union broke due to economy ... They also had many tanks ... So rather then celebrating another fake screen development we should focus on making structural reforms ...

LOL. We might as well shut down HIT, PAC and POF... But the problem is whenever there are issues on the border, all the Internet warriors will fight is with just their keyboards.
As for mere assembly... Well....

Pakistan

• 300 VT-4 tanks will be delivered to the Pakistan army by 2023 along with an option for 160 more in accordance to the 2017 deal. A 110 additional units will be built at Heavy Industries Taxila with indigenous equipment according to a ToT agreement

 

[Azadkashmir]

No, they do not. For now, human labour is cheaper. Spending foreign exchange on importing robots that will replace local labour is to substitute cheap, local services with an expensive imported equivalent. The goal should not be high automation but industrial development and cheap energy. Once the industry develops, receives large export orders and the economy grows, automation will happen naturally - through locally produced robots.

ok i agree.

 

[iLION12345_1]

No, they do not. For now, human labour is cheaper. Spending foreign exchange on importing robots that will replace local labour is to substitute cheap, local services with an expensive imported equivalent. The goal should not be high automation but industrial development and cheap energy. Once the industry develops, receives large export orders and the economy grows, automation will happen naturally - through locally produced robots.

ok i agree.

Several Welding robots are already present at HIT. A good portion of the work is done by them, but the rest has to be done by human hands.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The point is in last 20 years these brand new tanks were not even used in the western front.

We have been using alzarrar and t59s. A year ago the army bought hundreds of upgraded t55s to equip the fc. The excuse was that its a lighter tank and the best stuff should be saved for the eastern sector

Tbh our FC boys have sacraficed so much and this line of thinking from the army is extemely disgraceful. As if lahore and islamabad dha’s are so much more valuable in money and blood than waziristan peshawer or quetta. All of which should be top priority for army leadership.

That is the point you jahil. We are not even giving FC boys a few dozen of our best tanks!

Off topic (we should have another detailed thread on this) - the Frontier Corps and Rangers should be taken away from Army control and have its own officer corps, training centers and academies (similar to the Indian BSF), especially since the Pakistan Army has gone rogue against the country in its quest for power and control.

An elected Federal government should have the ability to deploy the Frontier Corps and Rangers for internal security, including against treasonous Army Generals.

Back to the topic please.

There’s so much wrong in this thread I don’t even know where to start. One sarcastic post about tank production and everyone is suddenly an expert in tank tech and tactics, literally 90% of the stuff posted here is laughable and has been discussed and answered to death in the relevant threads in much better and accurate ways.

Everyone has the right to offer an (civil) opinion on the topic. Everyone also has the right to offer a rational and civil critique/counter argument.

This is a discussion forum open to the public, not a restricted platform for verified members of academia or subject matter experts.

 

[Telescopic Sight]

That was a few years back, sure. Didn’t we all come from there at one time or another?
But I never claimed to be an expert then nor do I consider myself one now.

But that doesn’t mean I don’t have hands on experience and sources. I am thankful for my opportunities and of course i understand not everyone has them, but what everyone does have is access to detailed research On the internet and existing threads which they can read before making blanket statements. Even if I remove the hands on access I have to both resources and actual technology (which I admit is through little achievement of my own and more of people I know), I can still find the correct answers to all of these queries on the internet just through some research, that’s what I wish more people would do before posting.

If you go through my posts over the years you’d often see me correct myself on older posts and claims as I learned more about the relevant topics both through research and through hands on experience, so I’m learning the same as everyone in this forum, I simply wish to share accurate information about this stuff through my opportunities. So not everyone is speaking from second hand sources, some do have actual experience, many far more than me, I learned from those people too, and they’ve given good answers on other threads too.

Very classy and educated reply. And there is no doubt in anyone's mind that your are the most knowledgeable person here in the domain of armoured fighting vehicles.
I am deeply impressed by your maturity.

This maturity is highlighted even more dramatically when you see 55 - 65 year old Whatsapp uncles get fooled by cheap CGI and start threads here on this forum

Thank you !

 

[The Accountant]

LOL. We might as well shut down HIT, PAC and POF... But the problem is whenever there are issues on the border, all the Internet warriors will fight is with just their keyboards.
As for mere assembly... Well....

Pakistan

• 300 VT-4 tanks will be delivered to the Pakistan army by 2023 along with an option for 160 more in accordance to the 2017 deal. A 110 additional units will be built at Heavy Industries Taxila with indigenous equipment according to a ToT agreement

When there will be fight on the border ... Wow ... When if ...

Sorry my friend but people fight daily and are loosing daily just to win bread for themselves and despite doing all the efforts they are loosing it ... What u have done that war of millions loosing daily ?

Dont give this stupid internet warrior remarks rather than answering a valid remarks ... This very low intellectual honesty that a valid concern raised is answered with character attack ... Didnt expect this from u ..

My argument is simple physical war might happen or might not but economic war we r loosing and our establishment is one of the reason we r loosing economic war. By purchasing luxury items from outside Pakistan. By supporting corrupts in power ... By wasting our money on political engineering ... They r responsible for loosing economic war ..

 

[The Accountant]

@Windjammer by the way for ease of your comparison ... Take example of changan, 100% owned subsidiary of norinco (the company originally made this vt4 tank).

They started with assembling military truck for chinese military, got assembly contract of suzuki in china and then they launched own brand of passenger vehicle changan. They are now chinese biggest auto manufacturer of china and are selling level 3 auto cars (tesla is level 4).

This is called development and progress ... So stop cheerleading every step of our inefficient and egoistic military and start taking criticism and use it as a self correction tool rather than kill the person highlighting the issue ...

 

[airmarshal]

We dont have steel mills. So this means we import all the materials.

Steel industry produces different types of steel sheets and ingots. So we dont have steel industry, we dont produce the raw material needed for a big scale production.