Polytheism vs. Monotheism + Omnipotence

[Logic note]

Wait are Brahman and Brahma two different words or a typo?

They are two Different Words
Brahman - Universal Consiousness - The Ultimate Truth - it has no shape , size or Colour

Brahma - is One of the Perception of humans about that truth and his quality as creator ( remember again God is different from Brahman )

 

[Awesome]

So Brahman is synonymous with Om?

 

[niaz]

Take Greek Gods for example.

Judaism as it exists today borrows a lot from there (obviously since they lived with the Greeks, and Egyptians all their lives).

The story goes there was one Father God and 12 of his children, the Titans. Super human beings. Zeus was the elder Titan. Btw, Zeus was also born of virgin birth on Dec. 25, died and resurrected to heaven and will return one day. Heck he even looks like Jesus . They say at the council of Nicae, when Rome turned Christian from the Greek religion, Jesus was reshaped borrowing heavily from Zeus.

Anyway going on, he defeated the Father God who had banished them to Earth.

Each Titan became a God to the human beings due to their super powers and at times created a lot of havoc on Earth and exhibited a lot of human like qualities.

Judaism also has a concept of the 12 tribes of Israel, who left Egypt with Moses in an exodus.

I regret but quite a few things mentioned herein are not correct.

Firstly, the Greek mythology. I happen to take course in Greek Mythology as a hobby. The story goes like this:

Originally there were Gaia ( Earth) with Uranus ( Heaven) who was supreme ruler of the universe. Their children were Titans. Titans revolted against their father and Cronos, one of the Titans became the supreme ruler. Gaia and Uranus foretold that Cronus will be dethroned by his own child. Hearing this prophecy, Cronos began swallowing up his children. Rhea the wife of Zeus, gave Cronos a stone wrapped in clothes when Zeus was born and hid Zeus in caves in Crete. Zeus grew up up eating honey and ambrosia. When he grew to maturity, he waged war against the Titans and forced Cronos to disgorge all of the children previously swallowed.

With the help of his brothers and sisters ( Gods) Zeus defeated the Titans, Cronosd was killed and his parts scattered all over. His private parts were thrown into the sea and Venus was born of the sea foam reacting with Cronos penus. Zeus became the ruler of universe and supreme god.
Zeus was therefore not born of the virgin birth.

IMO Jewish faith, the original faith of the prohpet Abraham ( AS) was a monotheistic faith. It has been influenced by the Egyptians and pagan Byblonian creeds but very little from the Greeks and Romans. Early Greek and Roman writers mention people worshipping a god called Yahwah.

Christian faith on the other hand shows strong influence of the Greco-Roman beliefs. For example, it was quite common for the gods to fall in love with beautiful maidens and we have host of Greek heroes such as Hercules who were born of a mortal women and Zeus. Thus the prophet Jesus ( AS) considered to be son of god. The concept of trinity, basically god with three faces has pagan roots as well.

Only Jews and Muslims are wholly monotheistic. Zorastarianism has the concept of duality ( Ahramozda and Ahriman) even though both are different aspects of the same entity.

Being a muslim, it is almost impossible for me to be totally unbiased. I have however, attended a few discourses about the concept of God during my student days at the University of London. One Agnostic argued that mankind have gradually changed the concept of god. Initially anything that man had no power on or he could not understand was considered a deity. Most dieties having similar desires and needs as the mortal beings. As the capacity of abstract thought evolved, number of gods became less and less. Eventually a time came when there was no need of any god. Also that most rational of all religions was Budhism, they have done away with God altogether and this was done sometime 500 BC.

 

[Logic note]

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
So Brahman is synonymous with Om?

Om is used to serve as a means to the meditation on Brahman.
“One should concentrate on the Self, uttering Om.”2 “One should meditate upon the Supreme Being only through the Syllable Om.”3 “Meditate upon the Self with the help of the Syllable Om.”4 And so on. Although the words “Brahman,” “Atman,” etc. are names of Brahman, yet on the authority of the scriptures we know that Om is Its most intimate appellation. Therefore it is the best means for the realization of Brahman.

It is so in two ways–as a symbol and as a Name. As a symbol: Just as the image of any other god is regarded as identical with that god [for purposes of worship]

 

[Logic note]

Originally Posted by Niaz
Eventually a time came when there was no need of any god. Also that most rational of all religions was Budhism, they have done away with God altogether and this was done sometime 500 BC.

Yes Buddhism is very close to One of the Athiestic sect of Hindusim where there was no need of god ( Charvakas ). However Buddha never claimed to be athiestic and the concept of Sunyata in buddhism very much like is the Brahman concept of Advaita .

 

[Awesome]

I regret but quite a few things mentioned herein are not correct.

Firstly, the Greek mythology. I happen to take course in Greek Mythology as a hobby. The story goes like this:

Originally there were Gaia ( Earth) with Uranus ( Heaven) who was supreme ruler of the universe. Their children were Titans. Titans revolted against their father and Cronos, one of the Titans became the supreme ruler. Gaia and Uranus foretold that Cronus will be dethroned by his own child. Hearing this prophecy, Cronos began swallowing up his children. Rhea the wife of Zeus, gave Cronos a stone wrapped in clothes when Zeus was born and hid Zeus in caves in Crete. Zeus grew up up eating honey and ambrosia. When he grew to maturity, he waged war against the Titans and forced Cronos to disgorge all of the children previously swallowed.

With the help of his brothers and sisters ( Gods) Zeus defeated the Titans, Cronosd was killed and his parts scattered all over. His private parts were thrown into the sea and Venus was born of the sea foam reacting with Cronos penus. Zeus became the ruler of universe and supreme god.
Zeus was therefore not born of the virgin birth.

Yes your story is factually correct. I'm just speaking from what I remember... Perhaps there was someother Greek god with a virgin birth?

Christian faith on the other hand shows strong influence of the Greco-Roman beliefs. For example, it was quite common for the gods to fall in love with beautiful maidens and we have host of Greek heroes such as Hercules who were born of a mortal women and Zeus. Thus the prophet Jesus ( AS) considered to be son of god. The concept of trinity, basically god with three faces has pagan roots as well.

Interesting perspective but are there any parallels between the Holy Ghost and Alcmena?

The Quran explains the Holy Ghost as the Angel Gabriel, as he was assigned the duty to bring the message of God to every Prophet.

 

[MIG_ACE]

Islam doesn't really address Omnipotence, but it simplifies the matter. It simply says it is IMPOSSIBLE for the human kind to figure out what God is.

Hmmm interesting. I have actually heard that argument from several people(none of whom were muslim) when I questioned the existence of God in front of them.

IMHO its a clever ploy to sidestep the issue and conveniently excuse yourself from having to give a straight answer when God's existence is questioned.

 

[Logic note]

Although strongly theistic, most of the Hindu religions, differs from the theologies of the West and Middle East by emphasising the monistic, emanationist, and pantheistic nature of the Godhead, and Its inseperability from created existence. This is the exact opposite to the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic position, in which God creates the entire universe out of nothing, and always remains dualistically separate from it (pantheism has always been regarded as a particularily serious form of herasy).

Typical of the spirit of Hindu emanationism is the following passage, from the commentary on a Shakta Tantric text, which cites rather unsystemmatically from a wide range of earlier writings regarding the relation between the Godhead and the world.

"...(Brahman, the Godhead, said) `May I be many and born as many', and thus He made Himself into the world as it exists within Himself. So it has been (also) said `By His mere wish He throws out and withdraws the universe in its enturety.' Also it is elsewhere said - `The Great Lord having drawn on Himself the picture of the world by the brush of His own Will is pleased when looking thereon.' S'ruti also says `As the spider throws out and takes back its thread, so Ishvara (God) projects and withdraws the universe.' Thus the one great Lord becomes the material cause from which the world is made, as says the Text, `May I be many.'..."

[Kama-Kala-Vilasa, Translated by Sir John Woodroffe, Ganesh ∓ Co. Madras, 1971, p.142]

Note that God (Ishwara) is here described as "the material cause" of the universe. In the other words, the matter from which the cosmos is formed is the Godhood-nature itself. This is in complete contrast to the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic monotheistic type of religion, where God is indeed, obviously, the spiritual cause, but never ever (apart from the claims of a few brave heretical mystics) the material cause.

 

[Awesome]

Hmmm interesting. I have actually heard that argument from several people(none of whom were muslim) when I questioned the existence of God in front of them.

IMHO its a clever ploy to sidestep the issue and conveniently excuse yourself from having to give a straight answer when God's existence is questioned.

It's not an excuse, its simple logic.

He is infinite. You can't reach infinity, so you can't reach infinite understanding.

 

[MIG_ACE]

It's not an excuse, its simple logic.

He is infinite...

How do you know that?? Its only an assumption if there's no proof.A hypothesis that has to be validated before it can be accepted.

 

[Logic note]

Originally Posted by MIG_ACE View Post
How do you know that?? Its only an assumption if there's no proof.A hypothesis that has to be validated before it can be accepted.

HMm There is a concept given by Adiguru Shnakacharya in Advaita Philosophy for Brahman ( Supreme Being ) which is called " NETI NETI" which means neither this nor that . He said you supreme being is neither this nor that . its not possible to know him with our limited perceptive mind . he can only be realised with spritiuality and meditation and thats the ultimate goal of human life , to realise him as the only truth ( not yourself ) hence its called as Philosophy of Non duality ( Advaita)

 

[Ironduke]

The interesting thing is how many themes in monotheistic religions are borrowed from Polytheistic religions. Again starting with the example of Christianity, The 'God Sun', was born on Dec. 25th, was of a Virgin birth and died and resurrected and was raised to the heavens and would return one day.

Sounds familiar? Jewish Messiah, Jesus, Imam Mahdi, and I believe one Hindu person too.

All monotheistic religions show stark similarities to polytheistic religions. For example, Zoroastrian influences are evident in the dualism of both Islam and Christianity. Judaism, the first Abrahamic religion, lacks this, or at the most, has extremely underdeveloped notions of heaven and hell.

 

[Awesome]

How do you know that?? Its only an assumption if there's no proof.A hypothesis that has to be validated before it can be accepted.

That is what faith is.

 

[Awesome]

All monotheistic religions show stark similarities to polytheistic religions. For example, Zoroastrian influences are evident in the dualism of both Islam and Christianity. Judaism, the first Abrahamic religion, lacks this, or at the most, has extremely underdeveloped notions of heaven and hell.

Islam actually accepts all religions that came before it.

Just because it has expressly accepted Judaism and Christianity as true religions does not mean that they are the only one's accepted by Islam. The belief goes onto state that there may have been 124,000 Prophets altogether throughout time and throughout different places as and when the need arose.

I'd go as far as to say that Hinduism too depicts some similarities with Islam if you are ready to look at it through the perspective that it's a deviated form of monotheism. As human beings we are always raising our heroes up so high beyond which they should be. You can see the trend even today with our politicians, rock stars and sports stars. The same happened with Jesus, a rockstar of those times. He was raised to divinity when he was just an extraordinary Jewish Rabbi.

Heck the same happened for a brief moment when the Prophet Mohammad died. The same story was about to be repeated, that "He's not dead, he's just been raised into heaven", but Abu Bakr, the first Caliph knocked some sense into the people and didn't allow any divine attribute be attached to it.

Muslims too have some very questionable practices. The much trumped Sufi's although very moderate, happy go people and with a profound perspective on life, sometimes start nearly worshiping one saint or the other.

But the concept of Jihad (as you know the term is more akin to struggling with your innerself than 'holy war') has kept Islam on course of self-correction.

 

[aryan2007]

Excellent post sir..

I'd go as far as to say that Hinduism too depicts some similarities with Islam if you are ready to look at it through the perspective that it's a deviated form of monotheism.

I personally think that the Hinduism practised by the masses is not classical/orthodox Hinduism for eg. Sanskrit is the only language in the world which has the most atheistic writings of any language.

Hinduism is a religion of argumentation, debate and inferences. It is the only religion broad enough to accomodate even if you believe in 1 od, several deities who are manifestations of particular powers/aspects of that God, or no God at all..

As human beings we are always raising our heroes up so high beyond which they should be. You can see the trend even today with our politicians, rock stars and sports stars. The same happened with Jesus, a rockstar of those times. He was raised to divinity when he was just an extraordinary Jewish Rabbi.

See certain things like these I believe to be Charisma, a special something, magnetism etc.. but if the Prophet or Jesus were ordinary men with extraordinary charisma their religions would have collapsed and not flourished for as long or followed by as many...

Heck the same happened for a brief moment when the Prophet Mohammad died. The same story was about to be repeated, that "He's not dead, he's just been raised into heaven", but Abu Bakr, the first Caliph knocked some sense into the people and didn't allow any divine attribute be attached to it.

These incidents are quite common to all religions, here you can either be very rational or blinded by faith.. here one should let the religious leaders do as the first Caliph did.. be rational..

Muslims too have some very questionable practices. The much trumped Sufi's although very moderate, happy go people and with a profound perspective on life, sometimes start nearly worshiping one saint or the other.

Here Sufism shows much similarity with other Dharmic/Karmic religions..
These religions are classically based on Guru-Shishya Samprayday..

But the concept of Jihad (as you know the term is more akin to struggling with your innerself than 'holy war') has kept Islam on course of self-correction.

Jihad is a wonderful concept so is Al-Isra, and both have deep symbolic meanings similar in concept to the "Hindus", "Dharam-Yudh" as espoused in the Gita, and Samadhi concept as espoused by Yogis