Poll for the Pakistani members

[Imran Khan]

no never they are winners in afghanistan now .soon US will pack its bags from afghanistan and we have to live with them forever . its sound stupid US cant defeat them in 10 years how can we?

 

[Ammyy]

no never they are winners in afghanistan now .soon US will pack its bags from afghanistan and we have to live with them forever . its sound stupid US cant defeat them in 10 years how can we?

If you want to get rid of TTP so you should do this cause both are interconnected .

Otherwise Good or Bad Taliban never gonna finish

 

[Imran Khan]

If you want to get rid of TTP so you should do this cause both are interconnected .

Otherwise Good or Bad Taliban never gonna finish

its not the time for this job . really we will be harmed more only if we do it . every year USA spend billions of dollars still cant overcome on them . what poor pakistan can do with them? it will be new pain after US leave Afghanistan taliban will never wait 3 months and get back kabul .then we have much more big problem.

 

[Ammyy]

its not the time for this job . really we will be harmed more only if we do it . every year USA spend billions of dollars still cant overcome on them . what poor pakistan can do with them? it will be new pain after US leave Afghanistan taliban will never wait 3 months and get back kabul .then we have much more big problem.

I dnt think so

If Pakistan try in real not for showoff so you can destroy them

I dnt think US gonna leave Afghanistan for next5-6 years os its last chance for Pakistan to finish its own problems

 

[Imran Khan]

I dnt think so

If Pakistan try in real not for showoff so you can destroy them

I dnt think US gonna leave Afghanistan for next5-6 years os its last chance for Pakistan to finish its own problems

yaar its political problem we cant damn take them out with forces its ideology in hearts of millions . i never sport radicals but for pakistan i think we should care this problem with education health care transport system and much more for fata .believe me you kill 10 there will grow back 20 .its really a big mess .the money which us nato spend on war if they spend for peace i think taliban will be old story long before.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

there's always that shade of gray, not everything is cast steel in white and black colours

as long as we elect genuine, honest leaders then no need to take extreme knee-jerk measures or reactions. A true leader is assertive and stands up for his/her country interest first. S/He and everyone below serves the people, ideally, to best of their ability

 

[Mutee]

Option 3 sir needed badly and urgently

 

[mikkix]

I dont agree with all three ideas that are mention at the start of the thread.
We dont need to cut ties with US because
- we should not allow americans to go all in all with India
- We need their weopons and money.
- We should keep them interested in Pakistan.

We should not attack Talibans.
- its not our war so get out of it.
- If talibans win the war then it will be the disaster for us.
- if we attacked them then all jihad will turned against us.

Pasha should not be resigned.
- he is doing fair job looking at the current scenario but not not good enough.
- That resignation will start voices that May be the ISI involves in it that is why he resigns.
- Resignation allows domoralization of PAkistan and Military.

BUT he should not allowed to given the next extension.
- to reduce the tension and built fair relations with India and US.
- to satisfy the people of pakistan that nobody will above the state.
- it is not good for ISI to made extension to retired general because it creates demotivation amongst the juniors.

 

[All-Green]

I was serious. both of you appear to be incapable to learn from history. military operations is never an option against your own people...

Define our own people.
Who are our own people?
That is what you need to learn fast.

You are only thinking in terms of US war in Afghanistan, I am thinking way ahead of that.
It does not matter whether USA stays or leaves, if left unchecked the states within a state will only grow stronger.
The militancy itself is a huge problem, good militant or bad militant can only by confirmed once you ask them to lay down arms or sacrifice themselves for the sake of the state and not their personal agenda...however by that time it is usually too late.

Right now the only measure of what constitutes as pro Pakistani groups is their reluctance to take on Pakistan Army openly...otherwise be it ideological support or logistical support or even training etc. all the groups whether anti or pro Pakistan have had commonality and cooperation.
Recent murder of Col Imam and resulting inaction by all factions against Hakimullah should open your eyes to this fact!
So in reality, they are all different faces of a connected network.

Who has interest in the future of a stable, prosperous and moderate Pakistan?
Certainly not the types we are suggesting to disarm and take on.
Anyone who raises an illegal army in our country is not our own people.
Anyone who is implementing his own laws and running a parallel government over the poor Pakistani people under his hold, is indeed a rebel and needs to be taken out by the military if not possible to do so by the law enforcement agencies!

You can ask the people of Swat what they think of their own people who terrorized, tortured and butchered all the people who wanted to lead their lives free of the so called "shariat" of the terrorists.
You think we acted against our own people in Swat?
Then god help you.

If you think we did the right think in Swat, then do you know where the militants came from and overwhelmed Swat?
Which religious party or militant faction including all the so called good factions did you see publicly condemning the terrorism being perpetrated in Swat in the name of Islam?

By all accounts Sufi Muhammad was asked to condemn Fazlullah in the grand gathering in Swat, he was supposed to address the people and let them know that rebelling against their own country and running a parallel system is not right. He was supposed to condemn the violence and brutality undertaken by the TTP in Swat…however when he saw a throng of people gathered to hear him speak, the Mullah was tempted by the opportunity and instead bombarded the government in his speech.
No mention of the murder spree of the scum of the earth called Maulvi Fazlullah…no mention of the bizarre and brutal laws of the TTP. Clearly that was not something that mattered to Sufi Muhammad.
But what else is new?
This rascal Sufi Muhammad got thousands of Pakistanis killed in Afghanistan when he took a lashkar to aid the Taliban…only he and a few hundred of his henchmen managed to return.
These rascals shall save their hide every time and throw others into the pits of hell in order to serve their personal agenda.
Such is the character of “our people”.
These are not our people by a long shot, they shall never submit to a stable Pakistan.
Their interests are in no way convergent with what suits Pakistan in the long run.

So, now if our government asks a group to lay down arms and they do not...they are not our people are they?
To be our people they need to listen to us.
A person who raises arms against his country and actively participates in destroying it, forfeits the right of citizenship.

Let us test the pro Pakistan groups if there are any, let us ask them to disarm.
If they are indeed our people, they should do it...otherwise we should realize that they are no more in our control.

What is the proper response to an armed rebel who is unwilling to lay down arms and whose agenda is destruction of a state and its citizens by spreading militancy and using terror tactics.

The core of these militants is maximum 20,000 Strong, break their back and you shall diminish their influence permanently over our society in the long run.
That is what we should aim for in order to bring stability within our ranks.

Like i said, we need to ensure judiciary and law enforcement agencies are allowed to function here and play the role which only they can play.
Build cases on the traitors and terrorists and their support structure and prosecute them.
Slowly and surely we can eliminate this Fitna.

The solution which i proposed is not military centric, we shall use military only where the judiciary and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to operate.
Once the area is clear of a parallel state and relatively stable, we need to prosecute the perpetrators and bring them to justice.

Our war should be about bringing terrorists/supporters to justice in order to secure the future of Pakistan from the tafkiris whose goal is clearly to destroy Pakistan and rule over the chunks of land that they can hold militarily.
I am sure if there are any good factions who are our people, they would not object to these goals.

 

[waraich66]

Define our own people.
Who are our own people?
That is what you need to learn fast.

You are only thinking in terms of US war in Afghanistan, I am thinking way ahead of that.
It does not matter whether USA stays or leaves, if left unchecked the states within a state will only grow stronger.
The militancy itself is a huge problem, good militant or bad militant can only by confirmed once you ask them to lay down arms or sacrifice themselves for the sake of the state and not their personal agenda...however by that time it is usually too late.

Right now the only measure of what constitutes as pro Pakistani groups is their reluctance to take on Pakistan Army openly...otherwise be it ideological support or logistical support or even training etc. all the groups whether anti or pro Pakistan have had commonality and cooperation.
Recent murder of Col Imam and resulting inaction by all factions against Hakimullah should open your eyes to this fact!
So in reality, they are all different faces of a connected network.

Who has interest in the future of a stable, prosperous and moderate Pakistan?
Certainly not the types we are suggesting to disarm and take on.
Anyone who raises an illegal army in our country is not our own people.
Anyone who is implementing his own laws and running a parallel government over the poor Pakistani people under his hold, is indeed a rebel and needs to be taken out by the military if not possible to do so by the law enforcement agencies!

You can ask the people of Swat what they think of their own people who terrorized, tortured and butchered all the people who wanted to lead their lives free of the so called "shariat" of the terrorists.
You think we acted against our own people in Swat?
Then god help you.

If you think we did the right think in Swat, then do you know where the militants came from and overwhelmed Swat?
Which religious party or militant faction including all the so called good factions did you see publicly condemning the terrorism being perpetrated in Swat in the name of Islam?

By all accounts Sufi Muhammad was asked to condemn Fazlullah in the grand gathering in Swat, he was supposed to address the people and let them know that rebelling against their own country and running a parallel system is not right. He was supposed to condemn the violence and brutality undertaken by the TTP in Swat…however when he saw a throng of people gathered to hear him speak, the Mullah was tempted by the opportunity and instead bombarded the government in his speech.
No mention of the murder spree of the scum of the earth called Maulvi Fazlullah…no mention of the bizarre and brutal laws of the TTP. Clearly that was not something that mattered to Sufi Muhammad.
But what else is new?
This rascal Sufi Muhammad got thousands of Pakistanis killed in Afghanistan when he took a lashkar to aid the Taliban…only he and a few hundred of his henchmen managed to return.
These rascals shall save their hide every time and throw others into the pits of hell in order to serve their personal agenda.
Such is the character of “our people”.
These are not our people by a long shot, they shall never submit to a stable Pakistan.
Their interests are in no way convergent with what suits Pakistan in the long run.

So, now if our government asks a group to lay down arms and they do not...they are not our people are they?
To be our people they need to listen to us.
A person who raises arms against his country and actively participates in destroying it, forfeits the right of citizenship.

Let us test the pro Pakistan groups if there are any, let us ask them to disarm.
If they are indeed our people, they should do it...otherwise we should realize that they are no more in our control.

What is the proper response to an armed rebel who is unwilling to lay down arms and whose agenda is destruction of a state and its citizens by spreading militancy and using terror tactics.

The core of these militants is maximum 20,000 Strong, break their back and you shall diminish their influence permanently over our society in the long run.
That is what we should aim for in order to bring stability within our ranks.

Like i said, we need to ensure judiciary and law enforcement agencies are allowed to function here and play the role which only they can play.
Build cases on the traitors and terrorists and their support structure and prosecute them.
Slowly and surely we can eliminate this Fitna.

The solution which i proposed is not military centric, we shall use military only where the judiciary and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to operate.
Once the area is clear of a parallel state and relatively stable, we need to prosecute the perpetrators and bring them to justice.

Our war should be about bringing terrorists/supporters to justice in order to secure the future of Pakistan from the tafkiris whose goal is clearly to destroy Pakistan and rule over the chunks of land that they can hold militarily.
I am sure if there are any good factions who are our people, they would not object to these goals.

Now OBL is dead but still his follower are roaming both sides of Afghanistan and Pakistan Boarders , better operations to eliminate them should continue but with the support of local tribes and in case Pakistan need help China is best option . We should not trust US ,CIA and their contractors which may be double agents also working for Israel and India to destabilize Pakistan.

 

[All-Green]

Now OBL is dead but still his follower are roaming both sides of Afghanistan and Pakistan Boarders , better operations to eliminate them should continue but with the support of local tribes and in case Pakistan need help China is best option . We should not trust US ,CIA and their contractors which may be double agents also working for Israel and India to destabilize Pakistan.

Pakistan can seek help from any country as long as we take action that is necessary and do not compromise on the objective, which should be to bring peace and prosperity to Pakistan and rid ourselves of militancy perpetrated by a few thousand "guns for hire" extremists.

We should try our best to ensure that we align our regional aspirations in a manner to help facilitate better terms with most if not all of our neighbors. You cannot keep everyone happy but at least our policy should be based on ground realities and common sense.
China is a close friend but due to our instability, China itself has lost a lot of time here. China also needs to be given assurance that we are going to sort things out in order to pave way for the mutually beneficial projects like Gwadar etc. to function.

Regarding our zero tolerance posture, we should also seek answers about BLA and its support structure, after all BLA has contributed a lot in inhibiting the economic growth and development of the region.
We cannot turn a blind eye to them.

 

[waraich66]

Pakistan can seek help from any country as long as we take action that is necessary and do not compromise on the objective, which should be to bring peace and prosperity to Pakistan and rid ourselves of militancy perpetrated by a few thousand "guns for hire" extremists.

We should try our best to ensure that we align our regional aspirations in a manner to help facilitate better terms with most if not all of our neighbors. You cannot keep everyone happy but at least our policy should be based on ground realities and common sense.
China is a close friend but due to our instability, China itself has lost a lot of time here. China also needs to be given assurance that we are going to sort things out in order to pave way for the mutually beneficial projects like Gwadar etc. to function.

Regarding our zero tolerance posture, we should also seek answers about BLA and its support structure, after all BLA has contributed a lot in inhibiting the economic growth and development of the region.
We cannot turn a blind eye to them.

You ignored my comment on CIA double agent contractors ????? I think in middle and lower chain of command of PA were very much angry on US Navy Seal Operations inside Pakistan , we also try to improve the level of morale of our nation and army if we really want get success in our war against terrorism .

 

[SekrutYakhni]

No, no, no all corrupt--You know who should be killed? Not OBL nor Mehsud--Execute the corrupt lot of military and politicians--If you do that, it will create an example. Why kill small terrorists when much bigger corrupt are sitting in GHQ?

 

[lionheartsalahudin]

1. Should Pakistan cut ties with the US?
2. Should Pakistan attack the Afghan Taliban?
3. Should Lt-Gen Pasha step down as the ISI chief?

1-should not cut ties with US just draw down of the so called strategic ties,lets have ties with them as we have with say kenya.

2-no not at all they are our assets ,and a trump card when ever the us leaves,even if usa leaves behind some sort of presence after withdrawing,will keep india and northern alliance at bay in afghanistan afterwards and to some extent a headache for usa.

3.not at all isi is doing a pretty good job,if any one is to be fired that has to be from regular forces they are a disappointment a huge realization after the adventure of abotabad incursion not intelligence community.

 

[waraich66]

No, no, no all corrupt--You know who should be killed? Not OBL nor Mehsud--Execute the corrupt lot of military and politicians--If you do that, it will create an example. Why kill small terrorists when much bigger corrupt are sitting in GHQ?

Right ,I know morale of majority of Pakistanis are very low because of OBL operation , we need to learn lesson and improve our technology and defence .

Real strength of any nation is in their technology not in armed forces.

We should be thankfull to Dr AQK and his team for development of nukes and missile technology but still we are 50 years behind US militery technology .