Political suicide or turning point for Pakistan?

[batmannow]

with latest moov both by imran khan (civil dissobedeance) & quadri (48 hour ultimatum) looks like both of them over estimated there powers and grossly underestimated "noora leuge"

looks like "noora leuge" will turn owt victorious once again

No noora league , won't be victorious any more!

 

[IceCold]

Sad isn't it? we will remain a country where poor will never get justice.

Sir poor are the reason why this country is where it is today. Peons, Drivers, rari walas, sabzi walas these people are the vote bank of Nawaz. I remembered asking the women who was a maid at our house who are you going to vote? She said Sher nu, i asked why, she replied unno sarkaran bananaia hain. Now if you look at that sarak, you will get ashamed of what people refer to as sarak. It was more of cemented pitch.

I remember a christain community, they hired a guy from them, paid him 1000 and ask him that bring out as many people as you can and we will pay 1000 to each. Around 1500 to 2000 people of that area (Christain) voted for PPP back when Zardari came in.
If you ask me i have no sympathy with these so called poors. The only poor are the white collar people who have literally disappeared.

No noora league , won't be victorious any more!

Bhai jaan koi achi khabar ha to da dain. Any updates?

 

[Fracker]

I don't know about that. I never trusted PTI's mantra of justice, so I never had any hopes of justice to begin with.

Still, from what I can see, if Pakistan develops, justice will come in time.

Actually it's other way around. Any system democratic, Comunist, Khlifah anything can work, if they able to fix Justice.

But again, Where IK is doing justice while not obeying the Law? How Justice will prevail if the people like Musharaf, IK, NS, Zardari, Altaf will keep breaking the Law? If system itself gets disintegrate how exactly justice will prevail?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

A BRILLIANT MOVE BY Imran Khan, CAN BRING NAWAZ SHARIF ON HIS KNEES


Imran Khan in his speech on 17th August 2014 called for nationwide civil disobedience in Pakistan and urged his supporters to stop paying taxes and utility bills in order to bring the Government of Nawaz Sharif onto its knees. As soon as Imran Khan announced the civil disobedience movement, analysts and journalists around the country went crazy and termed it as the biggest blunder of Imran's political career.

However, almost all of these intellectuals have failed to see the case that Imran Khan has built for his mass movement. In order to explain the rationale for the movement, one needs to first understand the concept of Odious Debt.

Odious Debt:

In international law, Odious Debt or illegitimate debt is defined as:
National debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation. According to International Law, such a debt is not enforceable upon the state and are considered as personal debts of the regime/government that incurred these debts. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.
The concept of Odious Debt was formalized by Alexander Nahum Sack, a Russian Legal Theorist. The basis of Sack's legal formalization were precedents such as the repudiation of Mexican debts incurred by Emperor Maximillian's regime and the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish Colonial regime.

According to Sack:
When a despotic/dictatorial regime contracts a debt, not for the needs or in the interests of the state, but rather to strengthen itself, to suppress a popular insurrection, etc, this debt is odious for the people of the entire state. This debt does not bind the nation; it is a debt of the regime, a personal debt contracted by the ruler, and consequently it falls with the demise of the regime. The reason why these odious debts cannot attach to the territory of the state is that they do not fulfil one of the conditions determining the lawfulness of State debts, namely that State debts must be incurred, and the proceeds used, for the needs and in the interests of the State. Odious debts, contracted and utilised for purposes which, to the lenders' knowledge, are contrary to the needs and the interests of the nation, are not binding on the nation – when it succeeds in overthrowing the government that contracted them – unless the debt is within the limits of real advantages that these debts might have afforded. The lenders have committed a hostile act against the people, they cannot expect a nation which has freed itself of a despotic regime to assume these odious debts, which are the personal debts of the ruler.
Ecuador Debt WriteOff in 2008:

In 2008 Rafael Correa, President of the Republic of Ecuador, declared that much of Ecuador's $3.9 billion in foreign debt was illegitimate odious debt that was contracted by corrupt and despotic prior regimes. Ecuador managed to successfully reduce the price of foreign debt letters significantly before it paid off the remaining debt.

Imran Khan's Masterclass Against Nawaz Sharif That The Entire Nation Failed To Understand:

As soon as Imran Khan announced his Civil Disobedience movement the entire opposition and twitterati erupted into a tirade of jokes asking questions such as, how would PTI supporters not pay GST on milk, bread and other groceries. Or that if they wont pay the utility bills the utility services would be disconnected and so on.However, none of these so-called intellectuals were able to understand that what this Civil Disobedience movement is aiming to do is declare Nawaz regime a dictatorial regime and hence render all foreign debts that the regime would contract as unenforceable. As, I have already explained that a debt becomes illegitimate if a) the regime that contracts it is despotic and/or dictatorial and b) it was not spent on the betterment of the nation.

The entire long march is based on the premise that Nawaz Sharif and his party rigged the 2013 General elections and hence the regime is dictatorial and illegitimate. Before announcing the Civil Disobedience movement Imran Khan went into elaborate details of how the Sharif has previously used foreign debt to fill his coffers. What Imran was trying to do here was to establish a case that the foreign debts which this regime would incur would not be spent on the nation but would rather be laundered out of the country to power the business of the Sharif dynasty.

In simpler words Imran has told the entire world and specially the foreign lenders aka (IMF, World Bank and Asian Development Bank) that any loans incurred by the Sharif regime would not be enforceable on the future governments of Pakistan. To make it abundantly clear to our intellectual elite, Imran is telling the foreign lenders that if he ever came to power, he wont pay back the loans that the Sharif regime would borrow. This means that the foreign lenders has only one option left before them and that is to decline all future loans to the Sharif regime. Since, the Sharif regime relies heavily on foreign lending to finance its budget, the move would cripple the government and will bring it down to its knees without any bloodletting on the streets.

I once read a quotation that Brilliance hits a target that no one can hit, Genius hits a target that no one can see.

Imran's masterstroke against Sharif is such an act of genius that the entire nation is unable to see the target that it has hit. All that PTI and its horde of social media jihadi's now need to do is explain this to the entire nation that:

Since, we consider the Sharif regime as illegitimate, all foreign debts that it would incur would be illegitimate odious debt and hence would not be paid by the future Pakistani governments.


RESULTS

IMF team cancels visit to Pakistan

Mehtab HaiderMonday, August 18, 2014

ISLAMABAD: In the wake of the ongoing marches in the federal capital led by PTI and PAT, the IMF has cancelled its visit of Pakistan to conclude the ongoing review talks under the $6.67 billion Extended Fund Facility (EFF), it is learnt.

 

[batmannow]

Sir poor are the reason why this country is where it is today. Peons, Drivers, rari walas, sabzi walas these people are the vote bank of Nawaz. I remembered asking the women who was a maid at our house who are you going to vote? She said Sher nu, i asked why, she replied unno sarkaran bananaia hain. Now if you look at that sarak, you will get ashamed of what people refer to as sarak. It was more of cemented pitch.

I remember a christain community, they hired a guy from them, paid him 1000 and ask him that bring out as many people as you can and we will pay 1000 to each. Around 1500 to 2000 people of that area (Christain) voted for PPP back when Zardari came in.
If you ask me i have no sympathy with these so called poors. The only poor are the white collar people who have literally disappeared.



Bhai jaan koi achi khabar ha to da dain. Any updates?

AchI batien karne sey, di ko tasli tu mil, jaa ti hai, laykin killers rulers won't give up?
So it's time to fight, & reach near to Noora maharaja , in Islamabad?
Action night, tonight?

 

[GURU DUTT]

No noora league , won't be victorious any more!

ha ha ha ha ha

iptdda E ishq me rota hai kya aage aage dekhiye hota hai kya

 

[Al Bhatti]

Actually it's other way around. Any system democratic, Comunist, Khlifah anything can work, if they able to fix Justice.

This is what I also said many times earlier that type of government does not make any difference, but how the government looks after the nation and the common man.

 

[Crypto]

A BRILLIANT MOVE BY Imran Khan, CAN BRING NAWAZ SHARIF ON HIS KNEES


Imran Khan in his speech on 17th August 2014 called for nationwide civil disobedience in Pakistan and urged his supporters to stop paying taxes and utility bills in order to bring the Government of Nawaz Sharif onto its knees. As soon as Imran Khan announced the civil disobedience movement, analysts and journalists around the country went crazy and termed it as the biggest blunder of Imran's political career.

However, almost all of these intellectuals have failed to see the case that Imran Khan has built for his mass movement. In order to explain the rationale for the movement, one needs to first understand the concept of Odious Debt.

Odious Debt:

In international law, Odious Debt or illegitimate debt is defined as:
National debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation. According to International Law, such a debt is not enforceable upon the state and are considered as personal debts of the regime/government that incurred these debts. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.
The concept of Odious Debt was formalized by Alexander Nahum Sack, a Russian Legal Theorist. The basis of Sack's legal formalization were precedents such as the repudiation of Mexican debts incurred by Emperor Maximillian's regime and the denial by the United States of Cuban liability for debts incurred by the Spanish Colonial regime.

According to Sack:
When a despotic/dictatorial regime contracts a debt, not for the needs or in the interests of the state, but rather to strengthen itself, to suppress a popular insurrection, etc, this debt is odious for the people of the entire state. This debt does not bind the nation; it is a debt of the regime, a personal debt contracted by the ruler, and consequently it falls with the demise of the regime. The reason why these odious debts cannot attach to the territory of the state is that they do not fulfil one of the conditions determining the lawfulness of State debts, namely that State debts must be incurred, and the proceeds used, for the needs and in the interests of the State. Odious debts, contracted and utilised for purposes which, to the lenders' knowledge, are contrary to the needs and the interests of the nation, are not binding on the nation – when it succeeds in overthrowing the government that contracted them – unless the debt is within the limits of real advantages that these debts might have afforded. The lenders have committed a hostile act against the people, they cannot expect a nation which has freed itself of a despotic regime to assume these odious debts, which are the personal debts of the ruler.
Ecuador Debt WriteOff in 2008:

In 2008 Rafael Correa, President of the Republic of Ecuador, declared that much of Ecuador's $3.9 billion in foreign debt was illegitimate odious debt that was contracted by corrupt and despotic prior regimes. Ecuador managed to successfully reduce the price of foreign debt letters significantly before it paid off the remaining debt.

Imran Khan's Masterclass Against Nawaz Sharif That The Entire Nation Failed To Understand:

As soon as Imran Khan announced his Civil Disobedience movement the entire opposition and twitterati erupted into a tirade of jokes asking questions such as, how would PTI supporters not pay GST on milk, bread and other groceries. Or that if they wont pay the utility bills the utility services would be disconnected and so on.However, none of these so-called intellectuals were able to understand that what this Civil Disobedience movement is aiming to do is declare Nawaz regime a dictatorial regime and hence render all foreign debts that the regime would contract as unenforceable. As, I have already explained that a debt becomes illegitimate if a) the regime that contracts it is despotic and/or dictatorial and b) it was not spent on the betterment of the nation.

The entire long march is based on the premise that Nawaz Sharif and his party rigged the 2013 General elections and hence the regime is dictatorial and illegitimate. Before announcing the Civil Disobedience movement Imran Khan went into elaborate details of how the Sharif has previously used foreign debt to fill his coffers. What Imran was trying to do here was to establish a case that the foreign debts which this regime would incur would not be spent on the nation but would rather be laundered out of the country to power the business of the Sharif dynasty.

In simpler words Imran has told the entire world and specially the foreign lenders aka (IMF, World Bank and Asian Development Bank) that any loans incurred by the Sharif regime would not be enforceable on the future governments of Pakistan. To make it abundantly clear to our intellectual elite, Imran is telling the foreign lenders that if he ever came to power, he wont pay back the loans that the Sharif regime would borrow. This means that the foreign lenders has only one option left before them and that is to decline all future loans to the Sharif regime. Since, the Sharif regime relies heavily on foreign lending to finance its budget, the move would cripple the government and will bring it down to its knees without any bloodletting on the streets.

I once read a quotation that Brilliance hits a target that no one can hit, Genius hits a target that no one can see.

Imran's masterstroke against Sharif is such an act of genius that the entire nation is unable to see the target that it has hit. All that PTI and its horde of social media jihadi's now need to do is explain this to the entire nation that:

Since, we consider the Sharif regime as illegitimate, all foreign debts that it would incur would be illegitimate odious debt and hence would not be paid by the future Pakistani governments.

This is the silver lining

 

[Crypto]

 

[SBD-3]

 

[Major Sam]

View attachment 43990

a big lie?

 

[That Guy]

Actually it's other way around. Any system democratic, Comunist, Khlifah anything can work, if they able to fix Justice.

But again, Where IK is doing justice while not obeying the Law? How Justice will prevail if the people like Musharaf, IK, NS, Zardari, Altaf will keep breaking the Law? If system itself gets disintegrate how exactly justice will prevail?

Justice will come when the fix the system, as long as the system is broken, no justice can be had. IK has good intentions, but he's breaking a system that is trying to fix itself.

 

[Finer]

So Imran khan is involved with TTP? Gullu Butt is the citizen of Pakistan. Right now, he is released on bail; not off the hook. Pakistani Supreme Court will punish him if he is proven guilty.

I don't like where Imran Khan is going with. Surrending Gullu Butt to TTP now? Despite of what Gullu Butt did in Lahore, one thing for sure that if he is given powers with police forces to fight TTP, he will crush TTP, Allahu Alim. Now, that is the sight i want to see.

Killing khawarji groups [ISIS/TTP] is the rewarding for any Muslim. Anyone who kill/slaughter TTP/ISIS aka khawarji groups will have their sins forgiven and if they get killed by khawarji groups, will be rewarded in Ever-Lasting Beautiful Paradise in according to Authentic Hadiths, Allahu Alim.

Let me get this straight; Imran khan is asking to surrender Gullu Butt to khawarji groups now? Pakistan is at war against TTP. I didn't expect this from Imran Khan; not after what happened recently regarding attack on Karachi Airport - never mind the fact of having killed more than 50,000 civilians and counting, Allahu Alim.

 

[That Guy]

Having gone through Pakistani justice system, seen and experienced corruption at every level - if we don't make drastic changes nothing will change for another century.

A country where Law minster is caught on TV receiving bribe on behalf of CM; and not a single word is uttered against it. I am sorry to say nothing will change.

I disagree. Foolishly bringing drastic changes in a short period of time will only do more harm than good. If it takes a century, then let it. No democracy achieved what is has over a few years, it has taken decades to centuries to do so, and Pakistan has only really started taking it's first steps down that path.

 

[Crypto]

I disagree. Foolishly bringing drastic changes in a short period of time will only do more harm than good. If it takes a century, then let it. No democracy achieved what is has over a few years, it has taken decades to centuries to do so, and Pakistan has only really started taking it's first steps down that path.

China, Malaysia are just fee examples to show centuries are not needed.
Our issue is not democracy but those running the system.
Corrupt tyrants