Political Columns

[Sheikh Rauf]

What choice India left for us once they started precise aerial and artillery campaigns while PA sit idle and let the men die for their adventures ?

Our supply line was affected. We didn't had means to protect it from aerial strikes coz PAF wasn't allowed to engage with IAF. Read Kaiser tufail article on the dismal affairs of kargil war.

we had a good choice not to leave the hills india took same way some part of our Glaciers we cud have make buffer zone... mujahdeen didnt lose one single hill they left to capture main ones so they cud effect their supply line and they did. why our supply line effected its cuz we didnt go further to sustain on hill in peace time even harder forget about war.. once they started the operation they sud have face the consiquences either gain or lose this stale mate is dangerous for all of us cud lead to fight anytime..
our army fighters had done termendous work but political part was on losing end bunch of losers they bring with their selection so called election.... what they cud provide to our nation other than feeding their manhoos auladain and looting our money..

 

[Bratva]

we had a good choice not to leave the hills india took same way some part of our Glaciers we cud have make buffer zone... mujahdeen didnt lose one single hill they left to capture main ones so they cud effect their supply line and they did. why our supply line effected its cuz we didnt go further to sustain on hill in peace time even harder forget about war.. once they started the operation they sud have face the consiquences either gain or lose this stale mate is dangerous for all of us cud lead to fight anytime..
our army fighters had done termendous work but political part was on losing end bunch of losers they bring with their selection so called election.... what they cud provide to our nation other than feeding their manhoos auladain and looting our money..

Seriously, you should read about the conflict from neutral sources and watch videos of IAF strikes on pakistani positions and supply lines. This propaganda of politician loosing kargil war is getting old.

The PA affected their supply lines as long as IAF weren't pushed into conflict. PA was without PAF cover. Pray tell how would they have made gains without aerial cover or something to protect them from IAF?

 

[Psychic]

we had a good choice not to leave the hills india took same way some part of our Glaciers we cud have make buffer zone... mujahdeen didnt lose one single hill they left to capture main ones so they cud effect their supply line and they did. why our supply line effected its cuz we didnt go further to sustain on hill in peace time even harder forget about war.. once they started the operation they sud have face the consiquences either gain or lose this stale mate is dangerous for all of us cud lead to fight anytime..
our army fighters had done termendous work but political part was on losing end bunch of losers they bring with their selection so called election.... what they cud provide to our nation other than feeding their manhoos auladain and looting our money..

How long could any one fight on a nutrition of grass and insects with limited ammunition?
Many of our posts and peaks were isolated, with no means of supply and reinforcements.

 

[syedali73]

 

[syedali73]

What choice India left for us once they started precise aerial and artillery campaigns while PA sit idle and let the men die for their adventures ?

Our supply line was affected. We didn't had means to protect it from aerial strikes coz PAF wasn't allowed to engage with IAF. Read Kaiser tufail article on the dismal affairs of kargil war.

Pakistan has accepted India's right over Kargil as per Shimla agreement. These peaks are on the Indian side of LOC hence IAF was bombarding her 'own' territory whereas PAF could do nothing otherwise the conflict would have escalated and turned into a full fledge war. I do not think Musharraf deserves to be tried on Lal Masjid or Bugti murder case, but he does deserve every bit to be tried and hanged for how he and three of his cronies made finest of our men to die in vain.

 

[IrbiS]

 

[Psychic]

 

[Green Arrow]

@Horus @Irfan Baloch @DESERT FIGHTER @Bratva @syedali73 @xyxmt @Devil Soul @Jf Thunder @Psychic

 

[Green Arrow]

@Horus @Irfan Baloch @IrbiS @syedali73 @xyxmt @Junaid B @save_ghenda @SBD-3 @Jf Thunder @Muhammad Omar @rockstar08

 

[syedali73]

@A.Rafay @Ahmad1996 @airmarshal @Akheilos @Armstrong @arushbhai @AstanoshKhan @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @balixd @batmannow @Bilal. @Bratva @chauvunist @Crypto @Dr. Stranglove @Evil Flare @EyanKhan @Fahad Khan 2 @GIANTsasquatch @graphican @Green Arrow @Guleen Ahmed @HRK @Jazzbot @Junaid B @Jzaib @Khalidr @khawaja07 @KURUMAYA @Leader @Luftwaffe @Marshmallow @mr42O @Muhammad Omar @nomi007 @Pakistani shaheens @Pakistanisage @pak-marine @Peaceful Civilian @pkuser2k12 @@Pukhtoon @PWFI @raazh @Rafael @Rashid Mahmood @RescueRanger @Saifkhan12 @Sedqal @SHAMK9 @Spy Master @Stealth @Strike X @SUPARCO @sur @Tameem @TankMan @Tayyab1796 @@Zarvan @Norwegian @Developereo @Indus Falcon @Secur @قناص

 

[syedali73]

The 2nd column, on Kargil, needs some input from seniors. Why a majority of us are not aware of this side of the story or the columnist has spiced things up?

@Horus @Manticore @fatman @MastanKhan @Oscar @Secur @Slav Defence @Bratva @TankMan @Gufi @RescueRanger @HRK @Indus Falcon @That Guy @fatman17 @Armstrong @Windjammer @araz @Jango @waz @Jungibaaz

 

[Secur]

The 2nd column, on Kargil, needs some input from seniors. Why a majority of us are not aware of this side of the story or the columnist has spiced things up?

@Horus @Manticore @fatman @MastanKhan @Oscar @Secur @Slav Defence @Bratva @TankMan @Gufi @RescueRanger @HRK @Indus Falcon @That Guy @fatman17

There's a book "Witness to Blunder" detailing the Kargil war and overestimation/oversimplifications of the military's top brass (or more importantly as it calls it - the group of four Generals). I read it a long time ago, it provides detailed story of encounters with sarcastic comments in between making for an interesting read. The credibility of the work isn't in question because of its citations of sources within military. One thing that it makes very clear at the start of the book that the political leadership of Pakistan (NS and whoever was with him) was only notified after the war had already begun for obvious reasons and Musharraf/PA wasn't even remotely close to winning that conflict due to his unrealistic planning/analysis of the whole situation, application of a former plan in another time period (originally planned during Zia's period) and no consideration for logistical support but mere "optimistic hope" that Indians wouldn't act and try to dislodge just because the Pakistanis (Northern Light infantry soldiers) would have been there for quite sometime, by the time the Indians actually realize their presence in the area (its not uncommon for both PA and IA to climb down to much lower position before the harsh winter starts). With further addition that apart from the land forces, the air force and navy wasn't even notified and brought into confidence about the whole situation. No amount of rationalization and nationalist bravado would change the fact that we made a colossal blunder, lost brave good men (who kept fighting without any food, reinforcements to the very end) and accomplished nothing. Except for further International isolation and a decrease in the support for our stand on Kashmir. You aren't aware of this story because we don't believe in introspection but moving on. Or as locals would tell you, itna time nhi hai ke sochen samjhen (there's not enough time to think and ponder). But since I see the silver lining in everything. Ok we might have gained a few peaks.

@syedali73 Not what you expected, I guess? That is the bitter truth of the rivalry between political and military leadership that neither trusts the other. And well both ingest a little known sedative of selfinteresti-pam. The effects become noticeable within seconds of administration, the dose response curve is low and it has a high half life. Acts on the national interests receptors and inhibit its action by competitive binding

 

[MastanKhan]

The 2nd column, on Kargil, needs some input from seniors. Why a majority of us are not aware of this side of the story or the columnist has spiced things up?

@Horus @Manticore @fatman @MastanKhan @Oscar @Secur @Slav Defence @Bratva @TankMan @Gufi @RescueRanger @HRK @Indus Falcon @That Guy @fatman17 @Armstrong @Windjammer @araz @Jango @waz @Jungibaaz

Hi,

My brothers says that him and Gen Musharaf were sitting across the table talking to each other---he says " Mian Sahib---I gave him complete detail of the operation----I told him everything about the operation---he gave a go ahead "----" now he is denying it ".

I told my brother Musharraf is right---Nawaz is bi polar----. He only choses to listen to what he wants to----and he choses to forget what is not favorable to him---he is a gutless coward---he has 'selective memory'.

My brother has known Musharraf for a long time and never found him to be misleading at that time.

 

[Slav Defence]

The 2nd column, on Kargil, needs some input from seniors. Why a majority of us are not aware of this side of the story or the columnist has spiced things up?

@Horus @Manticore @fatman @MastanKhan @Oscar @Secur @Slav Defence @Bratva @TankMan @Gufi @RescueRanger @HRK @Indus Falcon @That Guy @fatman17 @Armstrong @Windjammer @araz @Jango @waz @Jungibaaz

Respected Sir,
The post itself is self-explanatory.I don't find much spice in 2nd column,the first one is looks more like of hype created.
Regarding the Kargil scenario,I believe that it clearly expresses the main cause of failure:Lack of trust between civil regime and military's top brass and the reason behind it is difference of opinion due to difference of environment and background,albeit such differences can be seen in any country's infrastructure-corrupted politicians vs patriotic personnel.Yet still,we wonder as if what is the root cause of such difference of opinion?
I say the main cause is that our foreign policy does not coincide with regional interests,plus incapable politicians are given authority to design them.I have written The Echidna of terrorism consisting of three parts and in each part I kept on recalling my readers that main cause of failure is because of lack of trust between civil regime and military establishment.You can enjoy reading it here:

The Echidna of Terrorism: Final Chapter-Ultimate solution?

Coming back to Kargil situation,I will say that if Pakistan is willing to prevent such tragedy in future then it is essential to built a platform where both military's top brass as well as our tribunes must sit together and plan pro Pakistani strategies with mutual cooperation.
Regards

 

[syedali73]