Point 5353 in Pakistan's control Drass sector

[Awesome]

If you want to keep harping to resolutions signed by grand papa, then also include Bangladesh as a stake holder.

I want only one stakeholder. Kashmiris themselves. I'm willing to forego the resolutions if India agrees to let Kashmir go independent and we'll let AJK go independent as well.

Non-selfish peaceful solution. No more people have to die.

 

[desiman]

No actually RAW is not right since its not fighting the Pakistani soldiers in AJK, but its targeting Pakistani civilians all over Pakistan which are not disputed territories like AJK is.

Same thing, just playing with words there Asim lol We have lost countless civilians also to Pakistani sponsored terrorism, so its only fair we do the same to you. Like you said everything is fair in love and war and this is war for sure. A solution to Kashmir can only be reached when Pakistani sponsored terrorist are stopped being pushed accross the border, until then let the RAW do its work, dont disturb them lol By the looks of it, they are doing a fantastic job lol You cant beat the Indian mind my friend.

 

[SQ8]

Double standards are what both India and Pakistan and pretty much every nation in the world is known for. Double standards are simply another synonym for "whats better for me".

Are the attacks on Indian soldiers supported by the ISI.. yes.
Are the TTP supported by RAW.. yes.
It is right.. and wrong at the same time.
Whats a few hundred civilians to India and Pakistan??.. whats a few hundred soldiers.. In the long run.. to both the Indian and Pakistan establishment.. their nations must win..
There is a slight difference now, generally... where civillian deaths are concerned, Pakistan has suffered more..Mumbai was a horrible incident.. but person for person Pakistani's know more death than the indian.. and are less likely to be cautious of it. and Fearful, In the aftermath of 26/11 India was gripped by mass hysteria.. weeping etc. For us.. and I say this with deep sadness.. we hear "ten dead" on the news.. its.. usually "manhoos.. the times are bad" .. then the channel reverts to Indian Idol.
A general apathy towards life is common. However.. this should not be mistaken for a sign of weakness... since time has proven again and again..against a single threat.. we Pakistani's forget all the massive issues we have with each other and form a steel wall... probably the greatest asset to our nation that no one realizes.
Which is why.. as it seems the Indian's have realized it.. and are now seriously thinking of breaking this quality.. before using any further incidents to launch their "final" solution.

Till then.. Rahat fateh Ali khan and Pakistani kids are more than welcome on Amul Chote ustad.

 

[somebozo]

India had the pain in stomach for bengalis and a sense to come and liberate them. Similarly we have pain in our stomach for Kashmirs and an urgent sense to liberate them. When the time is right we will strike. Most of the Indian "fear factor" about jehadis and LeT is built up due to its own actions in east pakistan and creation of Mukhti Bahini. Now it fears that history will repeat itself in similar fashion but different players.

Kashmiri's know that the only country to come forward for this unconditional support would be Pakistan and very low probability of China.

 

[newman]

I want only one stakeholder. Kashmiris themselves. I'm willing to forego the resolutions if India agrees to let Kashmir go independent and we'll let AJK go independent as well.

Can't have it both ways. You want the resolutions implemented but on your terms.

Non-selfish peaceful solution. No more people have to die.

Have you ever thought what Bangladeshis have to say about Kashmir? After all in the early fighting when Pakistan was one, both E and W Pakistanis gave their blood fighting. Why forget them now? Non selfish?

 

[Awesome]

Can't have it both ways. You want the resolutions implemented but on your terms.



Have you ever thought what Bangladeshis have to say about Kashmir? After all in the early fighting when Pakistan was one, both E and W Pakistanis gave their blood fighting. Why forget them now? Non selfish?

Only one party matters - Kashmiris. Not Pakistanis, not Indians - not a made up party like Bangladesh.

 

[newman]

Only one party matters - Kashmiris. Not Pakistanis, not Indians - not a made up party like Bangladesh.

We are conveniently forgetting Bangladeshis because they have seen the writing on the wall and are busily building their own future. Don't know how their economy is shaped right now, but also don't remember them heading abroad looking for friends with fat wallets.

If Kashmiris are the only party and Pakistan genuinely believed so, then why did it interfere in the first place? Did you think they are incapable of standing up on their own?

For those that are interested Whither Pakistan? Growing Instability and Implications for India | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses a book on the Indo Pak relations 2020.

 

[Bull]

I want only one stakeholder. Kashmiris themselves. I'm willing to forego the resolutions if India agrees to let Kashmir go independent and we'll let AJK go independent as well.

Non-selfish peaceful solution. No more people have to die.

Kashmir for kashmiris, Baloch for Balochism Punjab for Punjabis...

India doesnt want foreigners to say what it has to do with its soverign terriotory.

 

[desiman]

Double standards are what both India and Pakistan and pretty much every nation in the world is known for. Double standards are simply another synonym for "whats better for me".

Are the attacks on Indian soldiers supported by the ISI.. yes.
Are the TTP supported by RAW.. yes.
It is right.. and wrong at the same time.
Whats a few hundred civilians to India and Pakistan??.. whats a few hundred soldiers.. In the long run.. to both the Indian and Pakistan establishment.. their nations must win..
There is a slight difference now, generally... where civillian deaths are concerned, Pakistan has suffered more..Mumbai was a horrible incident.. but person for person Pakistani's know more death than the indian.. and are less likely to be cautious of it. and Fearful, In the aftermath of 26/11 India was gripped by mass hysteria.. weeping etc. For us.. and I say this with deep sadness.. we hear "ten dead" on the news.. its.. usually "manhoos.. the times are bad" .. then the channel reverts to Indian Idol.
A general apathy towards life is common. However.. this should not be mistaken for a sign of weakness... since time has proven again and again..against a single threat.. we Pakistani's forget all the massive issues we have with each other and form a steel wall... probably the greatest asset to our nation that no one realizes.
Which is why.. as it seems the Indian's have realized it.. and are now seriously thinking of breaking this quality.. before using any further incidents to launch their "final" solution.

Till then.. Rahat fateh Ali khan and Pakistani kids are more than welcome on Amul Chote ustad.

Yup santro, you are so right, we are all about double standards my friend, our pain is pain but the other is nothing. We can justify someone else death but cannot tolerate one of our own. Human life it seems has to worth nowdays, everyone's death can be justified with some reason totally forgetting what the family of the loved one is going through. How selfish we have become in this world, we can do anything to save our own ego's. Very sad indeed, here we are talking about blowing each other up when we are all someone's sons and daughters. Hate clouds all our visions and im sorry but i think its even clouding mine today. What do you think is the solution santro ?

 

[Awesome]

We are conveniently forgetting Bangladeshis because they have seen the writing on the wall and are busily building their own future. Don't know how their economy is shaped right now, but also don't remember them heading abroad looking for friends with fat wallets.

If Kashmiris are the only party and Pakistan genuinely believed so, then why did it interfere in the first place? Did you think they are incapable of standing up on their own?

For those that are interested Whither Pakistan? Growing Instability and Implications for India | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses a book on the Indo Pak relations 2020.

Look, it has nothing to do with the issue, we won't kill your soldiers on the insistence of the Bangladeshis, we'll kill them because its the right thing to do in the absence of you rejecting the peaceful solution.

You have a choice. Take it or leave it.

 

[HAIDER]

Well, I been saying Karigl was not complete withdrawal....and this top 5353 ...is large size thorn for India. There are few more mountain tops, which Pakistani army never mention are still in Pakistan army control. Thats one of reason why Indian govt always talk about creating peace in Siachin and turn into nomans land.....If India had total control on Siachin, they would never talk....Like before uprising India always use lingering tactics for the peaceful resolution of Kashmir..

 

[KS]

Id like to disagree with what you are saying since I was there with an otherwise dissident brigadier back in 99 while this was going on, Who while criticizing the whole operation did praise it for landing us a few nuggets which we still hold.."peaks" is what he meant.
As far from the whole viewpoint to Leh is concerned, many of these peaks are still in areas which like always are so inhospitable that they have to be vacated for a month or so during the harsh seasons.
I dont have a map otherwise Id mark them for you since I remember them vividly from what I was shown.

And please type the meaning of LOC and then tell me if its meaning even seems coherent with the definition of border.
Kargil war was a massive strategic defeat ..there is NO doubting that fact and it does overshadow the that at one point in the war, before India escalated the conflict( it would have, had to happen..).. the NLI had Indian forces in Kashmir by the Jugular Vein and nuts..
Never underestimate the advantage of the high ground.
I have heard radio intercepts of Indian troops cursing their commanders to get them out of traps..others pleading and moaning for supplies. Ive seen still pictures of tens of convoys of Indian supply trucks blown to smithereens thanks to the wonderful Sony Mavica...and I do pity those poor fellows who were literally like ducks in an arena shootout..running helter skelter..hiding between burning trucks to escape bullets...most did not make it...
Before the escalation.. and the withdrawal. The tally was one of ours for twenty of yours, infact most Indian losses in that war were incurred on supply troops.. It was the severity of the situation that promoted the massive buildup.
Once the airstrikes began, Our troops took hits, .. and then.. when they had to withdraw.. they were massacred by Indian troops from the very peaks they once held.
I saw the troops and I saw the maps.. and the bodies first hand.. Id trust them more than your major.

Pakistani posters who r claiming a false victory..take a look here and understand y he is a TT..

Will another kargil be the last mistake?? very likely, but unlike before.. the consequences will be dire for both. Your arrogance betrays your ideas of giving Pakistan a Spanking as a wet dream.
It is deducible by a paper war alone that India will eventually gain the upper hand in a prolonged conventional war..But you seem to factor the nukes out every time in these rosy scenario's for India.
To believe that nobody in the chain of Pakistan's command will use them.. or that the Americans will prevent their use by some failsafe system.. is another bollywood concept you all seem to preach and hold dear.. an almost laughable and ironic concept that in whatever war with Pakistan ..India and its Citizens will come out unscathed and continue to enjoy Domino's 30 minutes or free offer.

yes dear....we dont forget u will use the nukes but if given the opportunity to do so.
Now dont start getting to my throats after this.
It is a sad reality of the subcontinent (india to a lesser extent) and (Pak to a greater extent) that wen it comes o nuclear weapons..America hand can be seen.
Even before the finger goes to the button there will be hugely enormous American pressure not to do so and a negotiated settlement will be forced upon us..(US not u alone.)

So It will be a conventional war with a 0.00001% of using nuke weapons.

And then even if u use them not all Indians will be dstroyed cos of our size but Pakistan...::

 

[Markus]

India has to choose plebiscite itself, that much is evident to us. Nobody can make India choose plebiscite unless they start attacking and killing Indian soldiers too. There are only two ways.

Pakistan is making things difficult for the Indian government.

How will the Indian government take 1.2 billion Indians in confidence to resolve the Kashmir issue even if it means where both parties accept a compromise in territorial terms?

With so much money invested and bloodshed everyday, accepting a compromise now will be disastrous for any Indian leadership.

No way out. There is going to be no dialogue until Pakistan stops infiltration.

I personally dont like wars but in the long term, a war may be the only solution OR alternately things continue as they currently are.

 

[newman]

Look, it has nothing to do with the issue, we won't kill your soldiers on the insistence of the Bangladeshis, we'll kill them because its the right thing to do in the absence of you rejecting the peaceful solution.

No Kashmir is not the problem. It is a symptom.

Pakistan can only keep itself together by casting itself as not-India. Some1 mentioned that the one thing that keeps Pakistanis together is fighting a demonized India.

You are fighting a loosing battle if you portray Pakistan with saintly intent. Any unbiased view of the recent history of these 2 nations will show that all these shenanigans are similar to that between siblings, which are naturally competing to show who is better.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistan is making things difficult for the Indian government.

How will the Indian government take 1.2 billion Indians in confidence to resolve the Kashmir issue even if it means where both parties accept a compromise in territorial terms?

With so much money invested and bloodshed everyday, accepting a compromise now will be disastrous for any Indian leadership.

No way out. There is going to be no dialogue until Pakistan stops infiltration.

I personally dont like wars but in the long term, a war may be the only solution OR alternately things continue as they currently are.

You should say sorry and apologize to the Kashmiri people for investing so much money and blood into their oppression not ask a medal for it. It makes you guys more horrible that you even did that on top of all the oppression you inflicted on the Kashmiris to begin with.

So thats no excuse.